Author Topic: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right  (Read 5515 times)

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Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #75 on: March 20, 2017, 05:24:06 PM »
Do you honestly believe we could provide more service than we do today for less cost, by passing that function through the federal government?

Really?

I've asked him similar questions, and he really thinks government can create and enforce "fairness."  Not a stretch to think the government can do anything the private sector can do, but faster, cheaper and more fair.  He keeps deflecting people by calling things "mythology," and I'd like to know exactly what he's calling mythology.
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #76 on: March 20, 2017, 06:06:23 PM »
Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right


I thought we already had the discussion about slavery,  and didn't slavery lose? 


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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #77 on: March 20, 2017, 06:09:13 PM »

I thought we already had the discussion about slavery,  and didn't slavery lose?

I thought so too, but I guess people like Cuban want to refight it.
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Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #78 on: March 20, 2017, 06:54:01 PM »
One cannot save for a catastrophic medical event.
Yes, they can.

If they can't, the doctors are overcharging anyway and deserve to get ripped off.
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Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #79 on: March 20, 2017, 07:27:05 PM »
Yes, they can.

If they can't, the doctors are overcharging anyway and deserve to get ripped off.

Indeed they can.  I had two hip replacements, and the fully inflated cost (not what the insurance paid) was about $150K per.  When you consider my 401K is several times what I would have ended up paying, it's not unrealistic to have had that money saved up over a life time.

And I'm not rich, just middle class, never made $100K per year in my life.
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Offline driftdiver

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Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #80 on: March 20, 2017, 07:37:11 PM »
Indeed they can.  I had two hip replacements, and the fully inflated cost (not what the insurance paid) was about $150K per.  When you consider my 401K is several times what I would have ended up paying, it's not unrealistic to have had that money saved up over a life time.

And I'm not rich, just middle class, never made $100K per year in my life.

Yes what we need are wage controls for doctors.  By golly just because they went to school for 12 years after high-school they think they can charge whatever.

Never mind a lot of that was for the hospital.
And probably at least 25% went to pay their malpractice insurance because the common worker likes to sue.
Or the massive regulations they have to contend with.
Sheeeeee those greedy good for nothings are to blame.

It's certainly not the insurance companies.  Or federal govt which reimburses them for less than cost so they have to make it up off paying customers.

Nope it's those greedy doctors who allowed you to walk again.
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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #81 on: March 20, 2017, 07:42:56 PM »
Indeed they can.  I had two hip replacements, and the fully inflated cost (not what the insurance paid) was about $150K per.  When you consider my 401K is several times what I would have ended up paying, it's not unrealistic to have had that money saved up over a life time.

And I'm not rich, just middle class, never made $100K per year in my life.

300k total? Yikes.
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #82 on: March 20, 2017, 07:48:10 PM »
Quote
That tax burden would be offset by a reduction in your health insurance premiums.

That lie...first told by Obama has already been dispelled.
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Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #83 on: March 20, 2017, 08:19:58 PM »
300k total? Yikes.

I think that was the highly inflated first total, I imagine the insurance settled it for less, which brings up an interesting question.  If I had to buy the hardware and labor in cash, could I have gotten the better insurance adjusted price, or would I be on the tab for the full 300K?  I had really good insurance, I paid 2K per.

Mrs Liberty did a shoulder a couple years later, another couple K..This will kill you:  That summer one of our kitties got an intestinal blockage, and cost us more than all three of our joint replacements put together.  I shit you not.
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Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #84 on: March 20, 2017, 08:51:25 PM »
Yes what we need are wage controls for doctors.  By golly just because they went to school for 12 years after high-school they think they can charge whatever.
That university that requires 12 years to get a working degree certainly thinks it can charge whatever. The only thing inflating faster than health costs are college tuitions.

Perhaps when we stop treating certain classes of society as sacred, they'll stop holding us hostage.
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Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #85 on: March 20, 2017, 09:02:23 PM »
That university that requires 12 years to get a working degree certainly thinks it can charge whatever. The only thing inflating faster than health costs are college tuitions.

Perhaps when we stop treating certain classes of society as sacred, they'll stop holding us hostage.

Prices are inflating faster than ever, meanwhile doctors are leaving their practices in record numbers. My own doctor is a case in point - he left his practice and became a hospitalist. Trying to find a doctor who'll take new patients is becoming more and more difficult.

That money is going somewhere, but it ain't going to doctors.

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #86 on: March 20, 2017, 09:09:46 PM »
That university that requires 12 years to get a working degree certainly thinks it can charge whatever. The only thing inflating faster than health costs are college tuitions.

Perhaps when we stop treating certain classes of society as sacred, they'll stop holding us hostage.


Universities need to be "socialized."   They believe in  "sharing the wealth",  except perhaps when it comes to their own.   


They need to be *FORCED*  to share their wealth,  which in fact only stems from one source;  Credentialism.   

Knowledge nowadays is free to anyone who wants it.  What people cannot get is the imprimatur from a certifying agency without paying through the nose to get  it. 


We need to destroy these bastards that control the credentials so that anyone who wants one can have a college degree.   There is no reason on earth why it should cost $50,000-$100,000 per year to go to college.   


Texas has the right idea with it's $10,000 scholarship program.   The college monopoly needs to be defunded and broken,  and thereafter we would see a lot less harmful indoctrination of people. 


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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #87 on: March 20, 2017, 09:13:09 PM »
Prices are inflating faster than ever, meanwhile doctors are leaving their practices in record numbers. My own doctor is a case in point - he left his practice and became a hospitalist. Trying to find a doctor who'll take new patients is becoming more and more difficult.

That money is going somewhere, but it ain't going to doctors.


The legal authority of "Doctor"   is indirectly a government controlled monopoly,  and directly a University controlled monopoly.   


To get into the guild,  you have to pay through the nose to get the credentials from a University.   The government backs the Universities play on this. 




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Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #88 on: March 20, 2017, 09:15:33 PM »
He keeps deflecting people by calling things "mythology," and I'd like to know exactly what he's calling mythology.

The Bible, Biblical Christianity and Constitutional Conservatism are what he calls mythology based on his past replies of invective to those issues.
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Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #89 on: March 20, 2017, 09:19:34 PM »
Guess Cuban the dumbass doesn't realize what precedent this would set by institutionaling a "entitlement nanny state".  The flood gate would open and would wash our economy down the drain.

He may be a shark specific to VC, but his understanding of "macro-economy" issues is sorely lacking.
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Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #90 on: March 20, 2017, 11:04:05 PM »
Mark Cuban clearly has no understanding of where our rights come from.

Government does not grant rights.  It only takes them away.
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Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #91 on: March 20, 2017, 11:48:57 PM »

Universities need to be "socialized."   They believe in  "sharing the wealth",  except perhaps when it comes to their own.   


They need to be *FORCED*  to share their wealth,  which in fact only stems from one source;  Credentialism.   

Knowledge nowadays is free to anyone who wants it.  What people cannot get is the imprimatur from a certifying agency without paying through the nose to get  it. 


We need to destroy these bastards that control the credentials so that anyone who wants one can have a college degree.   There is no reason on earth why it should cost $50,000-$100,000 per year to go to college.   


Texas has the right idea with it's $10,000 scholarship program.   The college monopoly needs to be defunded and broken,  and thereafter we would see a lot less harmful indoctrination of people.

When government made it easy to get money for a college education via federally backed college loans people could "afford" more and tuition costs went up accordingly. It is no different than the easy home mortgage money in and around 2004. When access to easy money was made available, the prices of houses went up because people could "afford more". Government intervention causes unnatural distortion to the market and eventually there is hell to pay.

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #92 on: March 21, 2017, 06:29:31 AM »
When government made it easy to get money for a college education via federally backed college loans people could "afford" more and tuition costs went up accordingly. It is no different than the easy home mortgage money in and around 2004. When access to easy money was made available, the prices of houses went up because people could "afford more". Government intervention causes unnatural distortion to the market and eventually there is hell to pay.


And this is exactly right.  Government intervention has also caused most of the problems with health care expenses.   
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #93 on: March 21, 2017, 08:07:47 AM »
Mark should stick to what he knows...and health care isn't one of those areas.
The Constitution has evaded him as well. It doesn't grant Rights, it only points out that the Federal Government isn't supposed to abrogate them and lists some of them. If he thinks there is a tenth Amendment issue, perhaps he should take it up in court.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #94 on: March 21, 2017, 08:16:19 AM »

And this is exactly right.  Government intervention has also caused most of the problems with health care expenses.

Policy design is critical.   It's true that insurance that provides "free" services and low deductibles and copays makes us into poor consumers,  especially if our employers have paid most of the premium costs.   One of the better changes made by the ACA - and one of the most universally reviled, by both employers and unions - is the Cadillac tax,  that would tax employers who maintain the most generous health plans.    Those sorts of plans are what allow doctors and hospitals to charge so much -  patients don't care because those costs are being paid for with other peoples' money.   

For this reason I've supported tax-favored medical savings accounts coupled with high-deductible insurance coverage.   It gives patients real skin in the game and discourages profligate use of health care services.   But what individuals really need are better choices and better information.    If the AHCA reforms can restore a robust and competitive individual insurance market,   I'd like to see employers incentivized to replace their traditional plans with tax-favored contributions to medical reimbursement accounts,   that could be used by employees to purchase insurance - the insurance they want -  in the individual marketplace.   

Much of the revenue needed to support health insurance for the poor could be obtained by eliminating the employer's deduction for health coverage provided over a certain dollar amount,  say $7,000 for individuals and $12,000 for families.    Maybe increase the deduction to $8,000 and $13,000 if the employer declines to sponsor a group health plan and instead contributes that dollar amount to a health reimbursement account that the employee could use to either purchase insurance in the individual market or use to self-insure his or her medical expenses.   Millions of employees would, with such a change, bring their healthy lives into the individual marketplace,  expanding the pool, increasing competition and lowering premium costs. 

I have no ideological aversion to government involvement in health care financing.   What I care about is good policy vs. bad policy.  Good policy makes the difference.   The ACA is bad policy in most respects.  The ACHA is a step in the right direction,  but the real hurdle will be to change fundamentally the current employer-based system.         
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 08:19:31 AM by Jazzhead »
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Offline Restored

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Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #95 on: March 21, 2017, 08:29:25 AM »
Ironically, every country that has Socialized Medicine passed Tort Reform and capped Malpractice amounts before taking on health care.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 08:29:46 AM by Restored »
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #96 on: March 21, 2017, 08:38:37 AM »
Ironically, every country that has Socialized Medicine passed Tort Reform and capped Malpractice amounts before taking on health care.

What do you consider to be just and fair compensation for an individual who is the victim of a medical mistake?   Do you favor a no-fault system with awards based on a schedule? 
"He demanded freedom of expression and lived in what we consider the most important and moral of freedoms: freedom from hate, unconditionally; freedom from self-pity (even throughout all the pain and bad news); freedom from fear of possibly doing something that might help another more than it might himself; and freedom from the kind of pride that could make a man feel he was better than his brother or neighbor."

 - From Duke Ellington's eulogy for Billy Strayhorn

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #97 on: March 21, 2017, 08:40:14 AM »
What do you consider to be just and fair compensation for an individual who is the victim of a medical mistake?   Do you favor a no-fault system with awards based on a schedule?

Punitive damages need to be capped IMO.

One problem with tort reform is that it's basically a state level thing. Hard for the GOP to implement it nationally.
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Offline CSM

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Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #98 on: March 21, 2017, 08:49:28 AM »
If you get sick, you can die.  Is that the "natural liberty" you're so keen to preserve? 

Average Americans can no longer tolerate our system where SHEER LUCK determines whether a catastrophic illness brings bankruptcy and ruin.

I've grown used to strawman arguments from progressives.  You'd rather the Government take complete control of every individual's physical being than bear the responsibility of personal responsibility.  I get it.

Offline CSM

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Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #99 on: March 21, 2017, 08:57:46 AM »
Old age income security is paid for by taxes imposed on all employers/employees.   

If that is true, why is there a constant discussion about starving seniors that have to eat dog food to survive?  In other words, you "feel" better because of that tax, regardless of the actual effectiveness of the program or the real outcome. 

I just did a quick google search and according to the SSA, the average monthly (Jan 2016 data) benefit is $1,341.  That is an outright failure, no matter who pays for it.

You can dream about the same outcome in healthcare, I'll fight for people to have the right to achieve something better.


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