Author Topic: Trump accused the Freedom Caucus of 'saving' Obamacare. Its leader said it's not over.  (Read 44958 times)

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Offline EasyAce

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Sometimes I get the impression that to too many people the Tenth Amendment means little to nothing anymore.


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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Only a Communist would think that government regulation of private industry, business and property sets and creates the conditions for the free market.

There it is.  Government is there to create "fairness" and "Equality".  Right out of Marx and Engels.


@INVAR

Quote
Indeed,  sound government regulation can set the conditions for free markets to flourish, by establishing a playing field that allows competition to proceed fairly,  and instills confidence by consumers.

I had to scroll back a bit.  The boy actually said that. My extraordinarily sad cranium is swaying back and forth.  Just heck.  It calls itself a conservative Republican. 
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline INVAR

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I had to scroll back a bit.  The boy actually said that. My extraordinarily sad cranium is swaying back and forth.  Just heck.  It calls itself a conservative Republican.

It's a deliberate deception.

We know why he is here and why he posts what he does.

He is not deceiving anyone, though he thinks that those who read the forum and do not reply very often are going to be persuaded by his rebranding of Communism as "Pragmatic Conservatism", which of course is neither pragmatic or Conservative.

It's Marx.  It's Engels.  It's Das Kapital.  It's tyranny hidden under the clever Liberal guises of 'fairness', 'equality', and 'level playing fields' against we 'lucky winners of life's lottery'.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Bigun

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It's a deliberate deception.

We know why he is here and why he posts what he does.

He is not deceiving anyone, though he thinks that those who read the forum and do not reply very often are going to be persuaded by his rebranding of Communism as "Pragmatic Conservatism", which of course is neither pragmatic or Conservative.

It's Marx.  It's Engels.  It's Das Kapital.  It's tyranny hidden under the clever Liberal guises of 'fairness', 'equality', and 'level playing fields' against we 'lucky winners of life's lottery'.

Yep!

Just like the intelligentsia have labeled Cultural Marxism as political correctness to avoid calling it what it actually is!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

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Offline Jazzhead

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You really should check a mirror once in a while.

So do you think your dad on Social Security is a welfare dependent slave?

Care to defend INVAR's cruelty as conservative?   

   
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Offline Hoodat

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So do you think your dad on Social Security is a welfare dependent slave?

Is it his dad's money?  Or is it someone else's money taken at the point of a gun.
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Offline INVAR

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So do you think your dad on Social Security is a welfare dependent slave?

I do not recall specifically itemizing SocSec as Welfare, considering the dividend paid is said to be taken directly out of our paychecks.  My Dad paid into SocSec for 50 years.  He receives that which he paid into it.

I will not be able to say the same, because by the time I reach retirement age, there will not be any funds to pay out - even though they take it out of my paycheck and self-employment taxes.  I'm not even going to discuss the mythical SocSec trust fund, because there is no such thing.

But that said - once on SocSec - you are limited on the amount of money you are permitted to earn in a year (I think it's 40k or something) without reduction or cancellation of your benefits.  SocSec is a Ponzi Scheme - and- being forced to play means we are either stupid, or slaves.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline roamer_1

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So do you think your dad on Social Security is a welfare dependent slave?

Yes, after a fashion. The responsibility to take care of the old and infirm falls firstly on the family. Withholdings reserved for social security take that money from the immediate need in the family, and that, in an inter-generational extension, makes it much more difficult for that family to attain wealth in itself and care for it's own.

To extrapolate, high taxes to support this overweening governmental system nigh on prevent the acquisition of wealth. It is damn hard in this country to do as well as our fathers did... Do you think that might have anything at all to do with working for the government till July every year?

Your socialism lowers all boats. To include the lot of the elderly. Thus they must look to government for a paltry check rather than rely on their sons and daughters, who, having wealth to spare, would treat them far better.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 04:44:55 am by roamer_1 »

Offline XenaLee

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So do you think your dad on Social Security is a welfare dependent slave?

Care to defend INVAR's cruelty as conservative?   

 

There is, in my opinion and experience, nothing more cruel than communism.... which is just socialism without the smiley face.  Government control over all by making as many dependent upon government as possible.  My dad paid into social security his entire working life as did my mom and as have I.  We had no choice.  For you to compare social security to welfare is typical of the duplicitous (lying) nature of your average leftist.  But hey.... thanks for showing (as usual and daily) who and what you are.  You really are a case study.

No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Simply repealing the ACA with no provision for the consequences is what will create the mess.    Hardship for ordinary Americans who obtained health coverage in good faith, and political blowback that will deliver the House to the Dems in 2018.   
NOT repealing it is what will deliver the House to the Dems. Why in the Hell should anyone vote for someone who goes back on their promises?
Going back on:
"READ MY LIPS, NO NEW TAXES."

gave us Bill and Hillary, and here we go again. Trump will just have to hold the fort while the new challengers step up for 2020.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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What an bleep you are.   Plenty of good folks lost their jobs in the last recession and have been able to acquire peace of mind by the ability to obtain health coverage under the ACA.
With what? Their good looks? No money. That means Medicaid. Let me tell you something about Medicaid. Although the rules vary from state to state, here, at least you aren't eligible unless you have under 10K in assets. You're 48, worked hard all your life, have equity in your home, two cars in the garage, a little investment portfolio and lose your job. The COBRA plan payments are way beyond what you can afford, even with a trickle of unemployment, which won't last, and barely pays the bills. In order to get Medicaid, though you have to either: Divorce and let your wife get it without assets. Divest yourself of your assets (and it is a Felony to 'dump' them to a trustworthy relative to hold for you at below market value), or do without. You may even have lost your job because of the ACA.  If you acquired a diagnosis of an ongoing or even 'cured' ailment, now you have no job, no insurance, a 'preexisting condition' when you go to get health insurance again (yes the ACA created a huge pool of folks in that category now, even though they had things under control). The ACA is a huge turd that splashed down in the healthcare punch bowl and splashing around the edges isn't going to make the punch potable again. Six percent of Americans were not covered before, now it is worse.
Quote

I understand the ACA's problems,  and the need to fix it fundamentally.   
Horse biscuits!
Quote
But these folks are as virtuous, if not more so, than you.
What folks? The 1.3 million who mostly acquired that nasty incurable "lifestyle-related" disease that made them uninsurable? Who at present are projected to have a trillion dollar doctor bill on the way over their lifetimes? Was this a favor to the guys who hang out over by the Iwo Jima Statue late at night, or the K-street crowd? It sure didn't do anything to help the people.
   http://www.lifenews.com/2013/12/31/more-people-have-lost-insurance-under-obamacare-than-signed-up-for-it/

http://nypost.com/2014/01/14/another-25-million-obamacare-victims/

http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/212961/13-people-lost-health-insurance-every-person-daniel-greenfield

I personally lost my insurance when my carrier quit offering health policies, period, thanks to the ACA. Some wonderful program. On the exchanges, replacing that policy with one which has nearly 3X the deductible, higher co-pays, and premiums that are over 5X what I paid before, is not only not an option, but not going to happen. Being fined for not doing so is criminal.
Quote
And for you to deride them as "welfare dependent slaves"?   
It wasn't the average working stiff who benefited, so suppose you dump some demographic data as to who is benefiting? Give sources, too.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 08:09:10 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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With what? Their good looks? No money. That means Medicaid. Let me tell you something about Medicaid. Although the rules vary from state to state, here, at least you aren't eligible unless you have under 10K in assets. You're 48, worked hard all your life, have equity in your home, two cars in the garage, a little investment portfolio and lose your job. The COBRA plan payments are way beyond what you can afford, even with a trickle of unemployment, which won't last, and barely pays the bills. In order to get Medicaid, though you have to either: Divorce and let your wife get it without assets. Divest yourself of your assets (and it is a Felony to 'dump' them to a trustworthy relative to hold for you at below market value), or do without. You may even have lost your job because of the ACA.  If you acquired a diagnosis of an ongoing or even 'cured' ailment, now you have no job, no insurance, a 'preexisting condition' when you go to get health insurance again (yes the ACA created a huge pool of folks in that category now, even though they had things under control). The ACA is a huge turd that splashed down in the healthcare punch bowl and splashing around the edges isn't going to make the punch potable again. Six percent of Americans were not covered before, now it is worse.  Horse biscuits!  What folks? The 1.3 million who mostly acquired that nasty incurable "lifestyle-related" disease that made them uninsurable? Who at present are projected to have a trillion dollar doctor bill on the way over their lifetimes? Was this a favor to the guys who hang out over by the Iwo Jima Statue late at night, or the K-street crowd? It sure didn't do anything to help the people.
   http://www.lifenews.com/2013/12/31/more-people-have-lost-insurance-under-obamacare-than-signed-up-for-it/

http://nypost.com/2014/01/14/another-25-million-obamacare-victims/

http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/212961/13-people-lost-health-insurance-every-person-daniel-greenfield

I personally lost my insurance when my carrier quit offering health policies, period, thanks to the ACA. Some wonderful program. On the exchanges, replacing that policy with one which has nearly 3X the deductible, higher co-pays, and premiums that are over 5X what I paid before, is not only not an option, but not going to happen. Being fined for not doing so is criminal.It wasn't the average working stiff who benefited, so suppose you dump some demographic data as to who is benefiting? Give sources, too.

Let's not forget that Trump/Ryan care would have left more people without insurance than a straight up repeal. It was a flat up turkey. It might help some folks feel good about taking more of our money, but it was not effective at helping folks.

As I see it there is nothing more cruel than penalizing I mean taxing people who can't afford a product. I think being forced to buy a product simply because one is breathing as being anathema to freedom.
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline INVAR

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As I see it there is nothing more cruel than penalizing I mean taxing people who can't afford a product. I think being forced to buy a product simply because one is breathing as being anathema to freedom.

You are a cruel, selfish, racist, xenophobic, homophobic Fascist, who hopes poor people, the elderly and puppies die in agony while you bask in your white privilege and your stolen wealth taken from minorities and the homosexually persecuted.

Just channeling the resident Liberal response for you.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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You are a cruel, selfish, racist, xenophobic, homophobic Fascist, who hopes poor people, the elderly and puppies die in agony while you bask in your white privilege and your stolen wealth taken from minorities and the homosexually persecuted.

Just channeling the resident Liberal response for you.
You forgot that I want them to eat Alpo.  :laugh:
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline Cyber Liberty

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As I see it there is nothing more cruel than penalizing I mean taxing people who can't afford a product. I think being forced to buy a product simply because one is breathing as being anathema to freedom.

You mean dressing it up by calling it the Individual Shared Responsibility Payment doesn't impress you?  Me neither.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline INVAR

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You forgot that I want them to eat Alpo.  :laugh:

It was implied... and they usually save that charge when there is ever any talk of tax cuts or government shut downs.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Cyber Liberty

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You forgot that I want them to eat Alpo.  :laugh:

@Idaho_Cowboy @INVAR

You both forgot "A**hole."  We're all A-holes.  And without virtue. 
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline txradioguy

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@Idaho_Cowboy @INVAR

You both forgot "A**hole."  We're all A-holes.  And without virtue.

Y'all may be a-holes...but I'm the Pope!  :tongue2:
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Y'all may be a-holes...but I'm the Pope!  :tongue2:

Pope of a Dump, you mean.   :whistle:
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline INVAR

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@Idaho_Cowboy @INVAR

You both forgot "A**hole."  We're all A-holes.  And without virtue.

Y'all may be a-holes...but I'm the Pope!  :tongue2:

Pope of a Dump, you mean.   :whistle:

No, we should not forget we are hubris, selfish, homophobic, forcing women to reproduce reprehensible a**holes in this pope of a dump according to our resident Leftist.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline txradioguy

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No, we should not forget we are hubris, selfish, homophobic, forcing women to reproduce reprehensible a**holes in this pope of a dump according to our resident Leftist.

Just like when any other member of Du calls me names...coming from them/him...I take it as a compliment.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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@bilo

I'm guessing you don't have a small business.

My business was turned upside down by obamacare. The limited policy I could offer employees was no longer available. I had to let most employees go and hire back some as contractors. My own insurance tripled in cost until I joined a Christian Healthcare co-op. I stopped my plans for growth in the USA and began investing a part of my business in Central America.


I'm guessing you're referring to the employer mandate.   The requirement that you either provide affordable insurance, or pay the tax penalty, for all full-time employees.  Is that correct?   I've got a couple of clients in that exact same position, and it really hurt them as well.  They're in low-wage, labor intensive industries, and the mandate is a huge burden for them.


Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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I personally lost my insurance when my carrier quit offering health policies, period, thanks to the ACA. Some wonderful program. On the exchanges, replacing that policy with one which has nearly 3X the deductible, higher co-pays, and premiums that are over 5X what I paid before, is not only not an option, but not going to happen. Being fined for not doing so is criminal.It wasn't the average working stiff who benefited, so suppose you dump some demographic data as to who is benefiting? Give sources, too.

I just want to point out that the AHCA would have repealed the employer mandate, and repealed the individual mandate, so you wouldn't be fined for not having a policy.  More importantly, one of the last compromises offered would have eliminated the "essential health benefits", which were a big reason that the costs ran up on policies because policies were required to offer certain things that a great many people didn't want.

It honestly would have made legally viable, once again, the kind of policies a lot of people had prior to ObamaCare.

Offline INVAR

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You do not leave parts of the tumor in the patient because it is the best you can get in negotiating with your surgeon.

You cut it all out, not leave the pieces that are too hard to dislodge from the body.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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I just want to point out that the AHCA would have repealed the employer mandate, and repealed the individual mandate, so you wouldn't be fined for not having a policy.  More importantly, one of the last compromises offered would have eliminated the "essential health benefits", which were a big reason that the costs ran up on policies because policies were required to offer certain things that a great many people didn't want.

It honestly would have made legally viable, once again, the kind of policies a lot of people had prior to ObamaCare.

Excellent post,  Thank you @Maj. Bill Martin