Author Topic: Conservative 'Purism' Doesn't Threaten The Movement. Trump Purism Does.  (Read 2864 times)

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Silver Pines

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Conservative 'Purism' Doesn't Threaten The Movement. Trump Purism Does.

By Ben Shapiro
March 28, 2017


On Tuesday, Dennis Prager – a man I consider a good friend and political mentor -- penned a column in which he derided conservative “purists” for killing President Trump’s American Health Care Act. As one of the people in favor of killing that misbegotten piece of legislation, which re-enshrined the central principles of Obamacare while exacerbating the private health insurance death spiral, created a new entitlement program, and was wildly unpopular to boot (17 percent approval rating), I feel compelled to respond to Dennis’ piece in the spirit of respectful debate. I don’t believe it required purity to oppose the bill – only political common sense and a cost-benefit analysis. The Republican Party was unanimous in its dedication to repealing Obamacare; that political promise bought them complete control of the federal government. This bill broke that promise.

But Dennis’ main argument is that conservative purity makes the perfect the enemy of the good. Dennis writes, “what we have here is another conservative example of purism and principle damaging another major opportunity to do good.”

Dennis then returns to the old Never Trump vs. pro-Trump argument, stating that purism risked making Hillary president. He says that there were “no valid reasons” to oppose Trump in the general election, and says that Trump’s policies have validated him “beyond my wildest dreams.”

Dennis doesn’t acknowledge the basic argument of the Never Trump conservatives or those who agonized over whether to support him – not that Trump wouldn’t do some conservative things, but that he would inevitably soul-suck the conservative movement to the point where they would celebrate bad policy and blame actual conservatives for failing to go along with the program. It wasn’t that Never Trumpers and doubtful Trumpers were purists – I voted for both John McCain and Mitt Romney, both of whom I opposed ardently in the Republican primaries. It was that Never Trumpers and even many who agonized over Trump were afraid that conservatives would become Trump purists – people who considered Trump the be-all, end-all of conservatism, the last best hope of humanity, the root and branch of the movement. We were afraid that Trump’s obvious discomfort with conservatism would eventually convert conservatives themselves from their philosophy in order to assuage their cognitive dissonance. Trump purism, in short, would corrupt conservatism.

Read more at:

http://www.dailywire.com/news/14875/conservative-purism-doesnt-threaten-movement-trump-ben-shapiro

Offline the_doc

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OUTSTANDING ANALYSIS by Shapiro.  Thanks, Catherine!

Offline Frank Cannon

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This article is hilarious from the smarmy little bastard who is so rigidly anti-Trump that he bemoans Donny's choice of tie in the morning.

#NeverTrump = #AlwaysTrump in their mindless stupidity.

Offline the_doc

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This article is hilarious from the smarmy little bastard who is so rigidly anti-Trump that he bemoans Donny's choice of tie in the morning.

#NeverTrump = #AlwaysTrump in their mindless stupidity.

I agree, @Frank Cannon, that the article is funny--regardless of who wrote it.  But I think it's correct.  (Now, that is funny, indeed, don't you think?)

Offline Cripplecreek

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Those who resist becoming lil Trumpee clones are the enemies.

Offline INVAR

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...many who agonized over Trump were afraid that conservatives would become Trump purists – people who considered Trump the be-all, end-all of conservatism, the last best hope of humanity, the root and branch of the movement. We were afraid that Trump’s obvious discomfort with conservatism would eventually convert conservatives themselves from their philosophy in order to assuage their cognitive dissonance. Trump purism, in short, would corrupt conservatism.

That is a past-tense fact.  Conservatism as a political institution has already been corrupted to the point of irredeemability.

You even have self-identifying Conservatives applauding Trump working with the Democrats in order to bypass Conservative opposition in the Congress, and bashing all opposition to overt Statism hidden in an effort to protect and maintain ObamaCare as opposed to getting rid of it outright as they promised.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline XenaLee

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Funny how.... when Democrats refuse to compromise or give in on their progressive stance, they're called dedicated and are merely accused of holding fast to their "principles" (term used loosely in their case). 

But when Conservatives refuse to compromise or, in this case, to cave in to the more moderate GOPers (liberals) on legislation that is bad for America (another crap sammich)....they're called "perfectionists" and "purists". 

Offhand, I'd have to say that's one helluva double standard goin there.  As is usually the case if/when it's the leftist liberals and/or the Republicans In Name Only making those accusations.

No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline Frank Cannon

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I agree, @Frank Cannon, that the article is funny--regardless of who wrote it.  But I think it's correct.  (Now, that is funny, indeed, don't you think?)

What's funny about breaking Pregers balls about being intractable on Trump stuff while good old Bennie wakes up everyday hating on every GD thing Trump does even though there are a bunch of tangible good things coming from the administration.

The worship of Trump as unerring and infallible is more of a danger to conservatism than conservatives demanding that Trump and Republicans actually do as they promised.

Where was Bennie's Jihad over all the broken promises from Bush? Oh yeah. He was still in High School having the football jocks stuff him in a locker. That is why I don't get my political philosophy from children. They have no perspective.

Silver Pines

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OUTSTANDING ANALYSIS by Shapiro.  Thanks, Catherine!

@the_doc

You're welcome.  He nails it, as usual.

Silver Pines

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This article is hilarious from the smarmy little bastard who is so rigidly anti-Trump that he bemoans Donny's choice of tie in the morning.

#NeverTrump = #AlwaysTrump in their mindless stupidity.

@Frank Cannon

Lol, come on Frank, you know Shapiro's good.  Besides, you've been raging at Trump lately yourself.

Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: Conservative 'Purism' Doesn't Threaten The Movement. Trump Purism Does.
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2017, 09:11:38 pm »
That is a past-tense fact.  Conservatism as a political institution has already been corrupted to the point of irredeemability.

You even have self-identifying Conservatives applauding Trump working with the Democrats in order to bypass Conservative opposition in the Congress, and bashing all opposition to overt Statism hidden in an effort to protect and maintain ObamaCare as opposed to getting rid of it outright as they promised.

On virtually every issue they defend the leftward swing.

How would conservatives behave if Obama had asked the unions to send him a wish list of projects they want the taxpayers to fund?


Trump requests, and receives, infrastructure priority list from builders union


http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,255875.0.html


Offline Emjay

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Re: Conservative 'Purism' Doesn't Threaten The Movement. Trump Purism Does.
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2017, 09:11:50 pm »
Those who resist becoming lil Trumpee clones are the enemies.

That comment shows nothing but your ignorance.

It is completely possible to support Trump and his policies against a whole hoard of people who would destroy this country if they could.  Barack Obama, Hillary and Bill Clinton, Maxine Waters, Chuck You Schumer, Nancy Pelosi and 90% of the press.

I don't know what you people think you are doing but I support most of what Trump has done so far and I am neither little or a trumpee.

What I am wondering is what you are?
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Silver Pines

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Re: Conservative 'Purism' Doesn't Threaten The Movement. Trump Purism Does.
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2017, 09:12:03 pm »
Funny how.... when Democrats refuse to compromise or give in on their progressive stance, they're called dedicated and are merely accused of holding fast to their "principles" (term used loosely in their case). 

But when Conservatives refuse to compromise or, in this case, to cave in to the more moderate GOPers (liberals) on legislation that is bad for America (another crap sammich)....they're called "perfectionists" and "purists". 

Offhand, I'd have to say that's one helluva double standard goin there.  As is usually the case if/when it's the leftist liberals and/or the Republicans In Name Only making those accusations.

@XenaLee

If conservatives would learn to care less about what others think, some things might actually get done.

Offline XenaLee

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Re: Conservative 'Purism' Doesn't Threaten The Movement. Trump Purism Does.
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2017, 09:15:36 pm »
@XenaLee

If conservatives would learn to care less about what others think, some things might actually get done.

I can't speak for other conservatives, but for myself..... I couldn't possibly care less what others think.  I always will, however, make comments and observations about the hypocrisy and double standards that the idiot left (and their cohorts in the GOP) always display.   :laugh:

No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline anubias

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Re: Conservative 'Purism' Doesn't Threaten The Movement. Trump Purism Does.
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2017, 09:15:39 pm »
Shapiro is a sellout.  I listen to nothing he has to say because of it.

Before he was funded by the Wilks brothers, he wrote this:  https://townhall.com/columnists/benshapiro/2011/04/13/the-magic-of-donald-trump-n1395003

After the funding, he danced to the Wilks brothers tune and became Pro-Cruz which I would respect and admire if he had done it for principles instead of financial gain. 

He teamed up with Michelle Fields  for the hoax that many of us fell for, including myself, that proved them both to be liars.

The boy had a bright future, but has zero credibility in my book.

Offline Emjay

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Re: Conservative 'Purism' Doesn't Threaten The Movement. Trump Purism Does.
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2017, 09:18:01 pm »
@XenaLee

If conservatives would learn to care less about what others think, some things might actually get done.

What is your basis for that, other than the fact that most of us care a little bit about what others think and people in congress need to care about what others think as a practical matter.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline XenaLee

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Re: Conservative 'Purism' Doesn't Threaten The Movement. Trump Purism Does.
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2017, 09:24:14 pm »
That comment shows nothing but your ignorance.

It is completely possible to support Trump and his policies against a whole hoard of people who would destroy this country if they could.  Barack Obama, Hillary and Bill Clinton, Maxine Waters, Chuck You Schumer, Nancy Pelosi and 90% of the press.

I don't know what you people think you are doing but I support most of what Trump has done so far and I am neither little or a trumpee.

What I am wondering is what you are?

So far.... the main thing that I don't support Trump for is the RyanCare bill he has been pushing.  As for most everything else he has done, is doing and says he will do.... I'm in agreement. 

For instance, if this graphic (link below) is accurately reflective of what Trump actually will do Budget wise, I am fully onboard.   That doesn't mean I support him on 'every' issue, though.

This 2018 budget may turn out to be an unrealistic wishlist and pie in the sky dreaming.... but I can dream, can't I?   :laugh:

https://w.graphiq.com/w/dZzhb2nv4eV?data-href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.graphiq.com%2Fvlp%2FdZzhb2nv4eV&data-height=585&data-width=600&data-script-version=true&data-sv=1.2.0&data-index=0

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/white-house-eyeing-18-billion-list-social-program-102956996--finance.html
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Silver Pines

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Re: Conservative 'Purism' Doesn't Threaten The Movement. Trump Purism Does.
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2017, 09:25:33 pm »
I can't speak for other conservatives, but for myself..... I couldn't possibly care less what others think.  I always will, however, make comments and observations about the hypocrisy and double standards that the idiot left (and their cohorts in the GOP) always display.   :laugh:

Yep, same here.

Offline Emjay

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Re: Conservative 'Purism' Doesn't Threaten The Movement. Trump Purism Does.
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2017, 09:32:15 pm »
So far.... the main thing that I don't support Trump for is the RyanCare bill he has been pushing.  As for most everything else he has done, is doing and says he will do.... I'm in agreement. 

For instance, if this graphic (link below) is accurately reflective of what Trump actually will do Budget wise, I am fully onboard.   That doesn't mean I support him on 'every' issue, though.

This 2018 budget may turn out to be an unrealistic wishlist and pie in the sky dreaming.... but I can dream, can't I?   :laugh:

https://w.graphiq.com/w/dZzhb2nv4eV?data-href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.graphiq.com%2Fvlp%2FdZzhb2nv4eV&data-height=585&data-width=600&data-script-version=true&data-sv=1.2.0&data-index=0

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/white-house-eyeing-18-billion-list-social-program-102956996--finance.html

Yes, the healthcare bill is a negative unless it is remedied soon.  But I agree with you about the budget bill and a lot of other things.

Nobody will be able to support Trump on every issue (his mother is dead) but total negativity is doing no good for anybody.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Silver Pines

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Re: Conservative 'Purism' Doesn't Threaten The Movement. Trump Purism Does.
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2017, 09:32:15 pm »
Shapiro is a sellout.  I listen to nothing he has to say because of it.

Before he was funded by the Wilks brothers, he wrote this:  https://townhall.com/columnists/benshapiro/2011/04/13/the-magic-of-donald-trump-n1395003

After the funding, he danced to the Wilks brothers tune and became Pro-Cruz which I would respect and admire if he had done it for principles instead of financial gain. 

He teamed up with Michelle Fields  for the hoax that many of us fell for, including myself, that proved them both to be liars.

The boy had a bright future, but has zero credibility in my book.

@anubias

I don't know anything about the Wilks brothers or who they are, but that column was written six years ago.  People can learn and change over time.  Ben was in his twenties when he authored the Townhall piece.

Shapiro travels to colleges all across the country, explaining conservatism to kids who don't have a clue about it, smacking down leftists, and quite frequently defying their stupid bans on his presence. 

That's why when I used to see Freepers mock and dismiss him from their sagging recliners, it always made me laugh.

Silver Pines

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Re: Conservative 'Purism' Doesn't Threaten The Movement. Trump Purism Does.
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2017, 09:33:18 pm »
What is your basis for that, other than the fact that most of us care a little bit about what others think and people in congress need to care about what others think as a practical matter.

Actually, @Emjay, I was talking about the Republicans in Washington. 

Offline Emjay

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Re: Conservative 'Purism' Doesn't Threaten The Movement. Trump Purism Does.
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2017, 09:35:51 pm »
Actually, @Emjay, I was talking about the Republicans in Washington.

Well, so was I.  I mentioned as much.  Republicans need to care, or at least know, what other Republicans are thinking and planning.  That doesn't mean it should influence their stands on issues but ignorance is not necessary bliss.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Silver Pines

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Re: Conservative 'Purism' Doesn't Threaten The Movement. Trump Purism Does.
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2017, 09:42:53 pm »
Well, so was I.  I mentioned as much.  Republicans need to care, or at least know, what other Republicans are thinking and planning.  That doesn't mean it should influence their stands on issues but ignorance is not necessary bliss.

@Emjay

I have no doubt the GOP will continue to worry about how they appear to the left and just about everybody else except the people they constantly lie to, timid creatures that they are.  You can applaud that if you want. 

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Re: Conservative 'Purism' Doesn't Threaten The Movement. Trump Purism Does.
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2017, 09:43:36 pm »
Well, so was I.  I mentioned as much.  Republicans need to care, or at least know, what other Republicans are thinking and planning.  That doesn't mean it should influence their stands on issues but ignorance is not necessary bliss.

They care!  What they care about is the problem!  They care about keeping their "work" half a year for $200K jobs for as long as possible and then, when they retire voluntarily or otherwise,  go to work for a K street firm making a cool $1 Mil or more every year!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline endicom

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Re: Conservative 'Purism' Doesn't Threaten The Movement. Trump Purism Does.
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2017, 09:49:39 pm »
Trump purism? Trump is pragmatic so what the hell would 'Trump purism' be?