Author Topic: NYT....In Major Defeat for Trump, Push to Repeal Health Law Fails  (Read 7077 times)

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Offline mystery-ak

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By ROBERT PEAR, GLENN THRUSH and THOMAS KAPLAN
March 24, 2017

WASHINGTON — House Republican leaders, facing a revolt among conservatives and moderates in their ranks, pulled legislation to repeal the Affordable Care Act from consideration on the House floor Friday afternoon in a significant defeat for President Trump on the first legislative showdown of his presidency.

House Speaker Paul D. Ryan conceded, “We’re going to be living with Obamacare for the foreseeable future.”

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https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/03/24/us/politics/health-care-affordable-care-act.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&referer=http://m.facebook.com
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Offline bigheadfred

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Re: NYT....In Major Defeat for Trump, Push to Repeal Health Law Fails
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2017, 12:43:20 am »
Shocked. Not.
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Offline Rivergirl

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Re: NYT....In Major Defeat for Trump, Push to Repeal Health Law Fails
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2017, 12:55:38 am »
He never said he would repeal and replace health care, it was just something he read in the newspapers.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: NYT....In Major Defeat for Trump, Push to Repeal Health Law Fails
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2017, 02:53:20 am »
The headline is dishonest. It wasn't a push to repeal Obamacare, it was a bill to tinker with it.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline bilo

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Re: NYT....In Major Defeat for Trump, Push to Repeal Health Law Fails
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2017, 03:24:48 am »
The headline is dishonest. It wasn't a push to repeal Obamacare, it was a bill to tinker with it.

And that was the problem!

After 7 years of hearing "give us the power and we will repeal this day one" they didn't do it. They didn't have a plan that they could agree on and Ryan presented a bill that no one was allowed to amend except him. The Rats have to be excited they will gain seats in 2018 and maybe the POTUS in 2020.

I can't believe the Pubs threw away this once in a lifetime opportunity.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: NYT....In Major Defeat for Trump, Push to Repeal Health Law Fails
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2017, 04:00:57 am »
And that was the problem!

After 7 years of hearing "give us the power and we will repeal this day one" they didn't do it. They didn't have a plan that they could agree on and Ryan presented a bill that no one was allowed to amend except him. The Rats have to be excited they will gain seats in 2018 and maybe the POTUS in 2020.

I can't believe the Pubs threw away this once in a lifetime opportunity.
The Republican Party has been so adept at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory over the past decade, that I am well along to believing it is just a charade.

It has been the same limp attempts, lame excuses, and absence of Conservatism when it can count, that is almost perfection in its lack of efficacy for Conservative causes. No matter what resources at their disposal, there is always another excuse.

How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Bigun

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Re: NYT....In Major Defeat for Trump, Push to Repeal Health Law Fails
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2017, 04:11:42 am »
The headline is dishonest. It wasn't a push to repeal Obamacare, it was a bill to tinker with it.

The headline is a flat out lie!  Revise and rename - as this bill was - is a FAR cry from Repeal and replace!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Bigun

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Re: NYT....In Major Defeat for Trump, Push to Repeal Health Law Fails
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2017, 04:14:02 am »
The Republican Party has been so adept at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory over the past decade, that I am well along to believing it is just a charade.

It has been the same limp attempts, lame excuses, and absence of Conservatism when it can count, that is almost perfection in its lack of efficacy for Conservative causes. No matter what resources at their disposal, there is always another excuse.

ALL of the swamp critter love their swamp just as it is and no draining will be allowed!  The letters behind their names are purely incidental.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: NYT....In Major Defeat for Trump, Push to Repeal Health Law Fails
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2017, 04:15:13 am »
Best thing that could be done now is to quickly get a vote in the House on a straight-up repeal -- have the vote regardless of whether or not there are enough votes for it to pass.  And regardless of what would happen to the bill in the Senate.

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Re: NYT....In Major Defeat for Trump, Push to Repeal Health Law Fails
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2017, 04:20:51 am »
Best thing that could be done now is to quickly get a vote in the House on a straight-up repeal -- have the vote regardless of whether or not there are enough votes for it to pass.  And regardless of what would happen to the bill in the Senate.

THAT is exactly what should have been done in the first place IMHO! That is what they promised to do and they should have done exactly that!  At the very least it would have put the nay Sayers of both parties and both houses directly in the cross hairs of the 2016 election! Which, BTW, is EXACTLY why they won't do that!
« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 04:22:47 am by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: NYT....In Major Defeat for Trump, Push to Repeal Health Law Fails
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2017, 04:26:27 am »
THAT is exactly what should have been done in the first place IMHO! That is what they promised to do and they should have done exactly that!  At the very least it would have put the nay Sayers of both parties and both houses directly in the cross hairs of the 2016 election!

I don't think there is a hope in hell that a straight repeal with no replacement would have actually passed both the House and Senate.  But I think that reality needs to be demonstrated if there is going to be much hope of getting anything passed.

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Re: NYT....In Major Defeat for Trump, Push to Repeal Health Law Fails
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2017, 04:32:54 am »
I don't think there is a hope in hell that a straight repeal with no replacement would have actually passed both the House and Senate.  But I think that reality needs to be demonstrated if there is going to be much hope of getting anything passed.

It has passed the house something like thirty times over the last 7 years and there are a hell of a lot of democrat senators in states handily won by Trump in the last election who want to keep their phony baloney jobs!

And 60 votes be damned if necessary!  we are only talking about the long term survival of our current form of government here after all!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: NYT....In Major Defeat for Trump, Push to Repeal Health Law Fails
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2017, 04:34:06 am »
I don't think there is a hope in hell that a straight repeal with no replacement would have actually passed both the House and Senate.  But I think that reality needs to be demonstrated if there is going to be much hope of getting anything passed.
Considering the repeal of Obamacare has been a cornerstone of GOP campaigns, I;d just like to see who the liars are. What about the last bill they passed, knowing full well it would never be signed?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Bigun

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Re: NYT....In Major Defeat for Trump, Push to Repeal Health Law Fails
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2017, 04:42:59 am »
Considering the repeal of Obamacare has been a cornerstone of GOP campaigns, I;d just like to see who the liars are. What about the last bill they passed, knowing full well it would never be signed?

Damned right! Get their sorry A$$ES on the record! Unmask them once and for all!

"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: NYT....In Major Defeat for Trump, Push to Repeal Health Law Fails
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2017, 04:45:38 am »
Considering the repeal of Obamacare has been a cornerstone of GOP campaigns, I;d just like to see who the liars are.

There really aren't any liars.  The moderates who oppose repeal without keeping some parts of Obamacare via replacement have been upfront about that since before the election.  They'd vote for the repeal bill, but generally while also saying that they wanted to see some aspects of it kept.  And it was an open secret that Republicans in Congress before the election could not get agreement on a replacement bill.

The supposed "unity" on just repealing ObamaCare and letting the chips fall where they may never existed.  This debacle was just confirmation of what has generally been known by anyone looking at facts rather than just seeing what they want to see.  Here is an article from June 2016.

GOP framework for Obamacare replacement is short on details

Seven months before President Barack Obama leaves the White House, congressional Republicans have little more than a white paper to show voters what they would do if given the chance to repeal the health care law that bears his name.

Speaker Paul Ryan on Wednesday will lay out the House’s plan to repeal and replace Obamacare in a paper designed to show voters the GOP isn’t just a party of no.

But the paper — which paints a conservative health policy agenda in broad strokes but doesn’t get into details like dollar amounts, who would be covered or how much financial help they might get — underscores the political and policy problems facing Republicans as they seek to unite around a plan to unravel a social safety net program that is already used by 20 million people.

Conservative factions have blasted plans deemed to provide too much coverage — such as Scott Walker’s prescription when he was running for president — as “Obamacare Lite.” At the other end of the spectrum, moderate Republicans have criticized plans that offer too little coverage as unsympathetic to people with expensive pre-existing illnesses.
“If you live in the Republican conference … I don’t think Jesus could get everyone to agree on everything,” said Rep. Phil Roe (R-Tenn.), a physician who has attended all of the task force meetings on the health plan.


http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/obamacare-house-republicans-224640

The only truly shocking thing is that so many people are shocked that they can't reach an agreement.  That's been an open secret for a very long time, covered up by a lot of self-delusion that there existed this great consensus to just eliminate ObamaCare without doing anything else.

I'd prefer that result myself, but it's not going to happen.  And if people think the midterms are going to be the chance to get a majority of conservatives in both the House and Senate willing to vote for a straight repeal...good luck.  That ain't happening either.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 04:46:51 am by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: NYT....In Major Defeat for Trump, Push to Repeal Health Law Fails
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2017, 05:01:15 am »
Quote
There really aren't any liars.
*****rollingeyes*****
Normally, Bill, I would read your post in its entirety. Not tonight.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Re: NYT....In Major Defeat for Trump, Push to Repeal Health Law Fails
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2017, 05:54:07 am »
The headline is dishonest. It wasn't a push to repeal Obamacare, it was a bill to tinker with it.

As I mentioned on another thread, it seems all of the headlines are using that word.

My guess is it's to set up the narrative for the Dems.  We'll see if the talks shows this weekend are filled with "failed", "grandma/seniors", "cliff", "settled science" (oops, wrong subject) and "move on".
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Re: NYT....In Major Defeat for Trump, Push to Repeal Health Law Fails
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2017, 06:53:54 am »
Ryan wants to keep ObamaCare and he made it happen

Offline 240B

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Re: NYT....In Major Defeat for Trump, Push to Repeal Health Law Fails
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2017, 09:05:53 am »
Ryan wants to keep ObamaCare and he made it happen
There is no keeping ObamaCare. It is not sustainable. In six months or so, ObamaCare will die of its own weight.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 09:06:25 am by 240B »
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

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Re: NYT....In Major Defeat for Trump, Push to Repeal Health Law Fails
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2017, 09:09:17 am »
There is no keeping ObamaCare. It is not sustainable. In six months or so, ObamaCare will die of its own weight.

With Republicans Like Paul Ryan, Who Needs Democrats?

https://drhurd.com/2017/03/24/63464/
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: NYT....In Major Defeat for Trump, Push to Repeal Health Law Fails
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2017, 10:21:15 am »
There really aren't any liars.  The moderates who oppose repeal without keeping some parts of Obamacare via replacement have been upfront about that since before the election.  They'd vote for the repeal bill, but generally while also saying that they wanted to see some aspects of it kept.  And it was an open secret that Republicans in Congress before the election could not get agreement on a replacement bill.
But that wasn't what they have been telling the folks back home who have been clamoring for the repeal of this disaster. From the beginning, some 60% of Americans were in favor of repeal, and while that looks highly unlikely, those same people who were aghast at Roberts' failure to find a penalty for not purchasing a product to be unconstitutional are again aghast that those who voted for repeal when there was no chance of anything but a veto, now will not when there is a chance the bill will be signed into law.

It is no accident that this last election turnouts were execrable, barely enough to rid the political landscape of Hillary for a while. Now another layer of disillusionment has been added for the people who actually thought Mr Smith went to Washington on their behalf.

In the meantime, the 'right' people are laughing over drinks and God only knows what else at the plebeian rubes who put them in office, smugly shoulder to shoulder in slick suits at the 'right' cocktail parties, just living the dream at our children's childrens' expense, and buying votes with your wages.

Quote
The supposed "unity" on just repealing ObamaCare and letting the chips fall where they may never existed.  This debacle was just confirmation of what has generally been known by anyone looking at facts rather than just seeing what they want to see. 
Sure, it existed, it was a lie, but that doesn't mean there wasn't unity.

No, apparently there was no intent to actually repeal the thing, any more than America had a snowball's chance in Hell of seeing it thrown out at the SCOTUS. It is all a charade, typical cherry blossom Kabuki theater for the tourists, for the suckers back home.

That is the reason Ryan pulled the bill. If it had gone for a vote, someone would have voted for it, and they'd have had some awkward moments at townhall meetings back in their home district explaining that. There would have had to be some pretty serious staging to keep the questions from being asked that just might cost them their jobs.

This way they can hide behind the actions of the speaker.

Trump's willingness to keep parts of the bill enables this nonsense, too. If we had someone in there who would simply say "Send me a bill to repeal this monstrosity", they'd really be out on a limb.

Quote
Here is an article from June 2016.

GOP framework for Obamacare replacement is short on details

Seven months before President Barack Obama leaves the White House, congressional Republicans have little more than a white paper to show voters what they would do if given the chance to repeal the health care law that bears his name.

Speaker Paul Ryan on Wednesday will lay out the House’s plan to repeal and replace Obamacare in a paper designed to show voters the GOP isn’t just a party of no.

But the paper — which paints a conservative health policy agenda in broad strokes but doesn’t get into details like dollar amounts, who would be covered or how much financial help they might get — underscores the political and policy problems facing Republicans as they seek to unite around a plan to unravel a social safety net program that is already used by 20 million people.
Twenty million? Six percent? How many LOST their insurance because of this 'safety net', and how many more are stuck with some plan that leaves them paying multiples of their previous premiums and paying out of pocket for their health care, too?
You mean to tell me that six percent of the American people are what Congress is worried about?

Not likely, not even as a voting bloc.

Which tells me the scammers on The Hill are lining their pockets over this deal. There can be no other explanation for throwing out the 94% of the American people who got the shaft.
Quote
Conservative factions have blasted plans deemed to provide too much coverage — such as Scott Walker’s prescription when he was running for president — as “Obamacare Lite.” At the other end of the spectrum, moderate Republicans have criticized plans that offer too little coverage as unsympathetic to people with expensive pre-existing illnesses.
“If you live in the Republican conference … I don’t think Jesus could get everyone to agree on everything,” said Rep. Phil Roe (R-Tenn.), a physician who has attended all of the task force meetings on the health plan.[/i]

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/obamacare-house-republicans-224640
Trapped by the false narrative of having to replace something that has done far more damage than good, that was fundamentally unsound, economically and otherwise, conservatives Republicans on the Hill have found themselves bound by a Gordian knot of of this program/that program/whose arse to kiss to keep their job, when the actual solution is to cut the damned rope.
Quote
The only truly shocking thing is that so many people are shocked that they can't reach an agreement.  That's been an open secret for a very long time, covered up by a lot of self-delusion that there existed this great consensus to just eliminate ObamaCare without doing anything else.


The deal was simple. We sent them to Washington to get rid of Obamacare. We didn't want government run health insurance (it never was healthcare, just insurance) because even those of us who were buying our own insurance had a better deal in the private sector.

The basis on which the GOP obtained a majority in Congress was repeal.

They're politicians, they lied. What a shocker!

How damned long are we, the constituents, the voters going to allow those bastards to get away with that?

I have ever been skeptical of the efficacy of an Article 5 convention, but if and when it happens: Amendment "Every elected office holder in the Federal Government shall be subject to recall election upon petition by 10% of the voters in their home district or State, and be replaced upon the majority vote of those voters to remove them from office, with the exception of the offices of President and Vice President."

Quote
I'd prefer that result myself, but it's not going to happen.  And if people think the midterms are going to be the chance to get a majority of conservatives in both the House and Senate willing to vote for a straight repeal...good luck.  That ain't happening either.

No, it won't happen in the midterms. Unfortunately, these scalywags grease their home districts well enough that they'll likely be reelected, even after such an egregious breach of the public trust. If they aren't removed by a primary challenger, they will rely on the fear of depredations which would be imposed by a Democrat majority.
Both sides of the aisle use this fear of the other Party to maintain their jobs.

« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 10:30:13 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline LMAO

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Re: NYT....In Major Defeat for Trump, Push to Repeal Health Law Fails
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2017, 10:39:10 am »
There is no keeping ObamaCare. It is not sustainable. In six months or so, ObamaCare will die of its own weight.

@240B

In theory and by the law of economics it should.

But we have a Federal Reserve to prop garbage like this up.
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Offline 240B

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Re: NYT....In Major Defeat for Trump, Push to Repeal Health Law Fails
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2017, 11:11:26 am »
@240B

In theory and by the law of economics it should.

But we have a Federal Reserve to prop garbage like this up.
If the government starts covering health care, then we will have transitioned to single payer government controlled health care, which is exactly what Obama had in mind the whole time.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: NYT....In Major Defeat for Trump, Push to Repeal Health Law Fails
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2017, 11:13:45 am »
If the government starts covering health care, then we will have transitioned to single payer government controlled health care, which is exactly what Obama had in mind the whole time.
Apparently the Congress had that in mind, too--at least most of it.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline LMAO

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Re: NYT....In Major Defeat for Trump, Push to Repeal Health Law Fails
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2017, 11:13:52 am »
If the government starts covering health care, then we will have transitioned to single payer government controlled health care, which is exactly what Obama had in mind the whole time.

@240B

Exactly.

So be prepared for more sluggish economic growth
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

Barry Goldwater

http://www.usdebtclock.org

My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy