Author Topic: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?  (Read 61165 times)

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #150 on: May 17, 2017, 04:30:18 pm »
Well, we could start by not intentionally interpreting everything he says in the most negative way possible to make him look as bad as possible.

For example, his comments on the Civil War were completely reasonable. He detailed the long lead-up to the war, including Andrew Jackson's role, and asked a profound philosophical question about why it was America had to resort to such a level of infighting.

How did the media and #NeverTrumps interpret this? As Donald Trump being ignorant on the subject. They took his question on why was there a Civil War, and framed it as Trump not knowing the root causes behind the war, rather than the rhetorical, philosophical question it clearly was.

The media has flipped the principle of charity on its head with Trump. A good start to being fair would be, you know, not doing that.
I was curious. We don't need to interpret everything he says as the worst possible message, the MSM will do that for us. Still, he does step in it from time to time. While that sort of controversy played well for him in the election cycle dominating airtime and other media, it really gets in the way of governing. The media who had the issues of Newsweek all printed and distributed showing President Hillary on the cover were gobsmacked when she lost (to my immense and intense pleasure), but have recovered and will go into full court press against Trump. It fits their delusions, and I'm just waiting for the psychotic break.

Not all who did not support Trump are Liberals, and most on the Conservative end of things have cautiously steeped back and are looking at what he does, what he tries, and ever look askance at the media. Many are former Cruz supporters who fully understand that the media lies, but also that it is human nature to embrace the messages which fit one's own prejudices before seeking the facts, should those ever be brought to light, intentionally or otherwise.
While Trump will not get a pass or interpretive concessions (he will be taken literally), the assumption is not necessarily the worst. Confirmation of that, should it be the case, is preferred.
Most people here prefer to have the facts, and will post articles from a variety of sources that they might be debunked. That takes facts, and not just a shout-down as I have seen elsewhere, so welcome aboard.
I think you will find most folks here, if not entangled in some silly pissing match, are fair.
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Offline Idiot

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #151 on: May 17, 2017, 04:31:57 pm »
Look at what using the mere word "impeachment" has done for the market today.  DOW down 250....this might get ugly fast.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #152 on: May 17, 2017, 04:34:02 pm »
Well, we could start by not intentionally interpreting everything he says in the most negative way possible to make him look as bad as possible.

For example, his comments on the Civil War were completely reasonable. He detailed the long lead-up to the war, including Andrew Jackson's role, and asked a profound philosophical question about why it was America had to resort to such a level of infighting.

How did the media and #NeverTrumps interpret this? As Donald Trump being ignorant on the subject. They took his question on why was there a Civil War, and framed it as Trump not knowing the root causes behind the war, rather than the rhetorical, philosophical question it clearly was.

The media has flipped the principle of charity on its head with Trump. A good start to being fair would be, you know, not doing that.

@LetsTalk

Well, that is completely reasonable, insightful, and accurate.  Too bad your point isn't getting the attention it deserves.

When you take the worst possible interpretation of what someone says as a matter of course, you can make virtually anyone look terrible.  That's not to say that Trump hasn't self-inflicted some wounds, but the degree of perceived self-infliction would be much lower if so many weren't so eager to drag him down.

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #153 on: May 17, 2017, 04:35:38 pm »
Look at what using the mere word "impeachment" has done for the market today.  DOW down 250....this might get ugly fast.

There have been Rats demanding Impeachment since before he was inaugurated.  I was watching the market open before I came in to work (I'm West Coast), and the big dive came when Ryan had a press conference to show his true stripes about Trump's tax cut plan.
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Offline Emjay

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #154 on: May 17, 2017, 04:40:58 pm »
There have been Rats demanding Impeachment since before he was inaugurated.  I was watching the market open before I came in to work (I'm West Coast), and the big dive came when Ryan had a press conference to show his true stripes about Trump's tax cut plan.

I posted this opinion on the Comey/Flynn thread. 

This is not even the time for Trump to defend himself .... it's time for Republicans in Congress to do so and shout from the hilltops.  The libs, dems and the press have declared war and the only pubs we hear from are McCain and Graham.

The Pub leadership, preferably with a respected person like Ted Cruz leading the charge, needs to fight back for their and our leader.

It ticks me off that they haven't done so already.
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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #155 on: May 17, 2017, 04:58:27 pm »

For example, his comments on the Civil War were completely reasonable. He detailed the long lead-up to the war, including Andrew Jackson's role, and asked a profound philosophical question about why it was America had to resort to such a level of infighting.



Jackson's forced march of the civilized Indian tribes of the 1830's grants him no moral authority to say anything of consequence.

And I say this even as he is husband of my great great great great aunt.

Next.....
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 05:00:48 pm by catfish1957 »
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #156 on: May 17, 2017, 05:00:45 pm »
Jackson's forced march of the civilized Indian tribes of the 1830's grants him no moral authority to say anything of consequence.

Next.....

Trump's philosophical depth runs to about "So do you suppose those or real or silicone?"

Offline Emjay

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #157 on: May 17, 2017, 05:09:23 pm »
Jackson's forced march of the civilized Indian tribes of the 1830's grants him no moral authority to say anything of consequence.

And I say this even as he is husband of my great great great great aunt.

Next.....

Everyone has an opinion on the Civil War and Trump is entitled to his.

We need to stop focusing on these minor slip ups.  We are, in effect, joining the vast left wing conspiracy by doing so.
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Offline INVAR

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #158 on: May 17, 2017, 05:10:58 pm »
Part of the problem is that it quickly becomes worse. When such comments began to be allowed at TOS it wasn't long before a comment that "Trump's wall needs to be long enough for his blindfolded enemies to stand with their backs to it"  went unchallenged and soon similar comments were being made with glee.

Fair point and the fact that unchallenged statements become permissible behavior is indeed a risk. But the owner will have to make that call. 

I'm proceeding from the selfish viewpoint that such a comment serves as quotable ammunition when I am called to task for pointing out that there are Trump supporters willing to kill for Trump, or that the mindset of the Trump militant is not any different than mobs who turned their societies into tyrannical bloodbaths.
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Offline Emjay

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #159 on: May 17, 2017, 05:11:01 pm »
Trump's philosophical depth runs to about "So do you suppose those or real or silicone?"

Very funny, Cripplecreek.

You will probably be happy to know that Elijah Cummings just made a statement to the effect that "we cannot ignore these scandals any longer."

Elijah Cummings !!!

We are at war, sweetie.  Choose sides wisely.
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Offline Emjay

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #160 on: May 17, 2017, 05:13:35 pm »
Fair point and the fact that unchallenged statements become permissible behavior is indeed a risk. But the owner will have to make that call. 

I'm proceeding from the selfish viewpoint that such a comment serves as quotable ammunition when I am called to task for pointing out that there are Trump supporters willing to kill for Trump, or that the mindset of the Trump militant is not any different than mobs who turned their societies into tyrannical bloodbaths.

It's a selfish viewpoint, indeed.  And totally wrong. 

We have serious stuff going on in the country and it's time you, and others who agree with you, examine your priorities.

How long are you going to let your Trump Hate control your viewpoint on every issue?  You are as bad as those you are criticizing.
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Offline INVAR

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #161 on: May 17, 2017, 05:22:43 pm »
It's a selfish viewpoint, indeed.  And totally wrong. 

We have serious stuff going on in the country and it's time you, and others who agree with you, examine your priorities.

Look lady, our priorities are based on promoting and defending our principles - not playing Apologetics for an egomaniac with his foot so far up his maw and so far out of his depth it is frightening.


How long are you going to let your Trump Hate control your viewpoint on every issue?  You are as bad as those you are criticizing.

Like liberals, you constantly define every single disagreement or criticism of Trump's statements and behaviors as 'hate'.  I do not hate Trump, nor do I despise him as much as I do Obama or the Clintons.  I'm indifferent to him, and do not expect much in terms of promoting Conservative principles from a lifelong NYC Liberal Democrat.

Trump is what he is.  I'm more fascinated by watching the methods of True Believers get applied to Trump, because that is in actuality a larger clear and present danger to liberty than by anything Trump himself can do.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline beandog

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #162 on: May 17, 2017, 05:29:02 pm »
It's a selfish viewpoint, indeed.  And totally wrong. 

We have serious stuff going on in the country and it's time you, and others who agree with you, examine your priorities.

How long are you going to let your Trump Hate control your viewpoint on every issue?  You are as bad as those you are criticizing.
Some people have just decided that their priority is to bitter, hateful old farts.  They are actually worse than those they are criticizing.    This is about them being right, not what is right for the country. **nononono*

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #163 on: May 17, 2017, 05:30:11 pm »
.

Trump is what he is.  I'm more fascinated by watching the methods of True Believers get applied to Trump, because that is in actuality a larger clear and present danger to liberty than by anything Trump himself can do.

The Trumpian faction also has to realize that there are some ultra-conservatives like myself, who have taken self-pledges to never ever support a liberal under any circumstance.  This Trojan horse is not a conservative.  He only deserves our contempt.
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Offline Emjay

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #164 on: May 17, 2017, 05:30:18 pm »
Look lady, our priorities are based on promoting and defending our principles - not playing Apologetics for an egomaniac with his foot so far up his maw and so far out of his depth it is frightening.


Like liberals, you constantly define every single disagreement or criticism of Trump's statements and behaviors as 'hate'.  I do not hate Trump, nor do I despise him as much as I do Obama or the Clintons.  I'm indifferent to him, and do not expect much in terms of promoting Conservative principles from a lifelong NYC Liberal Democrat.

Trump is what he is.  I'm more fascinated by watching the methods of True Believers get applied to Trump, because that is in actuality a larger clear and present danger to liberty than by anything Trump himself can do.

Your frenetic post just proved my point.  You are more interested in hoping that True Believers, as you call them, get disillusioned and punished than you are in anything substantive happening to the country.

Most reasonable people here are well aware that Trump is as far from perfect as a person could be.

But most of us are more interested in what happens to the country.  You claim to despise Obama and the Clintons and yet you play into their hands by your emphasis on proving yourself right to hate Trump.  That's what it's all about... proving yourself right.

Well, okay.  You are right.

Elijah Cummings just said on TV that "we can't ignore these scandals any longer."

Elijah ... who sat calmly through the Obama administration and the Hillary campaign.

That's the side you want to join???

Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline EC

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #165 on: May 17, 2017, 05:31:24 pm »
Some people have just decided that their priority is to bitter, hateful old farts.  They are actually worse than those they are criticizing.    This is about them being right, not what is right for the country. **nononono*

Yep. I too have problems with that aspect of Trump supporters.   :tongue2:




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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #166 on: May 17, 2017, 05:31:40 pm »
n.

That's the side you want to join???

Not at all.  Just tell Trump to get the hell out, and let Pence govern.
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Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #167 on: May 17, 2017, 05:36:03 pm »
I used to think Citizens United was a good call, but these days I'm having my doubts.

It may be on a sound foundation (donating money qualifies as 1st Amendment protected Political Speech) but the best little whorehouse in DC has made itself so totally beholden to K Street I doubt most of Congress is even capable of writing a law themselves.

Which kind of explains why we keep getting Executive Orders Left and Right.

We've let the rascals get away with it for so long the will of the voters has become irrelevant to Congress.

Congressional Whores have turned us into a term limited monarchy.

No matter what any President wants done, they just take the money and flip him off.

As for Trump, he's doing a fine job of painting himself into one corner after another with his 'Art of the Deal' crap.

He needs a course in Public Speaking to learn how to make his case in televised addresses rather than tweets to understand how Reagan worked the room.

Firing Priebus as WH COS is a must if we want Trump to stop cutting his sell out deals.
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #168 on: May 17, 2017, 05:37:43 pm »
Look at what using the mere word "impeachment" has done for the market today.  DOW down 250....this might get ugly fast.
It is time for party "leaders" like Ryan, McConnell McCain, Cruz etc. to speak out to show us all how much they are committed to the agenda.

Or perhaps they expect Trump to get completely pissed off, resign and start over with Pence, weakened like Gerald Ford.
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Offline skeeter

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #169 on: May 17, 2017, 05:38:32 pm »
Very funny, Cripplecreek.

You will probably be happy to know that Elijah Cummings just made a statement to the effect that "we cannot ignore these scandals any longer."

Elijah Cummings !!!

We are at war, sweetie.  Choose sides wisely.

Regardless of how anyone feels about Trump half of the country is no longer willing to accept the results of open election. They, their political party, the unelected state bureaucracy and most of the media are complicit in attempting to overthrow those results. And their surrogates are increasingly willing to resort to violence to serve this end.

This above all else should be what concerns us now.

« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 05:40:25 pm by skeeter »

Offline beandog

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #170 on: May 17, 2017, 05:39:54 pm »
Not at all.  Just tell Trump to get the hell out, and let Pence govern.
If you think for one second that the Rats are going to let Pence govern any more than they are letting Trump govern, than you are sadly delusional. **nononono*

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #171 on: May 17, 2017, 05:42:50 pm »
If you think for one second that the Rats are going to let Pence govern any more than they are letting Trump govern, than you are sadly delusional. **nononono*

Whoooooa there cowboy.  Not saying we would get anything less obstructionist from the dims, but at least all the DJT clown show distraction  would be cleared.
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Offline INVAR

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #172 on: May 17, 2017, 05:53:51 pm »
Your frenetic post just proved my point.  You are more interested in hoping that True Believers, as you call them, get disillusioned and punished than you are in anything substantive happening to the country.

Where have I called for Trump Believers to be punished?  Secondly, supporting a party and/or politicians who have no principles other than themselves while creating the illusion of 'winning' is not accomplishing anything substantive for the country, even if you have lied to yourself that it does.

But most of us are more interested in what happens to the country.  You claim to despise Obama and the Clintons and yet you play into their hands by your emphasis on proving yourself right to hate Trump.  That's what it's all about... proving yourself right.

It is the Devil who would like everyone to believe that pointing out sins, flaws and bad behavior is worse than anything else that someone can do.  The interest you demonstrate is in salvation via politics and politicians, not from principles that undergird liberty.  The principles that a majority have declared an 'enemy of good' as you hitch your faith to a man and his party that continue to practice insanity to save you from the consequences that are now inevitable.

Principled Conservatives proving ourselves right about all this simply acknowledges the fact that we are going to suffer those consequences - bigly.  There is no pleasure in it outside of standing for  the truth and what is right, despite the fact the majority do not want to hear it.   You and a majority of Party hacks and political supporters continue to demonstrate the fact that Isaiah 30:10 is what governs the minds and hearts of this people.

Elijah Cummings just said on TV that "we can't ignore these scandals any longer."

Elijah ... who sat calmly through the Obama administration and the Hillary campaign.

That's the side you want to join???

I don't give a crap what the Communist has to say - and I don't play the tiresome game of "You are either with us, or you are the enemy".  Doing so just continues to illustrate that our refusal to jump on your train from the beginning was a wise choice.
[/quote]
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...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #173 on: May 17, 2017, 06:02:20 pm »
Everyone has an opinion on the Civil War and Trump is entitled to his.

We need to stop focusing on these minor slip ups.  We are, in effect, joining the vast left wing conspiracy by doing so.
There's just one problem with that last statement. We actually want him to do a good job. We love America. Sometimes criticism is 'constructive'--as in 'here's what was wrong, quit it'.

The left wants to wreck the whole country.
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #174 on: May 17, 2017, 06:14:57 pm »
Your frenetic post just proved my point.  You are more interested in hoping that True Believers, as you call them, get disillusioned and punished than you are in anything substantive happening to the country.

Most reasonable people here are well aware that Trump is as far from perfect as a person could be.

But most of us are more interested in what happens to the country.  You claim to despise Obama and the Clintons and yet you play into their hands by your emphasis on proving yourself right to hate Trump.  That's what it's all about... proving yourself right.

Well, okay.  You are right.

Elijah Cummings just said on TV that "we can't ignore these scandals any longer."

Elijah ... who sat calmly through the Obama administration and the Hillary campaign.

That's the side you want to join???
M'am, right is right and wrong is wrong, and that doesn't change because the guy you like is the one screwing up.
"...as far from perfect as a person could be" would just about make him the Devil incarnate--and none of us have claimed that degree of evil on Trump's part--those are your words.
To me, Elijah Cummings is a waste of calories and oxygen, and has always been a shill for the Communists in our Government. The Obama administration was one continuous series of intertwined multiple scandals, and Elijah did just fine ignoring those, so he can STFU.

Like I said, we want Trump to get it right; the fate of our country is depending on it. That doesn't mean we'll give him a mulligan and stop looking at reality, either. It isn't "hate" that motivates any of us to point out the flaws in logic or policy at the highest levels. What needs to quit is the whole "shoot the messenger" mentality. It is just another way of ignoring the problem.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis