Is The NRA Right to Teach Defensive Shooters to Retreat Before Enagaging?

[txradioguy]

In our post NRA: No 1911s or Revolvers in Carry Guard Training Classes, TTAG writer and Florida detective Luis Valdez revealed a new NRA training acronym: A.D.R.E. It stands for Avoid. De-escalate. Retreat. Engage. Well now . . .

Avoid? Of course. De-escalate? Absolutely! Retreat? Not necessarily.

First, that dictum assumes you can retreat. Second, it assumes that retreat is a sensible option. If you can’t retreat safely and/or doing so loses you a significant tactical advantage (sometimes it’s better to engage and then retreat, or as you retreat), it’s a really bad idea. Third, shouldn’t retreat be a subset of “avoid”? And fourth . . .

The NRA’s advice to retreat plays straight into the hands of gun control advocates who oppose Stand Your Ground Laws. And it could be used against you in a court of law. Sir, you were trained by the NRA to retreat before shooting an attacker. Why didn’t you?

Am I wrong here? And if I’m not, what would be a better acronym?

[I propose MACHINE GUN. Make yourself ready, Assume anyone could turn into a threat at a moment’s notice, Carry everyday, Have the chamber loaded, Ignore people who give you a hard time about carrying, Never hang out with stupid people, Evaluate your options, Go for your gun if you have to, Understand death may be inevitable and Never tell the cops anything (other than vital info on the perp) without a lawyer.]

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/06/robert-farago/is-the-nra-right-to-teach-defensive-shooters-to-retreat-caparms-question-of-the-day/

[Taxcontrol]

My opinion only

In general, the civilian population is taught to retreat to safety or cover if possible.  This is for two reasons.  First, the VAST majority of people do not have the presence of mind or "mental on switch" to go into full on aggressive mode.  Second, training them to get out of the way and to cover improves their personal odds of survival.  It also means that from the cover position, the individual will then have the few moments it takes for them to assess the situation and PROPERLY engage.

However, to your point, those of us (I am a former Infantryman) with combat training and experience, who can engage right away - should. 

[txradioguy]

My opinion only

In general, the civilian population is taught to retreat to safety or cover if possible.  This is for two reasons.  First, the VAST majority of people do not have the presence of mind or "mental on switch" to go into full on aggressive mode.  Second, training them to get out of the way and to cover improves their personal odds of survival.  It also means that from the cover position, the individual will then have the few moments it takes for them to assess the situation and PROPERLY engage.

However, to your point, those of us (I am a former Infantryman) with combat training and experience, who can engage right away - should.

Yeah I guess that's the fight or flight instinct they talk about people having.  First instinct is self preservation.

It did however strike me as odd that an organization that promotes self defense and protection via firearms would tell someone who has a gun to back away from a situation where it could be used to stop an incident.

But I guess that's also the 19 years of Army in me talking too.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Ehhhh... I don't much good would come from the NRA teaching yahoos to be aggressive with firearms. You have way too much faith in the general public.

[ABX]

My opinion only

In general, the civilian population is taught to retreat to safety or cover if possible.  This is for two reasons.  First, the VAST majority of people do not have the presence of mind or "mental on switch" to go into full on aggressive mode.  Second, training them to get out of the way and to cover improves their personal odds of survival.  It also means that from the cover position, the individual will then have the few moments it takes for them to assess the situation and PROPERLY engage.

However, to your point, those of us (I am a former Infantryman) with combat training and experience, who can engage right away - should.

I agree. I am not a fan of the 'machine gun' approach they suggest. 'Feeling' threatened does not mean you are actually under threat. If safely possible, the 'retreat' option allows one to clearly identify the situation and avoid escalation of the situation. Engaging should be the very last resort in extreme cases. I am absolutely certain, most who promote the 'machine gun' approach have at most, put holes in paper targets or in video games.  When there is an actual human at the other end of the barrel, nerves are high, adrenaline is high, and judgment is clouded. If you are able to retreat, that allows you to control yourself and the situation first - clear judgment equals clear action. 

[rodamala]

The last N in M.A.C.H.I.N.E. G.U.N. is critical, much like the 3rd "S" in "3S".

[driftdiver]

I agree. I am not a fan of the 'machine gun' approach they suggest. 'Feeling' threatened does not mean you are actually under threat. If safely possible, the 'retreat' option allows one to clearly identify the situation and avoid escalation of the situation. Engaging should be the very last resort in extreme cases. I am absolutely certain, most who promote the 'machine gun' approach have at most, put holes in paper targets or in video games.  When there is an actual human at the other end of the barrel, nerves are high, adrenaline is high, and judgment is clouded. If you are able to retreat, that allows you to control yourself and the situation first - clear judgment equals clear action.

I'd rather retreat when possible then spend $30,000 defending myself in court.  There are times when retreat isn't possible and thats when the stand my ground law kicks in.  Without that law anyone who uses a gun for self-defense has a huge target on them for prosecution.

[txradioguy]

I'd rather retreat when possible then spend $30,000 defending myself in court.  There are times when retreat isn't possible and thats when the stand my ground law kicks in.  Without that law anyone who uses a gun for self-defense has a huge target on them for prosecution.

And that's why they have organizations like USCCA to provide legal defense and insurance in those times when stand your ground doesn't automatically kick in.

[driftdiver]

And that's why they have organizations like USCCA to provide legal defense and insurance in those times when stand your ground doesn't automatically kick in.

Right, I just don't agree that people should use deadly force because they can get away with it.   It should be a last resort.    Its also highly dependent on circumstances.

[Cripplecreek]

I agree. I am not a fan of the 'machine gun' approach they suggest. 'Feeling' threatened does not mean you are actually under threat. If safely possible, the 'retreat' option allows one to clearly identify the situation and avoid escalation of the situation. Engaging should be the very last resort in extreme cases. I am absolutely certain, most who promote the 'machine gun' approach have at most, put holes in paper targets or in video games.  When there is an actual human at the other end of the barrel, nerves are high, adrenaline is high, and judgment is clouded. If you are able to retreat, that allows you to control yourself and the situation first - clear judgment equals clear action.

Bingo. Having time to assess the threat will always be preferable to being forced to react to an unknown. That doesn't equal a duty to retreat but may be the wise choice.

[txradioguy]

Right, I just don't agree that people should use deadly force because they can get away with it.   It should be a last resort.    Its also highly dependent on circumstances.

No I agree with you on that.  That right there gives people who do use it because they have no other option a bad name and lumps us in with the gang bangers and other thugs.

What's scary is it's highly dependent on the judge and/or the DA where you live.

[EC]

To answer the question in the title:

Yes. The NRA is completely right in teaching people to retreat if possible, engage if they can't. Good to see they're getting back to one of their main strengths - firearms education.