What Defines A Shadow Government?

[Hondo69]

Could it be the definition of a Shadow Government is in the eye of the beholder?

The term has become a hot topic with Barack Obama announcing plans to "remain active" in politics.  With his legion of ardent supporters both inside government agencies and outside in public view any definition of a Shadow Government could easily become blurred between the lines.  Can we come up with an accurate definition?

[1] A coup, whether attempted or realized, would surely qualify as the work of a Shadow Government if the action was supported by governmental agencies.  If we knew, for example, that JFK was killed for his creation of US Notes that competed with the Fed's money control powers and was in turn supported by the CIA and FBI, that would qualify as the action of a Shadow Government without a doubt.  Although suddenly ending a presidency by assassination coup is an extreme example there are obviously less extreme examples that vary by degree.

[2] What if the CIA, FBI and Military Leaders combined forces to bring down a president through non-violent means?  They certainly have incredible power and certainly control a vast array of high-power secrets.  Leaking those high-power secrets could effect tremendous damage to a presidency, especially if leaked in a drip, drip, drip fashion with a blockbuster or two tossed in for good measure.  And given the nature of secrets they don't necessarily have to be true.  Most people would agree this type of coordinated effort to bring down a president would also fall under the definition of a Shadow Government.

[3] Then you have the reverse to consider.  If every major government entity conspired to keep a president in power by using any means possible then we're getting into dicey territory.  Keeping secrets is nothing new, nor is leaning on the press to keep certain things hush hush.  But on the horrifying scale these types of activities do not rank very high.  What if government entities conspired to hide a presidents drug use?  What if a president is obviously becoming unhinged?  Would they force eye witnesses into hiding for fear for their lives or even cause them vanish from this earth?  Now we're into a sliding scale of horrifying events performed by government entities and their unelected surrogates that delves into more grey areas than one can easily imagine.

The term Shadow Government may not be so easy to define.  After all, our government is comprised of very few elected officials.  The vast majority are hidden from public view and in most cases the public has little to no idea what happens behind the scenes.  There are no clearly divisible lines that we all agree cannot be crossed.  We cannot all agree when murder can be justified for example.

We assume Congress provides checks and balances but I see no evidence to support that case.  We also assume the Supreme Court provides their own checks and balances but I see no evidence to support that case.  Anyone care to bring the Justice Department into the conversation?  Didn't think so.

If it were possible to have a national conversation on a topic the definition of a Shadow Government might be a good place start.

[endicom]

Only the Shadow knows.

Every large organization has shadow operations if only in the form of cliques. As for government, keeping it simple and keeping it small is the way to keep the shadow at the level of cliques.

[LateForLunch]

As a judge once said of pornography, " I know it when I see it."

In general the term "deep state" was recently coined by of all people Wikileaks founder Julian Assange but similar terminology predating this generally describes the "entrenched bureaucracy" which endures from administration to administration.

FBI director is a ten year term with the idea in mind that longevity will give some sort of freedom to be objective to the director. That is debatable in regard to Comey's performance since he seemed to vacillate between pandering to the left then to the non-left, back and forth rather than drawing a straight line down the center.

Then there is the Watergate affair, in which an FBI assistant director named Mark Felt (aka Deep Throat) teamed with WaPo reporters Woodword / Bernstein and brought down the Nixon administration by leaking details of the FBI investigation into the Watergate burglary  (initiated by use of wiretaps by the burglars).
   
The difference in regard to the Flynn leaks is that the only crimes committed were by the leakers (Flynn will likely never be charged with any crime) and that presents the possibility that someone who knows what they did will drop dime on them to avoid being implicated.

It might take a long time, but the more active they are, the more likely that they will leave enough evidence to be caught.

The infamous Deep Throat did not have his identity revealed until long after he left the government and he was never prosecuted for collaborating with Woodward ( likely for one thing because no conviction would ever be obtained even if they indicted him because his crimes if any paled in comparison to what he revealed about the crimes of the Nixon government). 

There is a big difference between the Watergate Scandal and the most recent leaks - Flynn did not violate the law when he spoke with the Russians - his resignation was a political decision, not based on having done anything unlawful. Felt revealed criminal behavior by Nixon administration officials and operatives. The information he  passed to Woodward were phone records of direct contact between Haldeman and the Watergate burglars taken from the ongoing FBI investigation triggered by the fact that the Watergate burglars had used wiretapping equipment in some surveillance of their target(s) - a federal crime.

The leaking by the Flynn-related information which was from top secret phone recordings/records of NSA-executed taps of communication with foreign leaders or other legal, privileged communications between the president of the United States and other U.S. citizens would be serious felonies - agents are sworn by an oath and bound by law just as any other resident of the U.S,. not to engage in espionage.

The last and perhaps the most damaging thing legally to the principle actors in the most recent leaks is that their motivation appears to be political, not (as with Felt) because he was trying to protect the reputation of the FBI so as not to have them appear to be protecting a president who was engaged in illegal activity while in office.

Engaging in political espionage using privileged information obtained because of possessing top secret clearances would most likely be viewed very unfavorably by a court and by an impartial jury since it is under many statutes (most egregiously the Espionage Act) grossly illegal.

Trying to use a defense that they were concerned about ethics would not be a very strong case- since they could have reported their concerns to their superiors and a formal investigation could have been launched by the DOJ or Congress.

Since no criminal charges have been filed in regard to Flynn's contact with Russian government officials(or likely will be filed), arguing that the leaker(s) were trying to promote justice by engaging in numerous felonies which only had the effect of inflicting political damage on the Trump administration, would be fairly laughable.

 

[Sanguine]

Bookmark.

[Hondo69]

As a judge once said of pornography, " I know it when I see it."

In general the term "deep state" was recently coined by of all people Wikileaks founder Julian Assange but similar terminology predating this generally describes the "entrenched bureaucracy" which endures from administration to administration.

I like the term Deep State because it implies nefarious intentions.  Therefore, by default, the connotations it invokes allows people's imaginations to run wild - and they should.

The ideological war being fought in the United States is one of class warfare in my opinion, but also can be viewed as a big government vs small government battle.  Every day we are bombarded with flare ups depicting individual battles but at the end of the day each is only so much white noise that only serves to muddle the big picture.

We see half of the country protesting in the streets and carrying signs promoting big government.  I want fewer choices they say.  I want someone else to make life decisions for me they cry.  Their signs don't use those exact words, but that is what they really mean.

Then we half the other half of the country saying get big government out of my life.  I don't like those lies you feed us and the way you make everything you touch ten times worse.  Leave me the hell alone.

So in one sense it doesn't really matter if a Deep State exists or not.  If people believe dark forces are at work behind the scenes then it serves the greater good in my opinion.  Distrusting big government is a very healthy state of mind.

If I was so inclined I could write several encyclopedias worth of information making the case for distrusting big government.  It is a very easy case to make with mountains of evidence for backup.  But it's really no more complicated than turning on your TV for five minutes or opening your front door and taking a good look around.  The evidence is readily apparent for anyone to see.

Sometimes it takes a little nudge for people to open their eyes, however.

[Hondo69]

About Class Warfare

The Emperor Has No Clothes is the upshot of Hans Christian Andersen's story  “The Emperor’s New Clothes”.  It tells the story of an elitist who is so vain and so detached from reality that exposing him as a pure fraud turned out to be child's play.  It is also the same reason Trump won the election.

American elitists have historically hailed from New England and/or been educated at Ivy League schools.  The wild and woolly country boy Andrew Jackson was elected president simply because he ridiculed the pretentious power elite.  He and the rest of the country had grown tired of their failures and became easy fodder for the butt of their jokes.

Today, the public views an Ivy League education as the kiss of death.  We've seen enough, we don't want any more.  A theoretical white paper whipped up in Cambridge became the nightmare we know as ObamaCare.  And Ivy Leaguers have been tapped so often for key government positions over the years one could make the case by citing their many failures for a Constitutional Amendment - No More Ivy Leaguers.  Don't let them within 10 miles of Washington D.C.  Their track record couldn't possibly be worse.

American colleges in general have become nothing but group-think programmers of young minds full of mush.  Free speech and mind expanding ideas went out the window a long time ago at "higher level learning institutions".  At least they got the "institutions" part right.  No outside voices are allowed as we've seen again and again, most recently at the violent protests at Middlebury College in Vermont.  The thought police preach tolerance - by demanding intolerance.  Opposing views are verboten within the institutional bubble.

The same group-think mentality of elitists is alive and well in our media.  If you belong to the club you can toast yourself on a regular basis, though it is becoming increasing hard to squeeze in the time since defending fake news is nearly a full time job these days.  It is these same pundits and experts that gave us a 100% guaranteed Hillary victory, right up until 10:00 PM the night of the election.

We have sophisticated economists with their fancy algorithms that give us a 20 trillion dollar debt.  And the super elite can justify endless budgets for diversity training and sensitivity studies, but not a dime for our crumbling infrastructure.  The entire state of California is collapsing faster than the experts can prepare studies predicting total failure.  Our justice system proves there really are two Americas, and you and I drew the short straw.  It wasn't the farmers and plumbers of America that delivered us a total breakdown of the fabric of our society.

Trump's election as president was really no more complicated than the deplorables deciding to "just say no" to the elites.  We're tired of being told to sit down and shut up.  You really aren't any smarter than the rest of us, we don't care where you were born or went to college.  You failed, now sit down and shut up.

If you really want an expert pundit to trot out before the cameras we'll be glad to pull a farmer off his tractor in Iowa and send him to you. 

[EasyAce]

If you can think of anything more shadowy in the United States than government, you're a better
man than I Gunga Din . . .