Author Topic: Are Collapsing Pensions "About To Bring Hell To America"?  (Read 782 times)

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Offline SirLinksALot

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Are Collapsing Pensions "About To Bring Hell To America"?
« on: March 16, 2017, 06:13:13 PM »

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Are Collapsing Pensions "About To Bring Hell To America"?
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2017, 06:45:09 PM »
NO BAILOUTS!
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Are Collapsing Pensions "About To Bring Hell To America"?
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2017, 06:59:47 PM »

Can you say "Haircut?"
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Online InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Re: Are Collapsing Pensions "About To Bring Hell To America"?
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2017, 07:23:57 PM »
This is a great example of why I don't believe in governments taking on long term obligations.

If you or I take out a 30 year mortgage, we're on the hook for the next 30 years. 

If a polician (and by extension, the taxpayer) "guarantees" a public worker a benefit in 30 years, the ones making the promise generally aren't the ones on the hook politically or financially when it comes due.

If my grandfathers' generation made a promise to defend, say, South Korea, I don't see how my grandchildren can be expected to honor it.  They didn't make the promise, or even have met the people that did.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Are Collapsing Pensions "About To Bring Hell To America"?
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2017, 10:09:09 AM »
The #1 goal in this is that there is no such thing as a budget item being sacrosanct, including pensions.

It is just another line item, as countless employees of private companies have learned over the years in failed companies.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 10:09:26 AM by IsailedawayfromFR »
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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Are Collapsing Pensions "About To Bring Hell To America"?
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2017, 10:17:46 AM »
The #1 goal in this is that there is no such thing as a budget item being sacrosanct, including pensions.

It is just another line item, as countless employees of private companies have learned over the years in failed companies.


If they had been given 401(k)'s or 403(b)'s instead of pensions they'd have little (or less) to worry about.
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Offline mirraflake

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Re: Are Collapsing Pensions "About To Bring Hell To America"?
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2017, 10:26:04 AM »
A friend of mine is a school teacher and so is his wife. They were making approx 65k per year each.  Retired at age 53-54  and both receive approx 85-89% of their post retirement pay.

The husband after waiting for one year got another job  teaching so he gets his new salary plus his pension..

And they wonder why the system is going broke.

If I was dictator I would require all gov't employees to work to in age 62





Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Are Collapsing Pensions "About To Bring Hell To America"?
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2017, 04:06:56 PM »

If they had been given 401(k)'s or 403(b)'s instead of pensions they'd have little (or less) to worry about.
and neither would taxpayers as they would not absorb the obligation beyond the initial contribution
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geronl

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Re: Are Collapsing Pensions "About To Bring Hell To America"?
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2017, 04:22:57 PM »
Public Sector Pensions: Government over-promised and under-delivered on these pensions. Not only did they promise too much but they refused to even fully fund them at the time. Taxpayers should not be on the hook for this, these contracts and the way they were handled are criminal offenses in my opinion.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 04:23:21 PM by geronl »

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Are Collapsing Pensions "About To Bring Hell To America"?
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2017, 05:53:08 PM »
Public Sector Pensions: Government over-promised and under-delivered on these pensions. Not only did they promise too much but they refused to even fully fund them at the time. Taxpayers should not be on the hook for this, these contracts and the way they were handled are criminal offenses in my opinion.

They could, right now, take whatever cash is in the fund, divide it proportionally, convert it to a 401k, and call it a day. But they won't do that, they will kick the can as long as they can.
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Offline Elderberry

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Re: Are Collapsing Pensions "About To Bring Hell To America"?
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2017, 06:12:13 PM »
A friend of mine is a school teacher and so is his wife. They were making approx 65k per year each.  Retired at age 53-54  and both receive approx 85-89% of their post retirement pay.

The husband after waiting for one year got another job  teaching so he gets his new salary plus his pension..

And they wonder why the system is going broke.

If I was dictator I would require all gov't employees to work to in age 62

I worked for 30 years as a NASA Subcontractor. I retired at 62 and my pension is approx 22% of my final salary. The company froze the pensions some ten years ago. Employees after that don't get pensions.

It makes me sick when I hear how cushy public pensions are.

geronl

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Re: Are Collapsing Pensions "About To Bring Hell To America"?
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2017, 06:25:35 PM »
A friend of mine is a school teacher and so is his wife. They were making approx 65k per year each.  Retired at age 53-54  and both receive approx 85-89% of their post retirement pay.

Some of these public employees don't even have to contribute their own earnings to the pension either.

Offline bigheadfred

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Re: Are Collapsing Pensions "About To Bring Hell To America"?
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2017, 10:17:53 AM »
Some of these public employees don't even have to contribute their own earnings to the pension either.

I would say most. They are welfare recipients. And I object.

Online Joe Wooten

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Re: Are Collapsing Pensions "About To Bring Hell To America"?
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2017, 02:21:05 PM »
Some of these public employees don't even have to contribute their own earnings to the pension either.

And darn near all public pensions give out annual COL raises to those getting the pensions. No private sector pension still in existence does that.

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Are Collapsing Pensions "About To Bring Hell To America"?
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2017, 02:48:23 PM »
Short answer is yes, yes they are. Studen loans too.

And keep an eye on the ag sector now that land prices are falling.
And a country boy will survive.

Online thackney

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Re: Are Collapsing Pensions "About To Bring Hell To America"?
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2017, 03:35:37 PM »
Short answer is yes, yes they are. Studen loans too.

And keep an eye on the ag sector now that land prices are falling.

Land prices are falling?
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Are Collapsing Pensions "About To Bring Hell To America"?
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2017, 05:38:32 PM »
Land prices are falling?
I subscribe to Progressive Farmer Magazine to stay on top of current farm and livestock news.

It conducts a farmer confidence survey and results are below.  With this level of confidence, I would not be surprised if land prices fall, at least on average for the ag sector.

Yearning to stay free takes place in many ways at many different times, whether by withstanding planes or bayonets

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Are Collapsing Pensions "About To Bring Hell To America"?
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2017, 12:32:01 AM »
Land prices are falling?

Yep. Keep in mind that at least in Iowa, local and state govts derive revenue from property taxes, of which ag land is a significant part of that. Lower ag values, lower tax revenue.

And the banks of course are heavily tied in with the ag sector, particularly with small towns. Falling land prices erode their financial position.



Iowa farmland values fall for third year

http://www.thegazette.com/subject/news/business/iowa-farmland-values-fall-for-third-year-20161227
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Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Are Collapsing Pensions "About To Bring Hell To America"?
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2017, 03:17:02 AM »
Land prices are falling?
Happening in boom towns, for sure. With 80% reduction in drilling rigs, rents have dropped significantly, and locally they overbuilt housing so the price is dropping. Typical post-boom curve so far. Minerals won't go with the land, but that's a given any more here.

Wages are dropping, too. Grandkids and their friends are informing me the burger flippers who once got 15/hour are down to 12-13, no sign on bonuses, and no housing allowance. (IOW, things are getting 'back to normal' in town). Walmart is the hot job, at $16/hr in the non oil patch sector for entry level folks.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
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And I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses. Nehemiah 4:14 (KJV)

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Online thackney

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Re: Are Collapsing Pensions "About To Bring Hell To America"?
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2017, 08:11:48 AM »
Yep. Keep in mind that at least in Iowa, local and state govts derive revenue from property taxes, of which ag land is a significant part of that. Lower ag values, lower tax revenue.

While in some areas the prices are in multi-year declines, in others multi-year increases in value.  Overall, the average US farmland price has risen until last year, with a very slight decrease.  The average price is up nearly 20% from just 4 years ago.

@Free Vulcan , @IsailedawayfromFR , @Smokin Joe ,

Farm Real Estate, Average Value per Acre
http://usda.mannlib.cornell.edu/usda/current/AgriLandVa/AgriLandVa-08-05-2016.txt

2012:  $2,520
2013:  $2,730
2014:  $2,950
2015:  $3,020
2016:  $3,010
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Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Are Collapsing Pensions "About To Bring Hell To America"?
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2017, 08:29:40 AM »
North Dakota: 1,160     1,550     1,820     1,920     1,830

It's dropping now, nearly $100 in the last year.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 08:30:23 AM by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression
And I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses. Nehemiah 4:14 (KJV)

About the only "Big" Liberals don't revile is "Big Government"


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