China rejects North Korean coal shipments, opts for US supplies instead

[don-o]

China rejects North Korean coal shipments, opts for US supplies instead

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/04/11/china-rejects-north-korean-coal-shipments-opts-for-us-supplies-instead.html

China has sent a flotilla of North Korean freighters loaded with coking coal back to their home ports, according to an exclusive Reuters report. Meanwhile, China has placed massive orders for the steel-making commodity from U.S. producers.

Information on the Thomson Reuters Eikon financial information and analytics platform revealed that 12 freighters were returning to North Korea.

Reuters attributed news of China’s rejecting North Korean coal to a trading source at Dandong Chengtai Trade Co., which is the biggest buyer of North Korea's coal.

The Dandong Chengtai said it had 600,000 tons of North Korean coal sitting at various ports and that there were 2 million tons stranded at Chinese ports to be sent back to North Korea, Reuters said.

The move reflects China’s public commitment on Feb. 26 to join other nations in punishing North Korea for its continued nuclear weapons and ballistic missile development program. China said in February it was suspending North Korean imports for the rest of this year.

China is North Korea's largest source of trade and aid and targeting coal imports are meant to deprive Pyongyang of an important source of foreign currency.

[don-o]

@LonestarDream

There's a step in the right direction. Plus the editorial in the Global Times that put Fat Boy on notice that an ass kicking was coming if he lit off another nuke.

[don-o]

China Suspends All Coal Imports From North Korea
By CHOE SANG-HUN   FEB. 18, 2017

hmmmmmm

SEOUL, South Korea — China said on Saturday that it was suspending all imports of coal from North Korea as part of its effort to enact United Nations Security Council sanctions aimed at stopping the country’s nuclear weapons and ballistic-missile program.

The ban takes effect on Sunday and will last until the end of the year, the Chinese Commerce Ministry said in a brief statement posted on its website on Saturday. Chinese trade and aid have long been a vital economic crutch for North Korea, and the decision strips North Korea of one of its most important sources of foreign currency.

[kevindavis007]

My guess Trump made China a deal they couldn't refuse.

[don-o]

China’s 'ban' on North Korean coal isn't the tough stance it seems

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/foreign-policy/321552-dont-be-fooled-chinas-ban-on-north-korean-coal-isnt-the

China announced on Feb. 18 that it would stop all coal imports from North Korea. Analysts greeted the news with optimism, suggesting it improves prospects for a U.S.-North Korea nuclear deal or was an attempt by Beijing to curry favor with the Trump administration.

China, however, should not be applauded for doing what it has already promised the international community, and ultimately must do more to address the threat of North Korea’s nuclear program and missiles.

China had issued a ban on North Korean coal imports in April 2016, but later exploited a loophole to let it import $858 million worth nonetheless. Then, in December 2016, Beijing exceeded the monthly U.N.-imposed cap on North Korea’s exports.
snip
--------------------------------------------------------------

istm that Trump strongly suggested that China stop cheating on its agreements.

Meet the new boss; NOT the same as the old boss.

[skeeter]

My guess Trump made China a deal they couldn't refuse.

I hope there's no quid pro quo involving the South China Sea. That there is some bad chinese juju.

[montanajoe]

My guess Trump made China a deal they couldn't refuse.

My guess is that a 5000 year old culture is merely exploiting the current difficulties

[Victoria33]

@don-o

Saw an interview with Trump today and he said something like this: "North Korea is doing bad things."  Then, quoting Trump's actual words, he said, "I've sent an Armada of ships with submarines over there."  Then, he said something like this, "If China doesn't help us, we will do it ourselves."  That was a dumb thing to say - he ratcheted up the idea of actually starting a war, bragging about sending ships and submarines.   The North Korea crazy man will likely drop a nuclear bomb because of this, just because he can.  People are objects to him, killing them is nothing.  I thought Trump would start a war but not this soon.  I hope this doesn't happen.

[Smokin Joe]

I don't know that any quid pro quo is necessary.

China gains by stepping in.

Economic sanctions place them as a first tier powerhouse, economically.

Threats of military action in the event the DPRK doesn't step into line place them on par with the US in that sense, and give them major power status, if not on par with the US in this instance, which improves their hegemony in the region.

The Chinese gain 'face', The US loses none, only fatboy in the DPRk loses. He either backs down or or gets more sanctions and possibly military action against him. Loss of export trade with China will hurt.

[kevindavis007]

I hope there's no quid pro quo involving the South China Sea. That there is some bad chinese juju.

My guess is this...


No high tariffs if you help us out with Fat Boy from NK..

[kevindavis007]

I don't know that any quid pro quo is necessary.

China gains by stepping in.

Economic sanctions place them as a first tier powerhouse, economically.

Threats of military action in the event the DPRK doesn't step into line place them on par with the US in that sense, and give them major power status, if not on par with the US in this instance, which improves their hegemony in the region.

The Chinese gain 'face', The US loses none, only fatboy in the DPRk loses. He either backs down or or gets more sanctions and possibly military action against him. Loss of export trade with China will hurt.

If China does invade, my guess is that the DPRK Army won't do a damn thing.

[Smokin Joe]

If China does invade, my guess is that the DPRK Army won't do a damn thing.

If it wasn't for the Chinese Army, Korea would have been reunited, and my brother might have been born a year or so earlier.

[kevindavis007]

If it wasn't for the Chinese Army, Korea would have been reunited, and my brother might have been born a year or so earlier.

Had MacAurthur stopped on the original boundary I think NK would have been gone by now.  I agree, pretty soon the Chinese are going to get sick of Fat boy.

[don-o]

@don-o

Saw an interview with Trump today and he said something like this: "North Korea is doing bad things."  Then, quoting Trump's actual words, he said, "I've sent an Armada of ships with submarines over there."  Then, he said something like this, "If China doesn't help us, we will do it ourselves."  That was a dumb thing to say - he ratcheted up the idea of actually starting a war, bragging about sending ships and submarines.   The North Korea crazy man will likely drop a nuclear bomb because of this, just because he can.  People are objects to him, killing them is nothing.  I thought Trump would start a war but not this soon.  I hope this doesn't happen.

@Victoria33

Trump is faced with cleaning up the many messes that characterize American foreign policy.

I do not see Trump launching a preemptive strike on the Norks. I can see him shooting down the next missile that the Fat Kid launches.

And I can see China getting dead serious about exercising their power. They have  refocused their belligerent talk AT the Norks.

China Threatens To Bomb North Korea's Nuclear Facilities If It Crosses Beijing's "Bottom Line"

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,258085.msg1288599/topicseen.html#new

[Jazzhead]

Interesting development.   Sounds like a Trump deal -  if the ChiComs keep the pressure on the NORKs, and buy the coal they need from the U.S. to boot, then the ChiComs get - what?   That shoe has yet to drop,  and shouldn't until there's tangible progress in getting rid of Fatboy.   

My worry is that, deprived of its primary source of foreign currency,  the NORKs could well be tempted to sell their nuke technology to the highest nefarious bidder.

[Smokin Joe]

Interesting development.   Sounds like a Trump deal -  if the ChiComs keep the pressure on the NORKs, and buy the coal they need from the U.S. to boot, then the ChiComs get - what?   That shoe has yet to drop,  and shouldn't until there's tangible progress in getting rid of Fatboy.   

My worry is that, deprived of its primary source of foreign currency,  the NORKs could well be tempted to sell their nuke technology to the highest nefarious bidder.

The Chicoms get to at least give the appearance they have the key to the executive washroom and know the secret handshake.

 It's called "Face" and the concept is alive and well. It will make them a regional player for global security by policing their 'hood and not leaving it up to the US, and bumps them up to Major- if not Super-power status, at least in the region.  By using economic sanctions and trade deals, they are an economic power as well.
 
It shows the world they have 'arrived', and aren't just  a bunch of wannabes in a schoolyard spat over offshore rights. It puts them as hegemonic equals with the US in the region.

Those are somewhat intangible assets, but significant, nonetheless.

[don-o]

Interesting development.   Sounds like a Trump deal -  if the ChiComs keep the pressure on the NORKs, and buy the coal they need from the U.S. to boot, then the ChiComs get - what?   That shoe has yet to drop,  and shouldn't until there's tangible progress in getting rid of Fatboy.   

My worry is that, deprived of its primary source of foreign currency,  the NORKs could well be tempted to sell their nuke technology to the highest nefarious bidder.

i guess a known unknown is how much intel China has on the Norks. I would think it's quite extensive,

[don-o]

The Chicoms get to at least give the appearance they have the key to the executive washroom and know the secret handshake.

 It's called "Face" and the concept is alive and well. It will make them a regional player for global security by policing their 'hood and not leaving it up to the US, and bumps them up to Major- if not Super-power status, at least in the region.  By using economic sanctions and trade deals, they are an economic power as well.
 
It shows the world they have 'arrived', and aren't just  a bunch of wannabes in a schoolyard spat over offshore rights. It puts them as hegemonic equals with the US in the region.

Those are somewhat intangible assets, but significant, nonetheless.

Very good observations and, imo, the same could be applied to Russia.  A coherent American foreign policy needs to recognize the legitimate security interests of both those nations, including their border security.

And while it is right to pressure China, our own failure (RE: Iraq) was a tragic blunder and set a very bad example. We were good with Sadaam warring on Iran for ten years. We let him get away with a lot of nasty stuff.

Iraq chemical attacks against Iran

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_chemical_attacks_against_Iran

Then in the first Gulf War, we used half measures and have reaped the whirlwind since. An That war was supposed to have corrected the failing of Viet Nam. Events have proved that it did not.

@LonestarDream

[Victoria33]

@don-o

You said:  "I do not see Trump launching a preemptive strike on the Norks. I can see him shooting down the next missile that the Fat Kid launches."

First, I appreciate you people on the thread being serious about this and not attacking each other with snarky barbs as we try to figure out what may happen in this area of the world.

Due to my background in all things psychological, I automatically evaluate the people involved in a situation.  don-o, all the Fat Kid needs is a false reason to drop a nuclear bomb just because he has one/some.  If Trump shot down a Fat Kid missile, Fat Kid would go ballistic and attack someone and I would bet he would use "the bomb". 

But, I think he doesn't need Trump to shoot down a missile before he would use "the bomb".  Just the fact the "Armada and submarines", as Trump called them, are there is enough to set off Fat Kid.  He has already said if the US provokes North Korea, he will nuclear bomb the United States.  He is the one who will decide what "provokes" means and that could well mean the Armada and submarines are off his coast.  We are dealing with a crazy man (actually two since I think Trump is crazy).  This is as close as we have been to all out war in a long time.

[Smokin Joe]

Very good observations and, imo, the same could be applied to Russia.  A coherent American foreign policy needs to recognize the legitimate security interests of both those nations, including their border security.

And while it is right to pressure China, our own failure (RE: Iraq) was a tragic blunder and set a very bad example. We were good with Sadaam warring on Iran for ten years. We let him get away with a lot of nasty stuff.

Iraq chemical attacks against Iran

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_chemical_attacks_against_Iran

Then in the first Gulf War, we used half measures and have reaped the whirlwind since. An That war was supposed to have corrected the failing of Viet Nam. Events have proved that it did not.

@LonestarDream

The Liberal Media, who were having grey ponytailed orgasmic fantasies of being "relevant" like they were in the 60s, proclaimed Iraq to be "another Vietnam".

Then, just like their ideological forebearers, who lost the Vietnam war despite the military efforts and the ultimate sacrifice of over 58,000 Americans, they propagandized failure and finally managed to elect enough of their own to make their prophesies come true.

Deja vu, all over again.

Once again, the lives and limbs of American Troops were sacrificed on the altar of liberals proving they were 'right', without concern for the consequences for not only the troops on the ground and their families and loved ones, but the people of the nations affected.

Just like Vietnam. The same epithets, the same treatment.

The real 'baby killers' (Liberals: 50,000,000 and counting, since Roe) continue to denigrate our troops. I'd better quit here, it really pisses me off.  :nometalk:

Sorry about the tangent.

Russia and China have to be factored into the superpower matrix of the future, wither in concert or as separate entities. The two out of three vote there could go either way, or change in mid event, and the EU is not going to be a factor because of fragmentation and disunity, so that balancing factor will not be present. Former and present English Commonwealth nations might form a potential bloc, with global distribution (UK, CA, AU), but that will take a while to spool up to the same status, but despite being a welcome addition in terms of hegemony and military contribution, would not likely act as a perceived buffering superpower for a while, if such is desired ever. India may emerge as a major power as well. Two continents (aside from Antarctica) remain pretty much out of the Majors, but one has its own problems as well.

One thing of note, all the major powers either have a bone to pick with the developing Caliphate or will in the near future (EU comes to mind, when it finally wakes up), because the problem children of the world have provoked incidents and are becoming problems everywhere but South America so far.

[Victoria33]

And while it is right to pressure China, our own failure (RE: Iraq) was a tragic blunder and set a very bad example. We were good with Sadaam warring on Iran for ten years. We let him get away with a lot of nasty stuff.

@don-o

I remember that 10 year war and remember when Saddam used gas on Iranian soldiers.

[don-o]

snip

The real 'baby killers' (Liberals: 50,000,000 and counting, since Roe) continue to denigrate our troops. I'd better quit here, it really pisses me off.  :nometalk:

Not my attention to get any danders up. And, speaking of Roe, when the Rescue Movement was smashed by the State, I have sometimes worried that our nation did pass the point of no return.

As far as First Iraq, Hussein should have been removed, put on trial, and executed for war crimes, And Iraq should have been partitioned; as Syria must be.

[EC]

Some good analysis, credit to all so far!

Something to factor in to thinking:

Lil Kim is crazy. There is no doubt at all about that. The techs who actually launch the missiles are not.

It takes some digging, but there is a rather interesting correlation between how PO'd the rest of the world is with NK and NK launch failures. Not something I'd risk my life on completely, but it's a consideration nontheless.

[don-o]

@don-o
 snip

But, I think he doesn't need Trump to shoot down a missile before he would use "the bomb".  Just the fact the "Armada and submarines", as Trump called them, are there is enough to set off Fat Kid.  He has already said if the US provokes North Korea, he will nuclear bomb the United States.  He is the one who will decide what "provokes" means and that could well mean the Armada and submarines are off his coast.  We are dealing with a crazy man (actually two since I think Trump is crazy).  This is as close as we have been to all out war in a long time.

@Victoria33
If that be the case, should we continue sending stern letters?

It is becoming increasingly clear that Trump had a meeting of the minds with Xi, and the surprising move of the Carl Vinson convinced him that Trump was playing hard ball.

I put up a thread, for the purpose of getting perspective and bringing into clear focus, how big a mess obama created. Getting it cleaned up is going to be a close run thing, at best.

Re: The Cairo Speech (How quickly we forget)
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,258184.msg1289039.html#msg1289039

[Smokin Joe]

Not my attention to get any danders up. And, speaking of Roe, when the Rescue Movement was smashed by the State, I have sometimes worried that our nation did pass the point of no return.

As far as First Iraq, Hussein should have been removed, put on trial, and executed for war crimes, And Iraq should have been partitioned; as Syria must be.

Those partitions will have to occur on tribal lines to be stable, something the English  Partition ignored. Instead (and perhaps intentionally) tribal factions were split by national boundaries ensuring internal conflict for individual nations, and a lack of focused tribal based cohesiveness, something which might prove advantageous for exploitative purposes, but which stinks in terms of national stability. It is the primary reason every Islamic nation in the region ends up with a SOB at the helm who can keep the factions in check, and internal conflict simmering constantly on the back burner, when it isn't boiling over.
Obama and Hillary (and Kerry) took advantage of that simmering internal friction to destabilize numerous governments in the Mediterranean region with finances and arms.

Recall, though in 2007 (still on 'W's watch):

Various Nonstandard Ammunition for Islamic Republic of Afghanistan, Afghanistan National Security Forces and the Government of Iraq. The US Army Sustainment Command (ASC) intends to issue a Request for Proposal (RFP), W52P1J-07-R-0104, to the Army Single Face to Industry Web(ASFI) at https://acquisition.army.mil/asfi/ on or about June 20, 2007 with a closing date of 30 days after issuance. This is a Foreign Military Sales RFP for FY 2007 Afghanistan and Iraq requirements.

Due to the importance of deliveries and the volume of ammunition required, the Government will award individual contracts for the three (3) requirements (1 for the Afghanistan requirements and 2 for the Iraq requirements). All three requirements shall all be firm-fixed price with 100% options. Options may be exercised within 3 months of contract award. Although offerors are restricted to a single Iraq award, it may be eligible for the Afghanistan award also. The materiel must be from new production or new surplus manufactured within last 20 years and serviceable without qualifications.

The following is a list of items that will be solicited:

AFGHANISTAN REQUIREMENTS LISTING ITEM, WEAPON SYSTEM, QTY
- 40MM SPONGE ROUND, MOSSBERG M590A1, 20,613
- 40MM 60 CAL STINGER, MOSSBERG M590A1, 20,505
- 40MM LIQUID FERRET-CS, MOSSBERG M590A1, 20,500
- STINGER RUBBER BALL GRENADE, N/A, 10,000
- OC/CS AEROSOL GRENADE, N/A, 10,000
- HC MILITARY STYLE SMOKE, N/A, 10,000
- MULTI-PORT PLUS FLASH BANG, N/A, 10,000
- MULTI-PORT PLUS 15 GRAM RELOAD, N/A, 10,000
- 12 GAUGE BEAN BAG, MOSSBERG M590A1, 800
- 12 GAUGE LAUNCHING ROUND (SPECIAL), MOSSBERG M590A1, 400
- 12 GAUGE RUBBER FIN STABILIZED, MOSSBERG M590A1, 950
- GRENADE RUBBER/STING BALL, MOSSBERG M590A1, 100
- GRENADE HAND NL M84, MOSSBERG M590A1, 100
- CANISTER GRENADE CS PYRO LOW FLAME, N/A, 97
- FLASH BANG, TRAINING FUSE & BODY, N/A, 50
- HC SMOKE WHITE FLAMELESS CANISTER, N/A, 6
- GRENADE STING BALL OC, N/A, 4
- LAUNCHING CUP 12 GAUGE CANISTER, MOSSBERG M590A1, 10
- LAUNCHING CUP 12 GAUGE STRING BALL, MOSSBERG M590A1, 10
- MK9 OC SPRAY CANISTER, N/A, 25
- MK4 STREAMER CANISTER OC, N/A, 75
- MK9 FOGGER OC, N/A, 20
- PISTOL GRIP CROWD CONTROL OC SPRAY, N/A, 5
- PG-7VM, 70.5MM STD HEAT, RPG-7 LAUNCHER, 576
- PG-7VL, 93MM STD HEAT, RPG-7 LAUNCHER, 216
- AMMO BELT W/CAN FOR 7.62X54MM (250 ROUND), PKM, 4,000
- AMMO BELT W/CAN FOR 12.7X108MM (50-70 ROUND), YAKB 1,000
- AMMO BELT FOR 30MM MACHINE GUN, GSH-30, 500
- LINKING MACHINE FOR 7.62X54MM, PKM MACHINE GUN, 40
- LINKING MACHINE FOR 12.7X108MM, YAKB, 20
- LINKING MACHINE FOR 30MM MACHINE GUN, GSH-30, 10
- SPG-9 PROPELLANT (ELECTRICALLY IGNITED, GROUND MOUNT), SPG-9, 10,000

IRAQ A REQUIREMENTS ITEM, WEAPON SYSTEM, QTY
- 12 GAUGE BREACHING ROUND, MOSSBERG SHOTGUN, 2,500
- 9MM BALL, GLOCK PISTOL, 24,000,000
- 7.62 X 39MM BALL, AK47 ASSAULT RIFLE, 55,200,000
- 7.62 X 54MM BALL W/ LINKS, PKM MACHINE GUN, 18,000,000
- OG-7V 40MM HE, RPG-7 GRENADE LAUNCHER, 20,000
- 7.62 X 54MM SNIPER, SVD SNIPER RIFLE, 2,500
- HC MILITARY STYLE SMOKE WHITE, N/A, 1,000

IRAQ B REQUIREMENTS ITEM, WEAPON SYSTEM, QTY
- 9MM BALL, GLOCK PISTOL, 16,000,000
- 7.62 X 39MM BALL, AK47 ASSAULT RIFLE, 36,800,000
- 7.62 X 54MM BALL W/ LINKS, PKM MACHINE GUN, 12,000,000

- The weapons in this synopsis are for reference purposes only, the intent of this procurement is to purchase the ammunition for the weapons listed above. Delivery and FOB terms shall be included in the solicitation. All contractors who provide goods/services to the Department of Defense (DOD) must be registered in the Central Contractors Register (CCR). If you are not registered in CCR, you cannot be awarded a DoD contract. The Internet site for registering in the C CR is http://www.ccr.gov/. You may also contact the CCR Registration Assistance Center at 1-888-227-2423, customer service, and request the registration form and assistance packet for completion. Direct any questions prior to the applicable closing date in writing to: Headquarters, US Army Sustainment Command, ATTN: AMSAS-ACA-R/Gerry Haan 1 Rock Island Arsenal, Rock Island, IL 61299-6500 telephone number (309) 782-5155.

http://www.fbo.gov/spg/USA/USAMC/DAAA09/W52P1J07R0104/Modification%2001.html (original link, now broke)

The price went up here, but did the ammo go there? It takes time to fill those contracts, and there is no guarantee it ended up in the hands it was intended for, especially with the change in management here.

Daddy Bush should have taken the high road and pushed for the elimination of Saddam, but instead went the easy route to build a coalition and simply clear Iraq out of Kuwait. The demolition of oil production sites during the Iraqi withdrawal could have rated as a crime against humanity; the case for removal of Saddam could have been made. It might even have overcome the "read my lips" optic enough for Americans to get behind him and reelect him, which would have possibly deprived us of the Clintons. (I'll leave that for the Alternate History writers, but it could be meat for that genre.)

We know Saddam was a nasty SOB, and that it ran in the family, but the Iranians weren't exactly saints either, taking 'developmentally disabled' kids and "radicalizing" them so they'd roll prone through minefields and clear pathways for following troops. Islamists at their very best.

While Saddam was a foil to the Shia' in Iran, he was useful, and it kept both off the Saudis backs, and away from Israel. When Saddam became a threat to Israel, the segments of his super cannon were intercepted in England, the design engineer woke up dead in the morning, and we found more reasons to attack and finally finish the job.