Author Topic: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix  (Read 42328 times)

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Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #400 on: March 28, 2017, 09:38:02 pm »
Not really..... since "most" Americans did NOT want ObamaCare to be the "law of the land".

How do you know that most Americans didn't want ObamaCare to be the law of the land?  Public opinion polls


Quote
So much for bowing to the will of the people.

I didn't say "the will of the people".  I said their votes.  We don't run the country by results of public opinion polls, or by something as ephemeral and difficult to quantify as "the will of the people."  We're a representative republic, and we determine the direction of the country through elections.  And the fact is that the Dems won the Presidency, the House, and the Senate.   And when we wanted to change course, we had to convince people to vote for someone different.  And if the people running for office don't care if they are hated, they probably aren't going to last.

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #401 on: March 28, 2017, 09:38:58 pm »
I like Ben Shapiro's version:  "You have to be highly educated to be that stupid."


Or  George Orwell.  “There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them.”
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #402 on: March 28, 2017, 09:39:48 pm »
As long as one side acquiesces, there will be peace. When the other side finally says enough, the fur will fly. Its a matter of time. That being said, I'm right there with you.


If only the congress were as well.   
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #403 on: March 28, 2017, 09:42:00 pm »
Excellent point.  High deductible policies to protect against catastrophic injuries, and HSA to pay for other stuff are the clear path to a more rational system.  They also have the virtue of fewer claims being processed, which means less money wasted in administrative costs.


But to paraphrase professor Glenn Reynolds,  "this leaves Washington insufficient opportunities for graft."   


But yes,  this is a more rational approach than letting the government run it as well as they do the VA.   
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #404 on: March 28, 2017, 09:43:12 pm »
Erica Werner‏
@ericawerner

Mcconnell making clear Obamacare repeal efforts dead. "We have the existing law in place and we'll just have to see how that works out."


Steve Deace‏Verified account @SteveDeaceShow  49m49 minutes ago

I hate these people.
#KillTheGOP


Me too.
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #405 on: March 28, 2017, 09:45:34 pm »

All it means to me is that Republicans are too timid to advance any kind of agenda even when they're in control.


I used to think it was timidity.   Now I think they are playing the role of the Washington Generals to the Democrat's  Harlem Globetrotters.   
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Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #406 on: March 28, 2017, 09:48:32 pm »

I used to think it was timidity.   Now I think they are playing the role of the Washington Generals to the Democrat's  Harlem Globetrotters.

 888high58888  Right there with you on that!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #407 on: March 28, 2017, 09:57:08 pm »
Couldn't agree more. So, who exactly has to bend their beliefs to unify? I'm assuming it won't be you.

Moderates and conservatives both have to bend.   And the AHCA represented just such a compromise.  There was PLENTY in the AHCA for conservatives.   But in the end,  the Freedom Caucus refused to respect party leadership,  and the game was lost. 

It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #408 on: March 28, 2017, 09:58:18 pm »

I used to think it was timidity.   Now I think they are playing the role of the Washington Generals to the Democrat's  Harlem Globetrotters.

It has nothing to do with timidity.  It has to do with unity.  The Dems are unified, we are not.   
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #409 on: March 28, 2017, 10:00:12 pm »
It has nothing to do with timidity.  It has to do with unity.  The Dems are unified, we are not.   

And, the dems are wrong, so what's your point?

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #410 on: March 28, 2017, 10:02:22 pm »
I never said to ignore that.  I'm actually saying we need to be aware of that, and plan strategy accordingly.   


The strategy which I believe we should accordingly plan is the decapitation of that beast,  not to work out some kind of an "eat me last"  compromise.   


I know that you've previously advocated governmental bodies to compel some type of level playing fieldfairness with the media, and I've strongly disagreed with you on that.



It appears to be the only part of what you think I said that you remember.  I suggested a range of things,  one of which was an elected board of governors to oversee hiring in the media.   You interpreted this as "government control"  which I disagree that it is.   


I argued that the government already controls the media,  meaning the Washington Establishment system keeps a government friendly media in power. 




But regardless of who is right on that issue, the fact is that there is zero chance of getting anything like that passed anyway in time for these particular bits of legislation.  So to that extent, it is a red herring.  The press landscape is what it is, at least for now.



And my point is that rather than ignoring "the man behind that curtain" , we ought to be directing live fire at the controllers of the voice of OZ. 




Trump had the right idea.  Destroy the existing prestitutes and expose them as frauds at every opportunity.   


My point is simply that we need to be aware of what the political landscape is, so we can maximize our chances of actually getting to the end result we are trying to reach.


Doing what we say we will do will pay us dividends in the long run.   Maybe not in the next election,  but certainly at some point.   
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
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Offline INVAR

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Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #411 on: March 28, 2017, 10:04:40 pm »
And, the dems are wrong, so what's your point?
His point is for us to be unified with the Democrats and their agenda.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #412 on: March 28, 2017, 10:09:50 pm »
His point is for us to be unified with the Democrats and their agenda.

Yeah, that's been the point (or slight variations thereof) the boy's been making since he first signed up.  "Unify around me and all will be Jake, otherwise you all are a bunch of knuckle-draggers."   *****rollingeyes*****
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #413 on: March 28, 2017, 10:17:36 pm »
And by rejecting it, you're ensuring that everything you say you're against with Obamacare, will persist.


I hear it will collapse under it's own weight and has nearly done so already.  Why would it persist but for the lack of Gonads among the Republicans who refuse to rid us of it's remnants?   

The enforcement mechanism has already been destroyed by Trump.   The rest of this is merely a fight over principle.   



Politics just isn't as easy as you seem to think it is.

I've had some experience at politics.   My methods worked pretty well I think.   Certainly the enemy lost.  BADLY.   Worst loss in my state ever. 


I've got a letter from the FEC in my desk drawer telling me I was a bad little boy.   :)   



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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #415 on: March 28, 2017, 10:43:49 pm »
Traitor?   He was simply doing his job as a judge.


I absolutely disagree.   There is no support in the law for Obamacare.  Roberts had to do a sleigh of hand just to make up a ridiculous argument to act as a fig leaf for his betrayal. 

He called it a "tax"  when in fact,  congress explicitly said it was not a tax,  because if it were a tax,  it would have had to originate in the House,  per constitutional requirements.   

No,  Robert's was not doing his job as a Judge.   He was acting as an Obama boot lick for some reason.   



  Are you demanding that judges act as political animals? 



When one side is absolutely correct,  and when going along with the correct side is indistinguishable from acting as a "political animal"  then I say go for it.   

The Liberal judges vote en bloc,  so I don't see "political animal"  as being very different from what the Supreme Court already is.   



The "Fascist garbage" you refer to was the individual mandate.
 

No,  it's the whole thing and all of it's pieces.   As a matter of principle,  the government has no business being involved in healthcare (beyond regulating safety and criminal behavior)  at all. 



That mandate (as well as the employer mandate)  would have been eliminated by the AHCA.   The survival of that "fascist garbage" is the direct result of the obstruction of the Freedom Caucus.   So give Justice Roberts a break.


No,  it's the direct consequence of that lying snake bastard ignoring actual law,  and allowing that abomination to survive a court challenge.  It's the direct consequence of the New York Liberal Democrat controlled propaganda system pushing into power an affirmative action imbecile.   

The New York Liberal Democrat propaganda system is where the consequences of this folly need to be addressed.   
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #416 on: March 28, 2017, 10:47:10 pm »
Republicans now hold all branches of government.  All we need to do to prevail is be unified.  The failure to fix the ACA is our own damn fault.   We can't handle the responsibilities of governance;  we're happier being aggrieved back-benchers.


We were unified in the preceding years when our Republican majorities voted to repeal the piece of sh*t.   

The Position of the Freedom Caucus did not change from last year to this.   The fault for a lack of unification lies at the feet of those moderates who did change their position on Obamacare being repealed.


Blame them.   Don't blame the people who haven't moved.   
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Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #417 on: March 28, 2017, 10:58:08 pm »

I absolutely disagree.   There is no support in the law for Obamacare.  Roberts had to do a sleigh of hand just to make up a ridiculous argument to act as a fig leaf for his betrayal. 

He called it a "tax"  when in fact,  congress explicitly said it was not a tax,  because if it were a tax,  it would have had to originate in the House,  per constitutional requirements.   

No,  Robert's was not doing his job as a Judge.   He was acting as an Obama boot lick for some reason.   


No,  it's the whole thing and all of it's pieces.   As a matter of principle,  the government has no business being involved in healthcare (beyond regulating safety and criminal behavior)  at all. 


Perfectly and excellently stated.

But it will be ridiculed, ignored, discounted and attacked by our resident Leftist and self-identifying Conservatives who somehow see compromising with tyranny to be some kind of noble virtue.
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #418 on: March 28, 2017, 10:58:55 pm »
@EC

That's a great question that kind of cuts to the core of the whole thing.

The side that should bend the most is the side that has the most to lose if no deal is struck - the side least willing to live with the status quo.  That's a basic rule of bargaining.


I think the side which is most in the wrong should yield.    That's a basic rule of morality. 


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Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #419 on: March 28, 2017, 11:00:43 pm »
Yeah, that's been the point (or slight variations thereof) the boy's been making since he first signed up.  "Unify around me and all will be Jake, otherwise you all are a bunch of knuckle-draggers."   *****rollingeyes*****

Yes, I find it laughable when his commentary towards Conservatives who slam everything Leftist is greeted with epithets of one kind and/or another during his defense of Communism and Statism.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #420 on: March 28, 2017, 11:01:12 pm »
It has nothing to do with timidity.  It has to do with unity.  The Dems are unified, we are not.   


Half our side *IS*  unified...  with the Democrats and the Washington Establishment. 
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Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #421 on: March 28, 2017, 11:30:15 pm »
This is getting weighed down with unnecessary complexity.  So allow me to simplify. The ONLY way anything on the right gets done is if GOP moderates, libertarians and conservatives compromise with one another. If one or all of these groups refuse to do so, we are collectively screwed.

If they don't find a way to cooperate...on the things most of us want...you know what happens?  Absolutely nothing.

Some here are OK with glorious failure...or "nothing", as long as they can mentally march their egos into righteous heaven like Martyrs from Quo Vadis proclaiming what great holy soldiers they are...armored in their own pride and wielding the sword of their own moral prejudice. Its a very grand form of political suicide that seems to send a saintly thrill down the legs of moral narcissists throughout the party.

The rest of us would like to actually pass real legislation that turns this nation back towards the right...to the greatest extent possible. So you can imagine how frustrated we are to be thwarted by the inflated egos who prefer the purity of glorious suicide to an incremental but consistent turn to the Right.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 11:34:06 pm by Mesaclone »
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #422 on: March 28, 2017, 11:33:42 pm »
No bill is better than a bad bill.  Start with that and build, it'll be golden.  No more crap sandwiches.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #423 on: March 28, 2017, 11:36:15 pm »
This is getting weighed down with unnecessary complexity.  So allow me to simplify. The ONLY way anything on the right gets done is if GOP moderates, libertarians and conservatives compromise with one another. If one or all of these groups refuse to do so, we are collectively screwed.

If they don't find a way to cooperate...on the things most of us want...you know what happens?  Absolutely nothing.

Some here are OK with glorious failure...or "nothing", as long as they can mentally march their egos into righteous heaven like Martyrs from Quo Vadis proclaiming what great holy soldiers they are...armored in their own pride and wielding the sword of their own moral prejudice. Its a very grand form of political suicide that seems to send a saintly thrill down the legs of moral narcissists throughout the party.

The rest of us would like to actually pass real legislation that turns this nation back towards the right...to the greatest extent possible. So you can imagine how frustrated we are to be thwarted by the inflated egos who prefer the purity of glorious suicide to an incremental but consistent turn to the Right.

That's because we don't believe in unicorns or "an incremental but consistent turn to the Right."

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #424 on: March 28, 2017, 11:44:16 pm »
That's because we don't believe in unicorns or "an incremental but consistent turn to the Right."

No, indeed, you apparently believe in actually achieving...nothing.
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