Author Topic: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?  (Read 27791 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Member
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 29,929
  • International Cracker of Wise
Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #725 on: May 19, 2017, 04:59:29 PM »
That is an issue that needs fighting out in court.  I firmly believe that the children of non citizens who happen to be born on our soil are not automatically citizens today.

You make an interesting point there, @Bigun.  Much of the trouble we have today with policy is a result of court decisions.  Many attempts to remedy the problems have been thwarted by other court decisions.  President Trump can't turn around without having his decisions set aside by courts, on legal grounds that should never have been even considered ("Well, he said such-and-such in the campaign, so obviously the policy is racist!").

Until the courts are placed back in their proper place in the system, and no longer be considered a super legislature, we will never get things fixed.  It's too easy for a guy in a robe on a bench to become a petty tyrant.  He has every incentive to go wild.
I will NOT comply.
Thanks to Cripplecreek and Oceander for the medal!

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 11,031
Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #726 on: May 19, 2017, 04:59:45 PM »
The more laws, the more loopholes. The more loopholes, the more lawyers. The more lawyers, the less personal responsibility.

Also true.
The only way forward is to return to what works... here, for 200 years, and over by you, for far, far longer than that.
All the spun up sophistry in the world will not change the fact.

"Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it" -Santayana

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Member
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 29,929
  • International Cracker of Wise
Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #727 on: May 19, 2017, 05:00:15 PM »

And which one of these are you going to be able to get through the Congress and get the President to sign?

It doesn't matter.  The courts will simply overturn any law we care to pass.
I will NOT comply.
Thanks to Cripplecreek and Oceander for the medal!

Offline DiogenesLamp

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,686
Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #728 on: May 19, 2017, 05:00:23 PM »
Uh, no.  That's what you are saying.  I'll stick to what I believe in instead of embracing Democrat values because it gets me elected.


You didn't explain further what you meant by your comment,   you simply took a potshot at me.   


I didn't embrace Democrat values,  (They have values?)  I simply did everything I could to make sure the evil Hillary cup passed before me.   



Offline DiogenesLamp

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,686
Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #729 on: May 19, 2017, 05:01:20 PM »
With Trump, none.  But then Trump isn't a Conservative.


Neither is congress,  so whence your ideas?   


Could we perhaps ask that you suggest ideas which are possible? 



Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 28,373
  • The income tax: Root of all evil!
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #730 on: May 19, 2017, 05:01:33 PM »
You make an interesting point there, @Bigun.  Much of the trouble we have today with policy is a result of court decisions.  Many attempts to remedy the problems have been thwarted by other court decisions.  President Trump can't turn around without having his decisions set aside by courts, on legal grounds that should never have been even considered ("Well, he said such-and-such in the campaign, so obviously the policy is racist!").

Until the courts are placed back in their proper place in the system, and no longer be considered a super legislature, we will never get things fixed.  It's too easy for a guy in a robe on a bench to become a petty tyrant.  He has every incentive to go wild.
:amen:  :beer:

Offline DiogenesLamp

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,686
Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #731 on: May 19, 2017, 05:03:35 PM »
You make an interesting point there, @Bigun.  Much of the trouble we have today with policy is a result of court decisions.  Many attempts to remedy the problems have been thwarted by other court decisions.  President Trump can't turn around without having his decisions set aside by courts, on legal grounds that should never have been even considered ("Well, he said such-and-such in the campaign, so obviously the policy is racist!").

Until the courts are placed back in their proper place in the system, and no longer be considered a super legislature, we will never get things fixed.  It's too easy for a guy in a robe on a bench to become a petty tyrant.  He has every incentive to go wild.


And how do you fix this?   You appoint non-kook judges.    You have to have a President willing to appoint Non-Kook Judges,   and in the case between Trump and Hillary,  it is clear which one was more likely to appoint non-kook judges. 



Offline DiogenesLamp

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,686
Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #732 on: May 19, 2017, 05:04:25 PM »
It doesn't matter.  The courts will simply overturn any law we care to pass.


It wouldn't even get that far.   You couldn't have gotten the congress to pass any of those submitted ideas. 



Online Hoodat

  • R 8:37
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4,743
Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #733 on: May 19, 2017, 05:05:01 PM »

Neither is congress,  so whence your ideas?   


Could we perhaps ask that you suggest ideas which are possible?

All are possible when we elect Conservatives.  Unfortunately, that didn't happen this last Presidential election.
Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.

Online truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 21,943
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
    • The place where argument addicts can go
Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #734 on: May 19, 2017, 05:06:53 PM »

Neither is congress,  so whence your ideas?   


Could we perhaps ask that you suggest ideas which are possible?

Better yet start with the measures that Trump campaigned for. Get as much of that done as possible.

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Member
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 29,929
  • International Cracker of Wise
Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #735 on: May 19, 2017, 05:11:15 PM »

And how do you fix this?   You appoint non-kook judges.    You have to have a President willing to appoint Non-Kook Judges,   and in the case between Trump and Hillary,  it is clear which one was more likely to appoint non-kook judges.

Every man who gets on a court can become a kook Judge.  Lord Acton's rule applies.  The power of the courts must be curtailed, because no matter what person you put in the robe, eventually he will expand his tyranny to fit the available power.

Congress is the only body that can put limits on the courts by limiting their jurisdiction, and Congress isn't willing to do that for the same reason they won't rein in zealous bureaucrats:  They rely on the courts and bureaucrats to do the things Congress wants without Congress taking any of the blame.  Long story short, Congressmen are incentivized to be chickens.
I will NOT comply.
Thanks to Cripplecreek and Oceander for the medal!

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 28,373
  • The income tax: Root of all evil!
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #736 on: May 19, 2017, 05:12:05 PM »
All are possible when we elect Conservatives.  Unfortunately, that didn't happen this last Presidential election.

@Hoodat my friend it matters who we elect but until we deal with the problem spoken of in the article linked below it won't matter much.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/21955000-12329000-government-employees-outnumber-manufacturing

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Member
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 29,929
  • International Cracker of Wise
Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #737 on: May 19, 2017, 05:12:31 PM »

It wouldn't even get that far.   You couldn't have gotten the congress to pass any of those submitted ideas.

I'm not about to disagree with you on that, because I'm your fellow traveler in that.  See my post above.
I will NOT comply.
Thanks to Cripplecreek and Oceander for the medal!

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Member
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 19,819
Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #738 on: May 19, 2017, 05:13:48 PM »

And which one of these are you going to be able to get through the Congress and get the President to sign?
Two and five. The idea of 'workfare' has been breached before to reduce endless dependency and return welfare to a safety net and not a vocation. Five years gets the one in the crib to preschool or Kindergarten. Then its time for mom to get (back?) to work. If she needs to update/improve her skill set, there are five years to do that through adult ed/GED and community college programs.

Student loans: get the government out. The bankers would love a source of income, open it up to private investment and you'll do away with six year four year degrees in 'studies' programs that have very limited employment potential. I'm not saying to let the banks choose majors, but let them set interest rates and let loans based on the probability of repayment, much like the sort of risk assessment insurance companies. Engineering? High GPA? lower rates. Grievance studies? Low GPA? higher rates. This would encourage STEM studies, and better scholarship, which lead to better jobs and salaries more likely for the bank to get paid back.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 05:15:08 PM by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression
And I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses. Nehemiah 4:14 (KJV)

About the only "Big" Liberals don't revile is "Big Government"

Offline DiogenesLamp

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,686
Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #739 on: May 19, 2017, 05:15:13 PM »
All are possible when we elect Conservatives.



That is not happening,  and has not been happening for quite some time.   What do you propose to do to make such a thing happen?   Remember,  you can't enact any of your suggestions till *AFTER*   you get the election of Conservatives to happen.   


Do you not see the systemic flaws in your approach? 








 Unfortunately, that didn't happen this last Presidential election.


And of course your message would not be complete without some form of a backhanded slap at the people with whom you disagree on the sensibility of voting for Trump over Hillary.   



Offline DiogenesLamp

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,686
Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #740 on: May 19, 2017, 05:16:46 PM »
Better yet start with the measures that Trump campaigned for. Get as much of that done as possible.



Yes.   If you can't make big sweeping bites into the problem,   make whatever bites you can. 



Offline DiogenesLamp

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,686
Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #741 on: May 19, 2017, 05:18:21 PM »
Every man who gets on a court can become a kook Judge.  Lord Acton's rule applies.  The power of the courts must be curtailed, because no matter what person you put in the robe, eventually he will expand his tyranny to fit the available power.

Congress is the only body that can put limits on the courts by limiting their jurisdiction, and Congress isn't willing to do that for the same reason they won't rein in zealous bureaucrats:  They rely on the courts and bureaucrats to do the things Congress wants without Congress taking any of the blame.  Long story short, Congressmen are incentivized to be chickens.



Media.   It is a constant left wing wind blowing against the politics of the nation,   and till it is addressed,  we will continue to blow in that direction. 


Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Member
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 29,929
  • International Cracker of Wise
Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #742 on: May 19, 2017, 05:20:29 PM »


Media.   It is a constant left wing wind blowing against the politics of the nation,   and till it is addressed,  we will continue to blow in that direction.

Not gonna argue with that, either.   :amen:
I will NOT comply.
Thanks to Cripplecreek and Oceander for the medal!

Offline DiogenesLamp

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,686
Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #743 on: May 19, 2017, 05:24:54 PM »
Two and five. The idea of 'workfare' has been breached before to reduce endless dependency and return welfare to a safety net and not a vocation. Five years gets the one in the crib to preschool or Kindergarten. Then its time for mom to get (back?) to work. If she needs to update/improve her skill set, there are five years to do that through adult ed/GED and community college programs.


The time when that approach would have worked I think is now past.   We have a different set of demographics than we did in 1995,   and so I don't think you could get work fare through congress today.





Student loans: get the government out. The bankers would love a source of income, open it up to private investment and you'll do away with six year four year degrees in 'studies' programs that have very limited employment potential. I'm not saying to let the banks choose majors, but let them set interest rates and let loans based on the probability of repayment, much like the sort of risk assessment insurance companies. Engineering? High GPA? lower rates. Grievance studies? Low GPA? higher rates. This would encourage STEM studies, and better scholarship, which lead to better jobs and salaries more likely for the bank to get paid back.


This is a more plausible idea.   Of all the ones mentioned,  this is the closest to possible,   but I still think the current congress wouldn't do it,  and would claim to not even see the need to do it. 


But we can nibble at this apple several different ways,   and I think we need to do some of that. 


Texas' efforts to create a $10,000.00 degree program is exactly the sort of thing we need to be doing.   Also credentializing the Khan Academy and others like it would take some of the money out of "Higher"  education.


The Selling of credentials at exorbitant prices is a long ongoing scam in this nation,  and we need to be draining the profit out of it. 


Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 28,373
  • The income tax: Root of all evil!
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #744 on: May 19, 2017, 05:25:17 PM »
It took more than a half century for LBJ'S "great society" to bring us to this point and will take at least half that long to correct even if a concerted effort is undertaken to do it.

Online Hoodat

  • R 8:37
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4,743
Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #745 on: May 19, 2017, 05:26:22 PM »
That is not happening,  and has not been happening for quite some time.   What do you propose to do to make such a thing happen?   Remember,  you can't enact any of your suggestions till *AFTER*   you get the election of Conservatives to happen.

Uh, no, I'm not falling for that non-rational BS.  The question was in regarding the Conservative approach to dissuading irresponsible behavior.  It is disingenuous to support liberal Republicans at the expense of Conservative ones, and then criticize Conservative Republicans for not being in position to enact Conservative legislation.

You supported Trump.  You got what you paid for.  You told Conservatives you didn't need us.  So live with it.  I've told you what Conservatives should do.  You clearly reject it.  So enjoy your future as Democrat-lite.  By next election, the voters will figure it out and go for the real thing instead of the imitation.  And you will again be blaming Conservatives because they didn't want to sell their souls for short-lived political expediency.
Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 11,031
Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #746 on: May 19, 2017, 05:27:55 PM »

Do you not see the systemic flaws in your approach? 


Yes, the systemic flaw is in repeatedly doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result.

Republicans.

Better to begin again elsewhere, with those who would actually fulfill their promises.
Where the party platform actually means something.
And where candidates actually believe in their causes.

In my vast experience, you will get *nothing* from the GOP.
And you will get nothing from Trump.

Relying upon people absent of character will never yield results
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 05:31:58 PM by roamer_1 »

Online musiclady

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 19,692
Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #747 on: May 19, 2017, 05:29:23 PM »
It took more than a half century for LBJ'S "great society" to bring us to this point and will take at least half that long to correct even if a concerted effort is undertaken to do it.

The problem is that Trump's popularity and successful election proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that not even Republicans want to correct the vile actions and consequences of LBJ's "great society."

We are in a tiny minority here, and the majority of Republicans are scoffing at us because we still believe what we believed 50 years ago.

I don't know how we right this ship with the mentality we see in Trump's supporters.....
Character still matters.  It always matters.

May 3, 2016 - the day the Republican party left ME.  I am now without a Party, and quite possibly without a country.  May God have mercy!

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Member
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 19,819
Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #748 on: May 19, 2017, 05:29:44 PM »

And how do you fix this?   You appoint non-kook judges.    You have to have a President willing to appoint Non-Kook Judges,   and in the case between Trump and Hillary,  it is clear which one was more likely to appoint non-kook judges.
There is an alternative, but it requires catching federal judges performing acts which can lead to their impeachment. I would guess that the Judges who rendeer the most liberal decisions may do so because of their sympathy with those committing the acts against the laws they place a stay upon.
 
Whether that sympathy crosses the line into actual illegal behaviour on their part is the question, and if it does, that may be cause for impeachment, especially if proven behaviour prior to placing a stay on any given law or executive order antedates the stay, and occurs within the time the law is in effect.

For all practical purposes, stopping a law from being enforced because they (or someone who is related, or with whom there is a fiscal or other connection) have broken the law could be an avenue of approach.  It is difficult, however to prove that situation, but if so, that may be a battle plan.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression
And I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses. Nehemiah 4:14 (KJV)

About the only "Big" Liberals don't revile is "Big Government"

Online truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 21,943
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
    • The place where argument addicts can go
Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #749 on: May 19, 2017, 05:32:07 PM »


Yes.   If you can't make big sweeping bites into the problem,   make whatever bites you can.
That is what voters in effect, authorized. Do that, they see results, then move to other items.

Customer walks in, says I want a car. You don't veer off and try to sell them a hot air balloon, pumped full of rhetoric and philosophy.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf