Author Topic: Why Verizon is losing more cellphone customers than ever  (Read 5333 times)

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Offline SirLinksALot

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Why Verizon is losing more cellphone customers than ever
« on: April 23, 2017, 02:08:40 am »
SOURCE: Washington Post

URL: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2017/04/20/why-verizon-is-losing-more-cellphone-customers-than-ever/?utm_term=.657ccbe3f1db

by Brian Fung



For the first time, the nation's largest wireless provider is losing customers faster than it can replace them.

It's a major milestone for Verizon, which on Thursday reported a net decline of 289,000 cellphone subscribers over the past four months.

Even though Verizon usually loses some cellular customers every quarter, it has historically lured enough back to be able to report growth in that part of its business. But recent months have seen hundreds of thousands of customers defect to competitors such as T-Mobile and Sprint, analysts say.

Things could have been even worse if Verizon hadn't suddenly reintroduced unlimited data plans in February, according to Verizon's earnings numbers. In the first six weeks of the year, Verizon lost nearly 400,000 wireless customers, according to its latest earnings report. But once the new plans became available, they helped blunt those losses by bringing in about 110,000 new subscribers, Verizon said.

Verizon's reluctance to bring back unlimited data and its sudden about-face this year reflect rising competition in the cellular industry that is forcing large incumbents to adapt. The telecom giant has long argued that consumers are willing to pay a premium for a quality wireless experience, in contrast to budget carriers such as Sprint.

But aggressive moves by smaller carriers to build out their networks are paying off, said Roger Entner, an industry analyst with Recon Analytics, meaning that such companies as T-Mobile are chipping away at Verizon's network advantage. In a recent federal auction of wireless airwaves, T-Mobile emerged as a major beneficiary, spending $8 billion to acquire rights to radio spectrum it will use to expand its mobile Internet capacity.

β€œAt least three of the four nationwide carriers [are] inching closer to network parity in the major markets,” Entner said.

In addition, fewer customers are choosing to leave the smaller carriers for Verizon or AT&T, Entner said. This is important because in a market such as the United States, there aren't many new customers left; most people already have cell service, and as a result, carriers have been forced to engage in costly price wars to poach subscribers from one another. These duels have led to escalating promotions and competing terms of service that reduce corporate margins β€” to the benefit of consumers.

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Why Verizon is losing more cellphone customers than ever
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2017, 05:15:03 am »
We had two phones on AT&T, a legacy from the Alltel merger. We moved those onto the business account I had with Verizon, which has better coverage, along with two others already there, and now pay $120/month less for more reliable service (Verizon's rates have come down, too). It costs about what those Straight Talk cards would at Wal-Mart for four phones.

Sprint and T-Mobile are really sketchy in this region, Verizon had good coverage with only a few rare dead spots, AT&T is only good near a paved surface. Get away from the sidewalk too far and AT&T gets less reliable. Verizon reps were friendly and helpful, AT&T reps had a tendency to be snooty--that cinched it.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 05:15:50 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline ConstitutionRose

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Re: Why Verizon is losing more cellphone customers than ever
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2017, 12:14:58 pm »
My son has a managerial position at T-Mobile.  We'd switch, except (1) there is a significant difference in network availability, not only where we live, but also the places we travel for our clients; and (2) every time we have talked to Verizon on an issue of any sort, the agent has made sure we are using the most cost effective plan.
"Old man can't is dead.  I helped bury him."  Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas quoting his grandfather.

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Re: Why Verizon is losing more cellphone customers than ever
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2017, 12:47:23 pm »
We are surround by water pretty much on all four sides.  The neighbors are constantly on Verizon for spotty service.  On guy posted a picture of him up in a palm tree yelling "Can You Hear me now".  Verizon has reluctantly added signal boosters to those who complain the hardest.  Finally a tech dude said that all the water effects the signal.  :thud:

Offline Rivergirl

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Re: Why Verizon is losing more cellphone customers than ever
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2017, 01:09:00 pm »
Our rural area has little to no AT&T cell service.  They actually gave me a small MicroCell unit for inside my home.  It must be near a window and only then do I get cell service. that means we still have a land line for safety reasons.
Most people in the area have Verizon which is better than AT&T but still not perfect.

Offline ConstitutionRose

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Re: Why Verizon is losing more cellphone customers than ever
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2017, 03:06:39 pm »
Our rural area has little to no AT&T cell service.  They actually gave me a small MicroCell unit for inside my home.  It must be near a window and only then do I get cell service. that means we still have a land line for safety reasons.
Most people in the area have Verizon which is better than AT&T but still not perfect.

We recently moved into the city to be closer to medical facilities.  While we lived in the country we had boosters with the Verizon service.   You'd see people walking down the road or pacing their driveways on their phones.  I think all cell service is spotty in rural areas.

I knew that my phone calls would go dead every time I crossed one of the fingers of the lake.  I guess the water has something to do with that.
"Old man can't is dead.  I helped bury him."  Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas quoting his grandfather.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Why Verizon is losing more cellphone customers than ever
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2017, 03:21:39 pm »
Every year or two I run the numbers on switching from Verizon. When you add in all the hidden fees and the crappy service that others tell me they have, I have yet to find it a savings to move. All the others have to offer is unlimited data. I barely reach the 2 gig limit on my plan and I have 2 phones running on it.

Offline Rivergirl

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Re: Why Verizon is losing more cellphone customers than ever
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2017, 04:08:08 pm »
Rose..........the problem in our area is that the residents refuse to allow a tower........anywhere.  They even object to the library.........don't want people driving in their town.   Nuff said. 
We pay for the landline and are glad for it.   During Sandy we were without power for two weeks.  No well, no water.....no septic.............no heat, no hot water.......no no no.........but we DID have our landline.  Since the trees were down for miles around no rescue was possible............but we were still glad to have the line.  Our kids could call and be glad to know we were safe.
Best wishes and hope you don't need the medical center.............

Offline endicom

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Re: Why Verizon is losing more cellphone customers than ever
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2017, 04:15:43 pm »
Every year or two I run the numbers on switching from Verizon. When you add in all the hidden fees and the crappy service that others tell me they have, I have yet to find it a savings to move. All the others have to offer is unlimited data. I barely reach the 2 gig limit on my plan and I have 2 phones running on it.


I have Verizon because it has the best coverage/reception. I'm on a prepaid plan and am using a Moto G4 Play that cost me $34.00 at Family Dollar. My 2 gig data plan is extended to 3 gig because I autopay.


Offline thackney

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Re: Why Verizon is losing more cellphone customers than ever
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2017, 05:29:52 pm »
Every year or two I run the numbers on switching from Verizon. When you add in all the hidden fees and the crappy service that others tell me they have, I have yet to find it a savings to move. All the others have to offer is unlimited data. I barely reach the 2 gig limit on my plan and I have 2 phones running on it.

Obviously, you do not have teenage daughters on your plan...
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Offline thackney

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Re: Why Verizon is losing more cellphone customers than ever
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2017, 05:32:22 pm »
Rose..........the problem in our area is that the residents refuse to allow a tower........anywhere.  They even object to the library.........don't want people driving in their town.   Nuff said. 
We pay for the landline and are glad for it.   During Sandy we were without power for two weeks.  No well, no water.....no septic.............no heat, no hot water.......no no no.........but we DID have our landline.  Since the trees were down for miles around no rescue was possible............but we were still glad to have the line.  Our kids could call and be glad to know we were safe.
Best wishes and hope you don't need the medical center.............

Interesting.  During Hurricane Ike, our Internet was the only thing working afterwards.  No landlines, no cell towers, no power in the immediate area.  Due to us using an IP phone, we were the only ones on the street with a working phone.  We used a small generator for a week.
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Offline ABX

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Re: Why Verizon is losing more cellphone customers than ever
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2017, 05:41:21 pm »
The pricing wars have taken their toll as Verizon always positioned itself as the premium service versus the cheap service. The fact is that Verizon and AT&T simply own more spectrum and more markets so naturally they will give better coverage than the T-Mobile, Sprint, etc. That's why those companies have been competing to the bottom on pricing to try to make up the difference.

When Verizon brought back unlimited data (and no it isn't throttled), their CHURN numbers flipped and they started gaining customers back quickly (also returning switchers from T-Mobile who didn't like their coverage).  As of the end of the quarter, ther CHURN rate was under 1% which is an industry low.

The racing to the bottom in prices won't last and VZ has the most money in the bank (if they would quit buying up tech and media companies) so I suspect things will settle down in short order.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2017, 05:41:59 pm by AbaraXas »

Offline ABX

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Re: Why Verizon is losing more cellphone customers than ever
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2017, 05:44:02 pm »
Rose..........the problem in our area is that the residents refuse to allow a tower........anywhere.  They even object to the library.........don't want people driving in their town.   Nuff said. 
We pay for the landline and are glad for it.   During Sandy we were without power for two weeks.  No well, no water.....no septic.............no heat, no hot water.......no no no.........but we DID have our landline.  Since the trees were down for miles around no rescue was possible............but we were still glad to have the line.  Our kids could call and be glad to know we were safe.
Best wishes and hope you don't need the medical center.............

HOAs, neighborhoods, and other areas refusing towers is one of the biggest problems with coverage, yet those are the same people who then complain when they don't have the servie they want. They don't want to see a tower but they want service.

Offline ABX

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Re: Why Verizon is losing more cellphone customers than ever
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2017, 05:46:55 pm »
Every year or two I run the numbers on switching from Verizon. When you add in all the hidden fees and the crappy service that others tell me they have, I have yet to find it a savings to move. All the others have to offer is unlimited data. I barely reach the 2 gig limit on my plan and I have 2 phones running on it.

The best deal with Verizon is if you own a business to talk to a business rep versus a retail rep (you can also work for a business that gets discounts). They give businesses, even small ones, discounts left and right and are happy to do so. I have 5 lines (3 smartphones, one tablet, one basic phone (for my grandmother), unlimited talk and text, 12GB data) and it runs about 150/month.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Why Verizon is losing more cellphone customers than ever
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2017, 06:58:15 pm »
The best deal with Verizon is if you own a business to talk to a business rep versus a retail rep (you can also work for a business that gets discounts). They give businesses, even small ones, discounts left and right and are happy to do so. I have 5 lines (3 smartphones, one tablet, one basic phone (for my grandmother), unlimited talk and text, 12GB data) and it runs about 150/month.
Here, it is a matter of coverage. Verizon made the investment in towers here when the Bakken boom started, not just in towns but out where it matters--in the boonies. Considering the only options which could transmit the data needed were satellite and cell phone, they dominated the market out there where the wellheads are. That not only worked for people working in the drilling end of the industry, but as production continues, those towers remain important to the people working in the production end of the oil patch as well. AT&T kept its loafers shiny and stayed in town and along the major paved roads, but when it came time to go to work, they did not cut it, and they did not get or keep the market share they inherited from Altel when they bought them out. I was done with AT&T when I couldn't get a signal without walking up on a ridge behind the rig, with a bag phone and directional antenna, but the guy I worked with was walking around the rig talking on a trakphone (ten bucks) talking away. Mrs. Joe was getting text messages up to two weeks after they were sent (yep, snail mail could have beat that).

The bottom line here, is that if you are going to depend on something working, it had better work. It didn't, and Verizon remains the carrier of choice.

In other areas, where other carriers may have more universal coverage, YMMV.

BTW, battery life between charges is related to signal quality. The better the signal, the less power needed for the phone to stay in touch with a tower. If the signal is crappy, the phone sends out a stronger signal to 'find' a tower, and the battery goes dead sooner. (The phone emits stronger RF energy, too).
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline thackney

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Re: Why Verizon is losing more cellphone customers than ever
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2017, 07:08:32 pm »
When Verizon brought back unlimited data (and no it isn't throttled),

https://www.verizonwireless.com/support/new-verizon-plan-unlimited-faqs/

On the new Verizon Plan Unlimited you get our fast LTE speeds. To ensure a quality experience for all customers, after 22 GB of data usage on a line during any billing cycle we may prioritize usage behind other customers during network congestion. This means your data connection could slow down.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Why Verizon is losing more cellphone customers than ever
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2017, 07:47:38 pm »
https://www.verizonwireless.com/support/new-verizon-plan-unlimited-faqs/

On the new Verizon Plan Unlimited you get our fast LTE speeds. To ensure a quality experience for all customers, after 22 GB of data usage on a line during any billing cycle we may prioritize usage behind other customers during network congestion. This means your data connection could slow down.
Twenty two GB per month on one line?

Sweet Jesus, my  first 'real' computer (a Packard Bell) had a hard drive that was a tiny fraction of that....
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline endicom

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Re: Why Verizon is losing more cellphone customers than ever
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2017, 12:17:15 am »
Every year or two I run the numbers on switching from Verizon. When you add in all the hidden fees and the crappy service that others tell me they have, I have yet to find it a savings to move. All the others have to offer is unlimited data. I barely reach the 2 gig limit on my plan and I have 2 phones running on it.


Verizon also has a 15% discount for veterans and active duty.

Online bigheadfred

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Re: Why Verizon is losing more cellphone customers than ever
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2017, 01:11:13 am »
Since Idaho is 20 years behind the rest of the country we should have cell service in ten years or so.
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Offline rodamala

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Re: Why Verizon is losing more cellphone customers than ever
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2017, 01:37:14 am »
Everyone responding to this thread are apparently attempting to refute the facts in the article that Verizon is BLEEDING CUSTOMERS.

The simple reason is Verizon effing SUCKS.  They are liars, and crooks.  I will NEVER be a Verizon customer of any sort again.

Offline endicom

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Re: Why Verizon is losing more cellphone customers than ever
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2017, 02:12:09 am »
Everyone responding to this thread are apparently attempting to refute the facts in the article that Verizon is BLEEDING CUSTOMERS.


Aside from the fact that no one in this thread has said any such thing.

Offline ABX

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Re: Why Verizon is losing more cellphone customers than ever
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2017, 02:41:50 am »
Everyone responding to this thread are apparently attempting to refute the facts in the article that Verizon is BLEEDING CUSTOMERS.

The simple reason is Verizon effing SUCKS.  They are liars, and crooks.  I will NEVER be a Verizon customer of any sort again.

I'll refute it. If you look at the end of quarter numbers, their CHURN rate dropped to .95 percent. That means that .95% of their customers leave each quarter. That is an industry low. Their spike in lost customers over the early part of the quarter was still nothing compared to their competitors. T-Mobile, Sprint, and others usually average 2-3% quarterly CHURN rates.  This article is splitting hairs like saying the Bugatti lost 20 HP on their last oil change but still is averaging over 800HP then comparing it to a Ford Fiesta.

I don't doubt for some reason you had a bad experience, it is obvious from your response, all companies will have individual customers who can say the same thing.  But as someone who follows telecoms closely, their core business invests more than most in not having bad experiences happen. They are the one I invest in because of it. (although a lot of their extended business investments lately have me scratching my head; AOL, Yahoo, etc).

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Why Verizon is losing more cellphone customers than ever
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2017, 02:57:55 am »
Everyone responding to this thread are apparently attempting to refute the facts in the article that Verizon is BLEEDING CUSTOMERS.

The simple reason is Verizon effing SUCKS.  They are liars, and crooks.  I will NEVER be a Verizon customer of any sort again.
Just curious. What market area are you in and who do you prefer (and why)?
 
I gave the reasons why AT&T is lousy here. They said for five years they were improving their network, but not past the end of the sidewalk, or away from the pavement, and most of this state is beyond the end of the sidewalk and down a gravel road (some of the finest gravel roads anywhere, ones you can do 60mph on). I couldn't get a signal (commonly) with a yagi, a wilson dual channel variable gain amp adjusted to peak gain, dialed in directionally on the nearest tower with AT&T, and could talk on Verizon anywhere on the rig. Not just on one location, but time and again. On the highway, AT&T was iffy, and as I said, Mrs. Joe was getting texts from relatives up to two weeks after they were sent--and she was in town. Mine didn't count because I was commonly out of tower range.

So, here, Verizon has the best service. What did they do to earn your ire, and who is better and why?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Bigun

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Re: Why Verizon is losing more cellphone customers than ever
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2017, 03:00:33 am »
I'll refute it. If you look at the end of quarter numbers, their CHURN rate dropped to .95 percent. That means that .95% of their customers leave each quarter. That is an industry low. Their spike in lost customers over the early part of the quarter was still nothing compared to their competitors. T-Mobile, Sprint, and others usually average 2-3% quarterly CHURN rates.  This article is splitting hairs like saying the Bugatti lost 20 HP on their last oil change but still is averaging over 800HP then comparing it to a Ford Fiesta.

I don't doubt for some reason you had a bad experience, it is obvious from your response, all companies will have individual customers who can say the same thing.  But as someone who follows telecoms closely, their core business invests more than most in not having bad experiences happen. They are the one I invest in because of it. (although a lot of their extended business investments lately have me scratching my head; AOL, Yahoo, etc).

I've been a Verizon customer since before Verizon was invented (East Texas Communications) and get treated very well by them because of my loyalty.  I stay with them because they proved me with EXCELLENT service.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

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Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Why Verizon is losing more cellphone customers than ever
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2017, 03:11:37 am »
I've been a Verizon customer since before Verizon was invented (East Texas Communications) and get treated very well by them because of my loyalty.  I stay with them because they proved me with EXCELLENT service.

They have great customer service and they always have people working that know the software and phones. Prior to them I was with AT&T because they were the only game in town in the early 90's. Still have my 3 watt bag phone I bought from them. Best damn phone ever.

Here is something interesting about the early cell phone days I ran across a while back. If you want to avoid the loud mouth introduction go to 2:14.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMQa9AgDmCU