Author Topic: Here are the 66 programs eliminated in Trump's budget  (Read 7221 times)

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Online Free Vulcan

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Re: Here are the 66 programs eliminated in Trump's budget
« Reply #50 on: May 24, 2017, 06:14:41 pm »
Sounds like a lot of cuts to programs that funnel money to liberal orgs.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Here are the 66 programs eliminated in Trump's budget
« Reply #51 on: May 24, 2017, 06:27:05 pm »
I am by no means an economic expert (far from it).... but is it possible that even 'this' small/first attempt to reduce the debt may actually help to spur and jump-start our economy out of the stagnant state it has been in for the past eight plus years?   I would think so.
The Obama administration had an oil boom going on with plenty of money going around. Smaller businesses were held back by the ACA from expanding, other businesses as well. They fought the oil boom every inch of the way, and despite them, the price of gasoline is half what it was. That should have spurred growth, too, but the ACA was in the way.
People lost insurance, were penalized for not having insurance, businesses didn't expand, and those who kept insurance had to pay more out for the same things they used to have covered for less, so the insurance/healthcare sector sucked up the seed money for the economy getting out of the doldrums. Hopefully, we can over come that if Congress will shut down that giant sucking sound (It isn't from the swamp draining).
I'm beginning to see a pattern there, in what might be holding the economy back some...
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Here are the 66 programs eliminated in Trump's budget
« Reply #52 on: May 24, 2017, 06:31:55 pm »
As impressive as the cuts seem to be, $26.7 billion is still just a drop in the budget bucket, unfortunately.

@Bigun
@Hoodat

Got to start somewhere.  Just taking a step in the right direction makes me shiver with anticipation.


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Offline XenaLee

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Re: Here are the 66 programs eliminated in Trump's budget
« Reply #53 on: May 24, 2017, 06:39:42 pm »
The Obama administration had an oil boom going on with plenty of money going around. Smaller businesses were held back by the ACA from expanding, other businesses as well. They fought the oil boom every inch of the way, and despite them, the price of gasoline is half what it was. That should have spurred growth, too, but the ACA was in the way.
People lost insurance, were penalized for not having insurance, businesses didn't expand, and those who kept insurance had to pay more out for the same things they used to have covered for less, so the insurance/healthcare sector sucked up the seed money for the economy getting out of the doldrums. Hopefully, we can over come that if Congress will shut down that giant sucking sound (It isn't from the swamp draining).
I'm beginning to see a pattern there, in what might be holding the economy back some...

I've been seeing that same pattern (deliberate sabotage of the economy) from the Obama administration for the past eight years .... and before that by the Democratic Party during George Bush's presidency.  So yeah, the ACA is probably going to keep us from recovering.  Especially if/when the GOPe solution to the ACA is a watered down version.   Depressing....
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Re: Here are the 66 programs eliminated in Trump's budget
« Reply #54 on: May 24, 2017, 07:02:45 pm »
How do they eliminate the risk analysis while keeping the National Flood Insurance Program?
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Re: Here are the 66 programs eliminated in Trump's budget
« Reply #55 on: May 24, 2017, 07:08:19 pm »
That's not exactly correct.  Here in Florida at least, if a development encroaches into a flood area then an equal volume of flood area must be added somewhere else that is directly connected to the flood area that is destroyed.  Typically that means that a treatment pond will be made with additional volume, but sometimes one flod area is filled in, say on the south side, but more flood area is added on say the west side.

@RoosGirl
That helps, but doesn't totally offset the problem.  Development increases flooding even when not in flood areas, by preventing infiltration to groundwater (so all the water runs off to streams), and making the delivery of rainfall to surfacewater bodies faster (which leads to higher peaks, rather than more gradual [and lower] peaking).
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Offline Emjay

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Re: Here are the 66 programs eliminated in Trump's budget
« Reply #56 on: May 24, 2017, 07:08:48 pm »
I've been seeing that same pattern (deliberate sabotage of the economy) from the Obama administration for the past eight years .... and before that by the Democratic Party during George Bush's presidency.  So yeah, the ACA is probably going to keep us from recovering.  Especially if/when the GOPe solution to the ACA is a watered down version.   Depressing....

Thanks, guys.

I started out feeling good about some of the budget cuts but ten minutes over here .....
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Offline thackney

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Re: Here are the 66 programs eliminated in Trump's budget
« Reply #57 on: May 24, 2017, 07:26:32 pm »
Just cover "pre-existing conditions".

The problem I have is conditions significantly change with major construction and it is difficult for any individual to tell the impact of the change.

I'm near the end of a 800 mile river with the expansion of greater Houston coming my way.  Like the USDA and FDA, they provide information on the risks to others created by companies and even local governments.  The building of levees and dams hundreds of miles away can greatly impact tens or hundreds of thousand people and their homes.

In this type of area, flood maps greatly change.  A single new major subdivision commonly build levees that change the flood risks over 10 square miles and indirectly impacts another 25~50 square miles.

Quote
I'm all for cutting the size and expense of Government, and laud any attempt to do so (with the possible exception of core, Constitutionally mandated functions). Why, that's a Conservative principle (The government which governs best, governs least.)

The question is how much of this will come out of the Congressional inverter as actual cuts, and not 'Democrat math". (Where the budget is to be increased 100%, that's cut to a 50% increase, and sold as a 50% cut.)

When it's all done, how many 5th generation fighters, ships, and submarines will that build?

I'm for cutting government as well.  But the combination of providing the insurance while discontinuing the risk assessment set up the taxpayer to cover unknown future losses.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 07:27:38 pm by thackney »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Here are the 66 programs eliminated in Trump's budget
« Reply #58 on: May 24, 2017, 07:32:43 pm »
Thanks, guys.

I started out feeling good about some of the budget cuts but ten minutes over here .....
See? I knew we could cheer you up!

Despite that damper on growth, I think we will see some recovery unless someone does something to kill it. First, do no harm, and all that.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline thackney

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Re: Here are the 66 programs eliminated in Trump's budget
« Reply #59 on: May 24, 2017, 07:41:35 pm »
Thanks, guys.

I started out feeling good about some of the budget cuts but ten minutes over here .....

66 programs proposed to be cut and I have concerns with one of them.  Concerns of wasted taxpayer money by keeping the insurance but eliminating the risk analysis.

In other words, a pretty darn good list.

Now lets work on the few rough edges.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Here are the 66 programs eliminated in Trump's budget
« Reply #60 on: May 24, 2017, 07:52:37 pm »
I'm for cutting government as well.  But the combination of providing the insurance while discontinuing the risk assessment set up the taxpayer to cover unknown future losses.
I agree. The "preexisting conditions" crack was a poke at the ACA, too, which is already an example of where that sort of policy can go.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Here are the 66 programs eliminated in Trump's budget
« Reply #61 on: May 24, 2017, 10:10:53 pm »
@RoosGirl
That helps, but doesn't totally offset the problem.  Development increases flooding even when not in flood areas, by preventing infiltration to groundwater (so all the water runs off to streams), and making the delivery of rainfall to surfacewater bodies faster (which leads to higher peaks, rather than more gradual [and lower] peaking).

No, sorry, that is not correct.  When you add impervious area (buildings, paving, etc), at least here in Florida, I cannot speak for other states, you have to take that area into account for both treatment and attenuation.  Meaning, you have to hold that water for a certain amount of time.  In high infiltration areas, like the Wekiva basin, you additionally have to account for the water that would normally infiltrate into the ground and account for it in your stormwater treatment for the site.

Because of our obvious water/flooding problems, Florida was ahead of the curve in requiring treatment and attenuation, but I think most states have pretty much caught up by now with their stormwater regulations, spurred on by the EPA generating stricter requirements.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Here are the 66 programs eliminated in Trump's budget
« Reply #62 on: May 24, 2017, 10:15:29 pm »
No, sorry, that is not correct.  When you add impervious area (buildings, paving, etc), at least here in Florida, I cannot speak for other states, you have to take that area into account for both treatment and attenuation.  Meaning, you have to hold that water for a certain amount of time.  In high infiltration areas, like the Wekiva basin, you additionally have to account for the water that would normally infiltrate into the ground and account for it in your stormwater treatment for the site.

Because of our obvious water/flooding problems, Florida was ahead of the curve in requiring treatment and attenuation, but I think most states have pretty much caught up by now with their stormwater regulations, spurred on by the EPA generating stricter requirements.

So what! Cut it anyway!  Do you imagine that the states can't figure out where they have flooding problems without the fedgov?
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Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Here are the 66 programs eliminated in Trump's budget
« Reply #63 on: May 24, 2017, 10:19:11 pm »
The problem I have is conditions significantly change with major construction and it is difficult for any individual to tell the impact of the change.

I'm near the end of a 800 mile river with the expansion of greater Houston coming my way.  Like the USDA and FDA, they provide information on the risks to others created by companies and even local governments.  The building of levees and dams hundreds of miles away can greatly impact tens or hundreds of thousand people and their homes.

In this type of area, flood maps greatly change.  A single new major subdivision commonly build levees that change the flood risks over 10 square miles and indirectly impacts another 25~50 square miles.

I'm for cutting government as well.  But the combination of providing the insurance while discontinuing the risk assessment set up the taxpayer to cover unknown future losses.

I can't believe the state would allow an upstream dam/levee to be built that has a negative impact on anyone downstream.  Seems like that would just lead to a ton of lawsuits and insurance claims, not to mention possible loss of life.

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Here are the 66 programs eliminated in Trump's budget
« Reply #64 on: May 24, 2017, 10:26:10 pm »
So what! Cut it anyway!  Do you imagine that the states can't figure out where they have flooding problems without the fedgov?

I'm not really arguing one way or the other that this is within FedGov pervue.  Certainly any state could set up a program within some existing department to manage and maintain the FIRMs.  But, doing away with it completely makes no sense.  The information is absolutely needed for future safe development.

Offline DB

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Re: Here are the 66 programs eliminated in Trump's budget
« Reply #65 on: May 24, 2017, 10:36:28 pm »
I welcome virtually any cuts the federal government makes, particularly in areas where it has no constitutional authority being.

That being said these are not cuts until they actually become law. And we are far from that. I'll grant kudos when/if it actually happens.

Offline DB

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Re: Here are the 66 programs eliminated in Trump's budget
« Reply #66 on: May 24, 2017, 10:38:27 pm »
I agree. The "preexisting conditions" crack was a poke at the ACA, too, which is already an example of where that sort of policy can go.

Why is the federal government in the flood insurance business to begin with? And under what authority are they doing it?

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Re: Here are the 66 programs eliminated in Trump's budget
« Reply #67 on: May 24, 2017, 10:41:27 pm »
Why is the federal government in the flood insurance business to begin with? And under what authority are they doing it?

A most excellent question that would lead to a million similar ones should it ever be answered!
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 10:44:27 pm by Bigun »
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Here are the 66 programs eliminated in Trump's budget
« Reply #68 on: May 24, 2017, 10:45:35 pm »
Why is the federal government in the flood insurance business to begin with? And under what authority are they doing it?

The government is in the flood insurance business because insurance companies are not willing to sell flood insurance to people who live in flood plains.  The worst part of all is that once that person gets flooded, the government pays out all the money for that person to rebuild on the exact same spot, and then offers them the exact same deal on government flood insurance.  Four years later, the place gets flooded again, and the government repeats the routine.

No insurance company in their right mind would do this.  But then no insurance company has their own printing press either.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Here are the 66 programs eliminated in Trump's budget
« Reply #69 on: May 24, 2017, 10:46:24 pm »
It wouldn't hurt the credibility of the usual suspects on this forum to lend a positive word to this news, which (I assume) should be welcome by all of us.

If I am among the usual suspects... It's nice. I guess.
But over all, not all it's Trumped up to be. Ask me when it is an actual reduction in spending and not just yet another reduction in increase.

Offline INVAR

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Re: Here are the 66 programs eliminated in Trump's budget
« Reply #70 on: May 24, 2017, 10:50:21 pm »
If I am among the usual suspects... It's nice. I guess.
But over all, not all it's Trumped up to be. Ask me when it is an actual reduction in spending and not just yet another reduction in increase.

Something similar was demanded during the GOP ObamaCare 'Repeal and Replace' effort, that we should be positive in our words to the efforts they were making at 'fixing' ObamaCare.

I do not hold my breath when it comes to government 'fixing' anything or eliminating any spending.

As Reagan said, "A government program is the closest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth".
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Here are the 66 programs eliminated in Trump's budget
« Reply #71 on: May 24, 2017, 10:51:26 pm »
If I am among the usual suspects... It's nice. I guess.
But over all, not all it's Trumped up to be. Ask me when it is an actual reduction in spending and not just yet another reduction in increase.

This budget proposal would eleminate entire programs my friend which means there are REAL honest to God cuts in there.  Not that this congress will enact them mind you but they are in the proposal which itself is progress!
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Online bigheadfred

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Re: Here are the 66 programs eliminated in Trump's budget
« Reply #72 on: May 24, 2017, 10:53:41 pm »
uh huh

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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Here are the 66 programs eliminated in Trump's budget
« Reply #73 on: May 24, 2017, 10:56:56 pm »
Something similar was demanded during the GOP ObamaCare 'Repeal and Replace' effort, that we should be positive in our words to the efforts they were making at 'fixing' ObamaCare.

I do not hold my breath when it comes to government 'fixing' anything or eliminating any spending.

As Reagan said, "A government program is the closest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth".

That's right.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Here are the 66 programs eliminated in Trump's budget
« Reply #74 on: May 24, 2017, 11:01:08 pm »
This budget proposal would eleminate entire programs my friend which means there are REAL honest to God cuts in there.  Not that this congress will enact them mind you but they are in the proposal which itself is progress!

@Bigun
I don't know. I know Rush admitted there were no cuts overall... just reduction of increase.
And 50B is a drop in the bucket. A balanced budget is somewhere around a $1T cut in spending.
So when they get in that neighborhood, expect joy from me.
But this? Just rearranging the deck chairs.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 11:03:18 pm by roamer_1 »