Author Topic: Trump Blames Democrats as Major Push to Repeal Health Law Fails (NYT)  (Read 2715 times)

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Offline LonestarDream

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Re: Trump Blames Democrats as Major Push to Repeal Health Law Fails (NYT)
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2017, 11:16:32 pm »
No it wont.  Trump will have the IRS not enforce the mandate.  And the insurance will be on their own, because congress does not have to fund the growing subsidies , ala the Rubio Rule.

No coverage will offered in the exchanges....

Just to point out -- due in part, though certainly not entirely, to those principled individuals, Obamacare is still Obamacare and now stands to be so for some time.

So, tell me: does that mean that the election really about getting nothing instead of something?  The thing they campaigned against, is the thing their actions have helped to perpetuate.  Do you want to call that "victory?"

Let's agree that the replacement bill was a bad one, probably because a) it was done too fast, and b) done all in one piece rather than piecemeal.  There are a lot of reasons for it being done that way, I suppose... but it sure didn't work.
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Offline r9etb

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Re: Trump Blames Democrats as Major Push to Repeal Health Law Fails (NYT)
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2017, 11:23:15 pm »
No it wont.  Trump will have the IRS not enforce the mandate.  And the insurance will be on their own, because congress does not have to fund the growing subsidies , ala the Rubio Rule.

No coverage will offered in the exchanges....

I'm not sure I understand your comment.

Offline LonestarDream

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Re: Trump Blames Democrats as Major Push to Repeal Health Law Fails (NYT)
« Reply #27 on: March 24, 2017, 11:32:34 pm »
I'm not sure I understand your comment.

Corbe has the accurate analysis.  Rubio put in legislation to cap funding for the 'moral hazard' and 'adverse selection' that is going on in Obama Care.  Trump will put in so many waivers that insurance companies will not have to follow all the mandated coverage options in OC.  It will be hollowed out from a funding , compliance and regulatory standpoint. 
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Online corbe

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Re: Trump Blames Democrats as Major Push to Repeal Health Law Fails (NYT)
« Reply #28 on: March 24, 2017, 11:41:07 pm »
Corbe has the accurate analysis.  Rubio put in legislation to cap funding for the 'moral hazard' and 'adverse selection' that is going on in Obama Care.  Trump will put in so many waivers that insurance companies will not have to follow all the mandated coverage options in OC.  It will be hollowed out from a funding , compliance and regulatory standpoint. 

   Good point @LonestarDream I was unaware of Rubio's pending legislation.  Trump has already instructed the IRS to forgo any fees/penalties related to OC, that alone is the beginning of the end, IMHO
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Trump Blames Democrats as Major Push to Repeal Health Law Fails (NYT)
« Reply #29 on: March 24, 2017, 11:47:39 pm »
   I like this strategy, when in doubt blame the democrats, .../

I heard the President do more than blame the democrats.  I heard him open the door to working with them in the next round of negotiations -- because repealing and replacing Obamacare just won't happen with Republicans alone.

Offline NavyCanDo

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Re: Trump Blames Democrats as Major Push to Repeal Health Law Fails (NYT)
« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2017, 11:49:30 pm »
Trump is right but the democrats that killed it all have Rs behind their names!

There should have been nothing too kill. Everyone, and that includes the white house was in too big a hurry. The first hundred days chock full of small victories like the pipe line, and EPA downsizing would have been just fine. There was plenty of time to put together a sensible replacement bill that both the far right and the moderates could find common ground. There was enough evidence right here on TBR that conservatives were split on the bill. And explain to the public in detail what it would mean to them.Get them on your side. Then and only then build a strategy for passing it.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2017, 11:50:35 pm by NavyCanDo »
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Online corbe

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Re: Trump Blames Democrats as Major Push to Repeal Health Law Fails (NYT)
« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2017, 11:52:15 pm »
I heard the President do more than blame the democrats.  I heard him open the door to working with them in the next round of negotiations -- because repealing and replacing Obamacare just won't happen with Republicans alone.

   I read that @Right_in_Virginia and that scares the bejebees out of me, but hey, what can I do except sit here at my keyboard and whine and moan?
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Trump Blames Democrats as Major Push to Repeal Health Law Fails (NYT)
« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2017, 11:58:22 pm »
   I read that @Right_in_Virginia and that scares the bejebees out of me, but hey, what can I do except sit here at my keyboard and whine and moan?

It is uncharted territory for sure @corbe   I'm not sure what alliances will form going forward .... but it sure is interesting to watch.

Offline r9etb

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Re: Trump Blames Democrats as Major Push to Repeal Health Law Fails (NYT)
« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2017, 11:58:31 pm »
There should have been nothing too kill. Everyone, and that includes the white house was in too big a hurry. The first hundred days chock full of small victories like the pipe line, and EPA downsizing would have been just fine.

You're right.  But if the strategy was to get an early big win as crucial to cementing Trump's legitimacy, then those won't do.

Quote
There was plenty of time to put together a sensible replacement bill that both the far right and the moderates could find common ground. There was enough evidence right here on TBR that conservatives were split on the bill. And explain to the public in detail what it would mean to them.Get them on your side. Then and only then build a strategy for passing it.

The part about TBR is an excellent observation -- I hadn't really thought about it in that way.

Online corbe

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Re: Trump Blames Democrats as Major Push to Repeal Health Law Fails (NYT)
« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2017, 02:40:15 am »

Quote
  Chuck Schumer
✔  ‎@SenSchumer 

Ultimately the #Trumpcare bill failed because of two traits that have plagued the Trump presidency: incompetence & broken promises.

4:18 PM - 24 Mar 2017
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Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Trump Blames Democrats as Major Push to Repeal Health Law Fails (NYT)
« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2017, 05:06:37 am »
Republican House Republican Senate Republican President.

Pretty clear cut who is at fault continuing the status quo.

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Re: Trump Blames Democrats as Major Push to Repeal Health Law Fails (NYT)
« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2017, 07:25:33 am »
If conservatives and moderates were against it, then those who supported it were.... :shrug:

Offline LMAO

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Re: Trump Blames Democrats as Major Push to Repeal Health Law Fails (NYT)
« Reply #37 on: March 25, 2017, 12:40:48 pm »
    NO! @Jazzhead obamacare will die on it's own (sooner rather than later) and the House/Trump will be forced to negotiate a better deal with the Conservatives in both Chambers, that's what we elected them to do.

@corbe

Theoretically, yes it will.

Provided the federal government doesn't prop it up. The federal government has the ability to borrow and the Federal Reserve can print all the money we need
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Offline Victoria33

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Re: Trump Blames Democrats as Major Push to Repeal Health Law Fails (NYT)
« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2017, 01:19:22 pm »
It's just Trump playing his usual game: "I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna..... it's somebody else's fault."
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You are correct.  Remember (and I saw him/heard him say this) he said he had never asked God for forgiveness because he had "never done anything to ask forgiveness for."  If one thinks one is perfect in God's eyes, then one is perfect in this world so anything that goes wrong has to/must be, someone else's fault.  I don't know about you, but I have never met anyone who thought he/she was totally perfect, never made a mistake.  This strange man is president.

Offline Victoria33

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Re: Trump Blames Democrats as Major Push to Repeal Health Law Fails (NYT)
« Reply #39 on: March 25, 2017, 01:39:22 pm »
Right, Trump plays good cop and blames the Democrats, while Bannon played both ends to get Ryan.
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@mystery-ak 

Remember, Trump will try to crush anyone who at any time said anything against him and he won't stop until he does it.  Ryan did not support Trump during the campaign, and Trump will crush him and use Bannon to help him do it.

We don't have a functioning government now - we have one man, Trump, who will keep chaos going every day for four years - it has been chaos every day since he took office.  That is the way he has lived his whole life and it isn't going to change.  Eventually, as the chaos keeps going, his people will finally get it and not be able to keep supporting him.  I now think he won't be elected for another term.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Trump Blames Democrats as Major Push to Repeal Health Law Fails (NYT)
« Reply #40 on: March 25, 2017, 01:41:47 pm »
@corbe

Theoretically, yes it will.

Provided the federal government doesn't prop it up. The federal government has the ability to borrow and the Federal Reserve can print all the money we need
That is true as long as some are willing to buy this debt.  It is not everlasting, and the piper must be paid at some point.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Trump Blames Democrats as Major Push to Repeal Health Law Fails (NYT)
« Reply #41 on: March 25, 2017, 01:42:21 pm »
If conservatives and moderates were against it, then those who supported it were.... :shrug:
the libs were 100% against it as well.  Should be nobody left to vote.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 01:53:37 pm by IsailedawayfromFR »
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Trump Blames Democrats as Major Push to Repeal Health Law Fails (NYT)
« Reply #42 on: March 25, 2017, 01:57:45 pm »
   I like this strategy, when in doubt blame the democrats, you can't go wrong there and he doesn't need to be peeing on the Freedom Caucus, they're already mad.

Agreed.  It sounded great hearing it on the radio.  How refreshing to hear someone posing as a Republican spin it that way.

Trump's point is that Obamacare is collapsing, Republicans were trying to save it, and that Democrats did nothing to help.  I am not at all keen on saving Obamacare, but the spin was spot on.

In the end, we may get a better bill, and get rid of Paul Ryan at the same time.  If there was ever need for a groundswell of support for Alan West as Speaker, it is now.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Trump Blames Democrats as Major Push to Repeal Health Law Fails (NYT)
« Reply #43 on: March 26, 2017, 01:54:30 pm »
Republican House Republican Senate Republican President.

Pretty clear cut who is at fault continuing the status quo.

The Freedom Caucus cost conservatives their best shot at addressing the Medicaid expansion through block grants to the states.   That was the real stealth conservative reform at the heat of the AHCA -  the first attempt ever to change a big federal entitlement program from a defined benefit to a defined contribution model. 

The Medicaid expansion will remain,  and the ObamaCare subsidies will remain.  Congrats,  Freedom Caucus, you did good.   

As for the individual and employer mandates,  it is not acceptable for Trump merely to "not enforce" these taxes.    I can't counsel my client to dismantle its reporting apparatus on that basis.  Employers cannot simply ignore the law.   The mandates must be repealed.

I think they can,  although Trump's message should be at this point to move on to general tax reform.   But as part of tax reform,  I'd think it might be possible to simply repeal the mandates in exchange for allowing insurance companies to punish free riders with higher rates,  while keeping the rest of the ACA intact.   

That will have some interesting consequences.   First and foremost,  small to medium-sized employers will be freed of the regulatory and reporting burdens of the mandate,  and can start hiring again.    The subsidies will remain in place for comprehensive individual policies that cover the range of "essential benefits" required by the ACA,  but the end of the individual mandate should allow insurers to market more stripped down products that can be purchased by consumers without penalty.   Can a robust free market develop for such products?     
« Last Edit: March 26, 2017, 01:58:15 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline r9etb

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Re: Trump Blames Democrats as Major Push to Repeal Health Law Fails (NYT)
« Reply #44 on: March 26, 2017, 02:08:14 pm »
The Freedom Caucus cost conservatives their best shot at addressing the Medicaid expansion through block grants to the states.   That was the real stealth conservative reform at the heat of the AHCA -  the first attempt ever to change a big federal entitlement program from a defined benefit to a defined contribution model. 

Not entirely true.  The Freedom Caucus were fewer than 30 swing votes, necessary for passage because a lot of other Republicans weren't going to vote for the bill, either.  The bill itself was flawed for a lot of reasons, and its rollout was very poorly done. 

Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: Trump Blames Democrats as Major Push to Repeal Health Law Fails (NYT)
« Reply #45 on: March 26, 2017, 02:15:35 pm »
Not entirely true.  The Freedom Caucus were fewer than 30 swing votes, necessary for passage because a lot of other Republicans weren't going to vote for the bill, either.  The bill itself was flawed for a lot of reasons, and its rollout was very poorly done.

Louie Gohmert claims that there were going to be more no votes from non caucus members than from caucus members.

Meanwhile Trump inexplicably attacks moderates like Paul Ryan and and his list of conservative targets is growing.


Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Trump Blames Democrats as Major Push to Repeal Health Law Fails (NYT)
« Reply #46 on: March 26, 2017, 02:15:56 pm »

We don't have a functioning government now - we have one man, Trump, who will keep chaos going every day for four years - it has been chaos every day since he took office.  That is the way he has lived his whole life and it isn't going to change.  Eventually, as the chaos keeps going, his people will finally get it and not be able to keep supporting him.  I now think he won't be elected for another term.

Trump is not the reason for a non-functioning government.   The GOP controls Congress; it can pass anything it can get its caucus to agree on,  but conservatives won't support party leadership.    Trump now needs to find a different coalition.   Remember, he's not especially ideological - he wants results.     
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Trump Blames Democrats as Major Push to Repeal Health Law Fails (NYT)
« Reply #47 on: March 26, 2017, 02:22:13 pm »
Trump is not the reason for a non-functioning government.   The GOP controls Congress; it can pass anything it can get its caucus to agree on,  but conservatives won't support party leadership.    Trump now needs to find a different coalition.   Remember, he's not especially ideological - he wants results.   

Agree @Jazzhead

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Re: Trump Blames Democrats as Major Push to Repeal Health Law Fails (NYT)
« Reply #48 on: March 26, 2017, 02:36:26 pm »
Rience Priebus and Paul Ryan are a POX on Trump's presidency but HE cannot see that! 

I've seen the movie before under G.W. Bush when Karl Rove and Karen Hughes took him down the primrose path to defeat!
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"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Trump Blames Democrats as Major Push to Repeal Health Law Fails (NYT)
« Reply #49 on: March 26, 2017, 08:55:43 pm »
Rience Priebus and Paul Ryan are a POX on Trump's presidency but HE cannot see that! 

The irony here is that Cruz was the one falsely labeled as an Establishment hack, while Trump has been in bed with Priebus and McConnell the entire time.
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