What Was the Point of Winning the Election?

[libertybele]

The Republican Party is the melting pot for American capitalists, and for those of us that appreciate the heritage and history we were taught in school. 

It's for those of us who grew up with 30-60 minute Westerns, where Christian morals and fairness won out before the last commercial.

Many Americans still don't realize how close we came to LOSING the Republic last November 8th....with this "open borders" crap for another 8 years??

John Wayne was my hero!  I grew up with the Real McCoys, Bonanza, Gunsmoke, Lassie, Rawhide, etc.  American pride was rampant and respect for our country and for one another was taught in our schools.  Immigrants assimilated.  They learned the language and wanted to become Americans rather than expect America to assimilate to them. Mothers were able to stay home to take care of their children as families were able to survive on one income.  Yes we came very close to losing our Republic and you are right many don't realize how close we came to losing her; heck many don't even realize that we are a Republic. With all the seemingly frivolous hearings, accusations, fake news and a very strong and real attempt to derail this presidency, I'm not so sure we're out of the woods.

[Smokin Joe]

John Wayne was my hero!  I grew up with the Real McCoys, Bonanza, Gunsmoke, Lassie, Rawhide, etc.  American pride was rampant and respect for our country and for one another was taught in our schools.  Immigrants assimilated.  They learned the language and wanted to become Americans rather than expect America to assimilate to them. Mothers were able to stay home to take care of their children as families were able to survive on one income.  Yes we came very close to losing our Republic and you are right many don't realize how close we came to losing her; heck many don't even realize that we are a Republic. With all the seemingly frivolous hearings, accusations, fake news and a very strong and real attempt to derail this presidency, I'm not so sure we're out of the woods.

We are far from out of the woods. I think the only reason we don't seem as deep is that you can only go half way in before you are on your way out the other side. That doesn't mean we will come out of the woods, or that if we do we will come out into familiar or even desirable terrain.

Without belaboring the point the fact that we ended up with the contenders we did and that the contest was so close in terms of popular vote--and that it has been so now for 5 presidential election cycles tells me this country is in serious philosophical trouble. No matter which side you are on, half of the people out there are idiots and enemies of the vision you may have for this country, and for those who would like something of a return to the original Republic, the numbers of those opposed are even greater, many of whom superficially self-identify as people who should be in agreement. The soi-disant conservatives are a threat to the very identity of conservatism, and without realizing it, the Republic.
Half measures toward the restoration thereof are the lukewarm, the neither hot nor cold that simply will not work, but is spewed from mouths all over in the name of compromise and pragmatism and the 'good' that stands in the way of demanding the perfect.
Sorry about the rant, but I think this Republic is still in serious trouble, and the most distressing part is that those who claim to be with us are watering down the measures which need to be taken.

[INVAR]

We are far from out of the woods. I think the only reason we don't seem as deep is that you can only go half way in before you are on your way out the other side. That doesn't mean we will come out of the woods, or that if we do we will come out into familiar or even desirable terrain.

Without belaboring the point the fact that we ended up with the contenders we did and that the contest was so close in terms of popular vote--and that it has been so now for 5 presidential election cycles tells me this country is in serious philosophical trouble. No matter which side you are on, half of the people out there are idiots and enemies of the vision you may have for this country, and for those who would like something of a return to the original Republic, the numbers of those opposed are even greater, many of whom superficially self-identify as people who should be in agreement. The soi-disant conservatives are a threat to the very identity of conservatism, and without realizing it, the Republic.
Half measures toward the restoration thereof are the lukewarm, the neither hot nor cold that simply will not work, but is spewed from mouths all over in the name of compromise and pragmatism and the 'good' that stands in the way of demanding the perfect.
Sorry about the rant, but I think this Republic is still in serious trouble, and the most distressing part is that those who claim to be with us are watering down the measures which need to be taken.

[bilo]

After campaigning for six years to repeal-replace, they must deliver. So only now, they come up with this 3 phase stuff.

And phase 3 requires a 60 vote Senate majority. It shouldn't be that difficult. The 60 votes is NOT in the constitution.

My instinct is they are protecting the status quo, the establishment, holding to the plans and proposals put forth by lawyers and lobbyists for the mega-health insurance industry.

Not willing to revert to a completely free market. A free market whereby the "single payer" is the consumer himself.

Employers can insure if they want. Consumers can buy policies if they want. But nobody is compelled to do anything.

Doctors and hospitals can take installments on costly procedures.

The poor, as always will be treated out of charity. Just like in the 40s-50s-60s when we were great.

 

Health care is the only service business I know of where you can't get a price for the service up front. Because of obamacare I joined a Christian Healthcare co-op that offers a 10K deductible. The premium is less than half of what I was paying before obamacare, which works for me because I really only want coverage for catastrophic events. So I negotiate with doctors for services. The first question I get from the office mgr is always the same "who is your insurance with". It takes 10 miniutes on average to get through to this person that I will pay for the service myself when I receive the service. They usually then quote what they bill the insurance companies. I then have to spend another 10 minutes asking what does the insurance company pay you. When I finally get that price I then have to ask how much of a discount off that price will they offer for immediate payment at time of service instead of waiting 6 months and how much of a discount is there for no paper work. Some doctors work with us some don't. One thing I have learned is that you really want to avoid anything that requires going to a hospital because hospital fees are even worse.

So far the Pubs haven't even come close to offering a market based healthcare reform. A real market based system would free consumers to spend their money where they want to and pricing would be clear from the begining. The Oklahoma Surgery Center is a great example.

https://surgerycenterok.com/

The more we go down this road of govt providing healthcare (direct or indirect) the sooner we will be like all the other countries with socialized medicine. The vast majority will get substandard care and those who can afford to will pay for services themselves and receive the best care that can be found.

[The_Reader_David]

It’s time to scrap the patch and unleash the free market.
https://townhall.com/columnists/derekhunter/2017/03/19/what-was-the-point-of-winning-the-election-n2301048

Unfortunately that is easier said than done.  Even before Obamacare both health insurance and health care (despite the 'Rat propaganda pretending they are the same thing, they are not -- health care is the basket of physicians and allied health professionals provide, health insurance is the way we've contrived to pay for health care) have not been offered by anything like a free market since at least the 1940's, and we have a huge regulatory superstructure at both the federal and state level that would have to be largely dismantled to get their provision back to anything like free market conditions.

So long as health insurance is more or less tied to being employed (by a large employer, not self-employed) or poor, there will not be an effective market in health insurance.  So long as health insurance cannot be sold across state lines, even if it were no longer tied to employment or poverty, there will not be an effective market in health insurance.

So long as health care is paid for almost exclusively by health insurance, rather than largely by the users or beneficiaries of the services directly, there will never be an effective market in health care. 

Whole industries have grown up for no reason other than the regulatory climate we have had for decades, which Obamacare only slightly exacerbated, to wit, the medical billing industry.  Yes, that's a real thing.  There are thousands of people whose job it is to minutely classify everything physicians and allied health professionals do to report it on insurance claims, for which they get a cut of the money that otherwise
go to the physician.  They are "needed" because rather than a physician's time being worth, say $200/hour, or a psychologist's worth, say $130/hour, another parasitic industry with one foot in government and another, the health care bureaucrats, have come up with "values" for procedures and limits on coverage (the patient came in for complaint X symptomatic of disease Y, which is covered, but turned out instead to have disease Z which isn't, so the physician doesn't get paid).  This is called "containing health care costs", but no one has ever run the numbers to see how much of health care costs are really going to the medical billing industry and how much to the healthcare bureacrats, and whether the "savings" from not paying physicians and allied health professionals for their services wouldn't be outstripped by tossing the medical billers and bureacrats onto the unemployment line and just paying those who actually provide health care a competitive wage commensurate with the value of their services.

[Applewood]

If Obamacare is not repealed, I won't vote for a Republican in any future election.  The party can kiss my fat rear.   I'm tired of the lies and broken promises.

[DCPatriot]

We are far from out of the woods. I think the only reason we don't seem as deep is that you can only go half way in before you are on your way out the other side. That doesn't mean we will come out of the woods, or that if we do we will come out into familiar or even desirable terrain.

Without belaboring the point the fact that we ended up with the contenders we did and that the contest was so close in terms of popular vote--and that it has been so now for 5 presidential election cycles tells me this country is in serious philosophical trouble. No matter which side you are on, half of the people out there are idiots and enemies of the vision you may have for this country, and for those who would like something of a return to the original Republic, the numbers of those opposed are even greater, many of whom superficially self-identify as people who should be in agreement. The soi-disant conservatives are a threat to the very identity of conservatism, and without realizing it, the Republic.
Half measures toward the restoration thereof are the lukewarm, the neither hot nor cold that simply will not work, but is spewed from mouths all over in the name of compromise and pragmatism and the 'good' that stands in the way of demanding the perfect.
Sorry about the rant, but I think this Republic is still in serious trouble, and the most distressing part is that those who claim to be with us are watering down the measures which need to be taken.

Amen!   

[libertybele]

After elections are over, there are only a few things you can do.  You can call/write your congresspersons ...you can express yourself on social media and you can write letters to the editor.

It's frustrating.  But why do people forget and forgive the next time these morons run for election?  We need to put a stop to that.

The morons keep getting re-elected because many remain unchallenged, have accumulated more money to defend their seat than their opponent or the person that would replace them is worse than they are.  Sad, but true.

[Free Vulcan]

This is why I'm focused on state politics. Here in Iowa we got back the Senate and the GOP is kicking tail.

If the Fedgov doesn't do a 180 soon, we're just going to stumble bumble along till we financially fall apart and fracture as a nation. I feel it's far better to make sure the home front is in order.

[kevindavis007]

I used to think that the left was civics challenged.. But after reading this article, I was wrong.

[Oceander]

Unfortunately that is easier said than done.  Even before Obamacare both health insurance and health care (despite the 'Rat propaganda pretending they are the same thing, they are not -- health care is the basket of physicians and allied health professionals provide, health insurance is the way we've contrived to pay for health care) have not been offered by anything like a free market since at least the 1940's, and we have a huge regulatory superstructure at both the federal and state level that would have to be largely dismantled to get their provision back to anything like free market conditions.

So long as health insurance is more or less tied to being employed (by a large employer, not self-employed) or poor, there will not be an effective market in health insurance.  So long as health insurance cannot be sold across state lines, even if it were no longer tied to employment or poverty, there will not be an effective market in health insurance.

So long as health care is paid for almost exclusively by health insurance, rather than largely by the users or beneficiaries of the services directly, there will never be an effective market in health care. 

Whole industries have grown up for no reason other than the regulatory climate we have had for decades, which Obamacare only slightly exacerbated, to wit, the medical billing industry.  Yes, that's a real thing.  There are thousands of people whose job it is to minutely classify everything physicians and allied health professionals do to report it on insurance claims, for which they get a cut of the money that otherwise
go to the physician.  They are "needed" because rather than a physician's time being worth, say $200/hour, or a psychologist's worth, say $130/hour, another parasitic industry with one foot in government and another, the health care bureaucrats, have come up with "values" for procedures and limits on coverage (the patient came in for complaint X symptomatic of disease Y, which is covered, but turned out instead to have disease Z which isn't, so the physician doesn't get paid).  This is called "containing health care costs", but no one has ever run the numbers to see how much of health care costs are really going to the medical billing industry and how much to the healthcare bureacrats, and whether the "savings" from not paying physicians and allied health professionals for their services wouldn't be outstripped by tossing the medical billers and bureacrats onto the unemployment line and just paying those who actually provide health care a competitive wage commensurate with the value of their services.

Spot on!

[truth_seeker]

It is now or never.

As a point of factual reference, the current plan we call "Obamacare" was signed into law March 23, 2010. (EIGHT months from now, equivalent)

This current GOP effort is moving faster, than did the democrat effort.

As appoint of another fact, Sen. Collins was elected in 2014 with 68% of the votes. So she was NOT up for election in 2016, and she won't be in 2018, either.

The individual holdout Republicans have local situations; local constituencies.

Finally Trump himself ran on "repeal AND replace," like it (or him) or not.

The media and democrats are pushing, pushing. Take it easy, relax, sharpen the plan and do the best they can.

[kevindavis007]

You forget one very important difference between Democrats and Republicans @DCPatriot --- The Democrats hang together--through thick and thin.  Hillary's breathtaking defeat should have shattered the Democrats.  It did not.  They are in our faces 24/7.  They and the MSM speak from one page of talking points, hammering their "truth".  NO Democrat congressman or senator will be primaried because of their vote against repeal of Obamacare.  With one voice they will be celebrated.

Republicans on the other hand, splinter like cheap wood.  They don't have each other's backs---not even the President's.  They use each other's backs as a stepping stone to the highest moral, purist level possible and to rehash hurt feelings.  When looking at Republicans one does not admire their strength, one snickers at their unique talent to grab defeat from the jaws of victory.  There will be many primary fights in the Republican Party--but to what end I cannot even imagine.

We can threaten to form a Constitution Party.  We can carry through on that threat.  But by the time this party is strong enough to matter, it most assuredly will not.

It is now or never.

I'm inclined to agree with you on this.

[NavyCanDo]

Saying it was pointless winning the election is not thinking the whole thing through very well. Yes, repealing and replacing Obamacare, which was a campaign promise of every GOP candidate in one way or another, is not going very well.  Does anyone think it would have gone any smoother with any of the other candidates?   I think we would be in the same quagmire, if Cruise, Rubio, or any of the others had one.   I don't think funding a "border wall" will go any easier, and frankly I never did think what was proposed was achievable or affordable.

Rather than looking at what we did not get out of this election, lets look at what we got so far.   A SCOTUS appointee. That would have been Hillary picking a person - remember that.    With a few exceptions, his cabinet appointments have been positive. Also Tax reform, the Pipeline, and offshore drilling can be through in with many other small victories. 

I didn't vote for him, and I still find him rather obnoxious - but he's our President and there is no going back.   

[kevindavis007]

Rather than looking at what we did not get out of this election, lets look at what we got so far.   A SCOTUS appointee. That would have been Hillary picking a person - remember that.    With a few exceptions, his cabinet appointments have been positive. Also Tax reform, the Pipeline, and offshore drilling can be through in with many other small victories. 

It is best to have the small victories and build upon them.

[Smokin Joe]

Saying it was pointless winning the election is not thinking the whole thing through very well. Yes, repealing and replacing Obamacare, which was a campaign promise of every GOP candidate in one way or another, is not going very well.  Does anyone think it would have gone any smoother with any of the other candidates?   I think we would be in the same quagmire, if Cruise, Rubio, or any of the others had one.   I don't think funding a "border wall" will go any easier, and frankly I never did think what was proposed was achievable or affordable.

Rather than looking at what we did not get out of this election, lets look at what we got so far.   A SCOTUS appointee. That would have been Hillary picking a person - remember that.    With a few exceptions, his cabinet appointments have been positive. Also Tax reform, the Pipeline, and offshore drilling can be through in with many other small victories. 

I didn't vote for him, and I still find him rather obnoxious - but he's our President and there is no going back.

If the problem were just the potus, well, that'd be one guy and easily enough remedied next time.

Unfortunately, it is not so much the problem as the GOP in Congress, and then not all of them. You see, in some districts Republican or Democrat is just a brand, like Coke, Pepsi, or RC Cola. No matter what you vote for, the flavor is basically the same (only subtle differences in sweetness and aftertaste).

Those districts want a middle of the road Liberal, a JFK, not a Barry Goldwater to represent them in Congress. They want someone who will bring home the bacon, first and foremost, and get that Gubmint money in their home district, keep the navy base open even if it is a thousand miles from open water, pave the streets with grants, and give folks a lot of fat phony baloney obs to choose from. They don't so much give a diddley damn about politics, about the Constitution, rights in general, balance of power, States' Rights or any of it so long as the show is good, the bread is piping hot, and they get to ride the elephant during intermission.

Now, in the districts which still have voters who care about the things I have named above, not so much including 'higher education grants' or base closures, or even paving the roads, people want someone who will be a regular Mr. Smith in Washington, and vote for that, but Mr. Smith can't get sh*t done because other people who are supposedly aligned with his brand aren't in fact aligned with anything but getting reelected, rolling the pork barrel home, and lining their pockets, directly or indirectly.

And that's why we're in the mess we're in. The Democrats embrace the liberal agenda, which their voters support, and vote en bloc. The Republicans come in more flavors than Ben and Jerry's and have a new one every month.

[INVAR]

If the problem were just the potus, well, that'd be one guy and easily enough remedied next time.

Unfortunately, it is not so much the problem as the GOP in Congress, and then not all of them. You see, in some districts Republican or Democrat is just a brand, like Coke, Pepsi, or RC Cola. No matter what you vote for, the flavor is basically the same (only subtle differences in sweetness and aftertaste).

Those districts want a middle of the road Liberal, a JFK, not a Barry Goldwater to represent them in Congress. They want someone who will bring home the bacon, first and foremost, and get that Gubmint money in their home district, keep the navy base open even if it is a thousand miles from open water, pave the streets with grants, and give folks a lot of fat phony baloney obs to choose from. They don't so much give a diddley damn about politics, about the Constitution, rights in general, balance of power, States' Rights or any of it so long as the show is good, the bread is piping hot, and they get to ride the elephant during intermission.

Now, in the districts which still have voters who care about the things I have named above, not so much including 'higher education grants' or base closures, or even paving the roads, people want someone who will be a regular Mr. Smith in Washington, and vote for that, but Mr. Smith can't get sh*t done because other people who are supposedly aligned with his brand aren't in fact aligned with anything but getting reelected, rolling the pork barrel home, and lining their pockets, directly or indirectly.

And that's why we're in the mess we're in. The Democrats embrace the liberal agenda, which their voters support, and vote en bloc. The Republicans come in more flavors than Ben and Jerry's and have a new one every month.

Poetic.

Self-evident.

And True.

On top of the fact the majority populace WANTS and the majority GOP WANTS Socialism and Statism.

So, having no principles except to 'win' and 'stop the other guy 'cause they're worse' - Socialism is where we will stay on our journey to outright Communism.

And people will lie to themselves that they are 'free', because there's bread, beer, pizza and porn still being served and available.

[Oceander]

Complaining about there even an iota of socialism in the US system is kind of pointless as there are already components that would be called socialist baked into the cake.  To take one easily gored ox: social security.  How many of those here who complain about socialism are just as opposed to social security?  How many plan to turn down their SSA benefits?

[Right_in_Virginia]

As a point of factual reference, the current plan we call "Obamacare" was signed into law March 23, 2010. (EIGHT months from now, equivalent)

This current GOP effort is moving faster, than did the democrat effort.

As appoint of another fact, Sen. Collins was elected in 2014 with 68% of the votes. So she was NOT up for election in 2016, and she won't be in 2018, either.

The individual holdout Republicans have local situations; local constituencies.

Finally Trump himself ran on "repeal AND replace," like it (or him) or not.

The media and democrats are pushing, pushing. Take it easy, relax, sharpen the plan and do the best they can.

How the hell long @truth_seeker do we "relax"?   

They've had eight long years to think about this and have been under the gun to define a solution for eight months--- since the Republican victory in November.  Not doing it and doing it now is inexcusable and justifies throwing this whole damn political party into the dustbin of history.

Relax ...  :talkhand:

[INVAR]

Complaining about there even an iota of socialism in the US system is kind of pointless as there are already components that would be called socialist baked into the cake.  To take one easily gored ox: social security.  How many of those here who complain about socialism are just as opposed to social security?  How many plan to turn down their SSA benefits?

So I guess let us have more socialism then?  Accept more socialism?  Be comfortable with more Socialism?

Shut up and enjoy your Socialism?

Apparently so.

Up until the time we run out of other people's money.

[Cyber Liberty]

Complaining about there even an iota of socialism in the US system is kind of pointless as there are already components that would be called socialist baked into the cake.  To take one easily gored ox: social security.  How many of those here who complain about socialism are just as opposed to social security?  How many plan to turn down their SSA benefits?

I'm not sure how to respond to that.  I never wanted the government to take my income for SS, but now that they have, I want it back with interest compounded.  Does that make me a socialist?

[Silver Pines]

There was no point.  It's just spectator sports now...cheer for the right team no matter what.

[Hoodat]

The time for taking responsibility is here.   Conservatives who obstruct are just as much a menace as liberals who obstruct.   

The only thing Conservatives are obstructing is liberalism.

[Oceander]

I'm not sure how to respond to that.  I never wanted the government to take my income for SS, but now that they have, I want it back with interest compounded.  Does that make me a socialist?

Are you entitled to get your other tax payments back with interest compounded?  Is that how the tax system is supposed to work?

Social security and Medicare taxes are just that - taxes, compulsory revenue extracted by the sovereign from people under its jurisdiction - and not an investment made in your name.  Your entitlement to social security is nothing more than a socialist entitlement to government support.  I.e., welfare. 

[Cyber Liberty]

Are you entitled to get your other tax payments back with interest compounded?  Is that how the tax system is supposed to work?

Social security and Medicare taxes are just that - taxes, compulsory revenue extracted by the sovereign from people under its jurisdiction - and not an investment made in your name.  Your entitlement to social security is nothing more than a socialist entitlement to government support.  I.e., welfare.

SS wasn't meant to be a tax, so employing a legal fiction to say that it is is dishonest.