A single-payer system

[pjohns]

Why don't we simply cut to the chase?

It is my considered view that most defenders of ObamaCare really want a singer-payer system (i.e. UHC--as in Canada, and throughout just about all of Europe).

That is an intellectually reasonable position.

I disagree with it.

But it is intellectually reasonable, nonetheless.

The enthusiasm for ObamaCare, however--on the part of those who would really prefer UHC--is not really intellectually sustainable.

To use ObamaCare as merely a stalking horse for UHC simply does not work.

Do those supporters of UHC--and doubtless, there are tens of millions of these throughout the US--not see that it would be much more intellectually honest to simply argue the case for what they really desire, rather than hanging, by their fingernails, onto a failure?

So, then, please let the real debate begin...

[Applewood]

Obamacare was designed to ultimately lead to a single payer/socialist/government-run health care.  This is what the designers wanted, and ultimately, what our representatives in government want.  Make no mistake -- both parties want a full-on government health care system.  With Obamacare, they all got a taste of what it would be like to have power over life and death -- which is what we will have under a government system.  Now that Obamacare is failing, they are not about to go back to the old system or make any meaningful changes to the current system that will make it sustainable.  They will just run Obamacare into the ground and when it's dead or at least on life support, they will declare that only the government in Washington knows what's best for us and then trot out a government-run scheme. 

Any supporter of Obamacare who tells you otherwise is lying to you.  And that includes your elected representatives.  When I was a lass, I was taught our elected officials were our employees.  They were supposed to represent us and do what we tell them.  That hasn't been true for years, if it ever was.  They are our lords and masters, and we've let them be.  Now they want complete dominion over our lives, and if we don't rise up and get rid of them, soon they will have it.

[pjohns]

Now that Obamacare is failing, [our elected representatives] are not about to go back to the old system or make any meaningful changes to the current system that will make it sustainable.

True. 

On Fox News, Charles Krauthammer recently noted that ObamaCare is now on the verge of collapse; and that its demise will leave only two theoretical possibilities:  either a return to pre-2010 healthcare in America, or a single-payer system.

He further noted that once the American people are given an entitlement, it is politically impossible to take it away from them.

So pre-2010 healthcare is nothing more than theoretical.

[INVAR]

Obamacare was designed to ultimately lead to a single payer/socialist/government-run health care.  This is what the designers wanted, and ultimately, what our representatives in government want.  Make no mistake -- both parties want a full-on government health care system.

Exactly correct.

ObamaCare was the camel's nose under the tent to imposing Single Payer - in fact it;s proponents and Obama himself have said as much to loyal audiences.

ObamaCare is the wrecking ball to tear the entire health care insurance system down to ashes, employ the Coward-Piven method of imploding it and thus create misery across the board so the public cries out for salvation and Single Payer - government-run healthcare.

Once that officially happens, we have officially surrendered any and all notions of liberty in this country - because that is the key that gives the federal Beast access to every bit of information, lifestyle and habits about you - and they can begin dictating your life - because the public pays for your health care.

It's about imposing a meddlesome tyranny that will outstrip any oppressive government ever to have come into existence before.

[Joe Wooten]

You want to see how a federally run single payer system would look and operate?

Look at the VA system......

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

You want to see how a federally run single payer system would look and operate?

Look at the VA system......

Yep!

Do you see people running to the VA for healthcare?

[Cripplecreek]

ObamaCare is the wrecking ball to tear the entire health care insurance system down to ashes, employ the Coward-Piven method of imploding it and thus create misery across the board so the public cries out for salvation and Single Payer - government-run healthcare.

Actually it looks to me like the insurance companies are willing participants in becoming pseudo public agencies that will be funded by the force of taxation. Its why Josh Kushner (Jared's brother) started an insurance company with the passage of Obamacare.

Personally I think insurance is a primary driver of the cost increases in health care. When I was born in 1964 there was very little employer provided health insurance for blue collar workers yet the cost of health care was far more manageable. My hospital birth and stay in the hospital cost under $100 dollars which was around 2 weeks pay for my dad who was a garbage man at the time.

I don't know about doctors, hospitals and clinics in outlying areas but our for profit hospital/health care system (Henry Ford Allegiance) has exploded and is fast becoming the largest employer in Jackson county Michigan if it isn't already. I never thought I would work anywhere near health care but here I am being trained to work around MRI machines (they can hurt you bad), bio-hazardous materials etc.

[GrouchoTex]

I heard a guy on the Michael Berry show, on the way home last night.
He's been the radio show's go-to guy on all things Government healthcare related.
I wish I could remember his name.

He had a dire prediction.

He said, with Obamacare, we'd arrive at single payer in 5 years.
With Trumpcare, we'd postpone that all of three years, going single payer in 8.

His logic was that, the genie is now out of the bottle, and no politician on either side, wants to lose votes by going back to 2008, by repealing it all, and starting over.

Although he gave AHCA a bit of a higher grade than he did ACA, he is no fan of either.

[INVAR]

I heard a guy on the Michael Berry show, on the way home last night.
He's been the radio show's go-to guy on all things Government healthcare related.
I wish I could remember his name.

He had a dire prediction.

He said, with Obamacare, we'd arrive at single payer in 5 years.
With Trumpcare, we'd postpone that all of three years, going single payer in 8.

His logic was that, the genie is now out of the bottle, and no politician on either side, wants to lose votes by going back to 2008, by repealing it all, and starting over.

Although he gave AHCA a bit of a higher grade than he did ACA, he is no fan of either.

ObamaCare was the final nail in the coffin of the Republic.  Once government had it's nose under the tent, it could only grow and encompass and devour all in order to feed itself the constituencies it now held the power of life/death and healthcare over.

Only Socialism can massage such a beast and keep it violable to the point the masses do not attempt to burn it to the ground.

Because at this point - that is the only way we are stopping where we are headed.