Author Topic: BREAKING: U.S. Senate REVERSED Major Obama Law. He’s Reportedly FURIOUS!  (Read 9214 times)

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Offline Emjay

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The conversation got to where it did because we were assured the government would create the level playing field for all, thus making rules like drug testing people for Unemployment benefits unneeded.

It could not possibly be clearer.  People getting unemployment benefits are required to be willing and able to work and to apply for jobs a certain number of times per week, etc.

People who cannot pass drug tests are not eligible to work as the vast majority of companies demand a drug test prior to employment.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Should folks who drink alcohol receive unemployment benefits?
To qualify for unemployment (among other things) you can't have been fired for cause. Drinking alcohol chronically to excess causes other problems with workplace performance, and drinking on the job is cause for dismissal. If these were the reason the person is unemployed (IOW, they were fired) they are not eligible for unemployment.
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Offline libertybele

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Oh crap.  Not this again.  Ok....I'll play.

Yes, God gave us ALL free will, but he is always there to help us if and when we screw up and ask for His help.  How hard is that to understand?   If our choices lead us away from God, that's on us.  If our choices in life lead us to God, then it was all worth it in the "end" (ie the afterlife/eternity).

That's how I see it.

Not crap.  I continue to question 'free will'.  God is all knowing, therefore he knows what we are going to do and the choices we are going to make; therefore, how can that be free will??  I have asked this question of several clergy and have yet to receive an answer that is definitive.
Romans 12:16-21

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Offline sneakypete

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Awwww...  Poor whiny little child.    It's about time he finally got himself a spanking.   


@DiogenesLamp

You would think he would be excited about getting a spanking he didn't have to pay for,wouldn't you?
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Offline sneakypete

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I think the point here is to make life harder on drug users.   

@DiogenesLamp

Not necessary. They make life hard enough on themselves. No outside help is needed.
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Offline sneakypete

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People who cannot pass drug tests are not eligible to work as the vast majority of companies demand a drug test prior to employment.

@Emjay

Other than menial jobs with maximum supervision,regular drug users/addicts are also incapable of holding any job they might get,and any unemployed person that isn't an addict/regular drug user who isn't smart enough to not take drugs for a period long enough to pass the drug tests in order to qualify for unemployment is too stupid to hold a job.
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Online Bigun

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Not crap.  I continue to question 'free will'.  God is all knowing, therefore he knows what we are going to do and the choices we are going to make; therefore, how can that be free will??  I have asked this question of several clergy and have yet to receive an answer that is definitive.

Exercising your free agency is the entire purpose for your time here on earth!
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Offline XenaLee

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Not crap.  I continue to question 'free will'.  God is all knowing, therefore he knows what we are going to do and the choices we are going to make; therefore, how can that be free will??  I have asked this question of several clergy and have yet to receive an answer that is definitive.

How, exactly, are you managing to equate "all knowing" with "all controlling"?  Just because He knows what will happen does NOT mean that he is controlling what will happen.  Time is, after all, a concept that only we are constrained by.  God knows no such constraints in my belief.

This life is a test.  You either do your best to pass it or you blow the test off.  Your choice.   :laugh:
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 02:35:55 pm by XenaLee »
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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Exercising your free agency is the entire purpose for your time here on earth!


 :thumbsup:

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Freedom of choice is the entire reason I'm a capitalist.

Offline verga

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Why is that?
@Suppressed When I drove a school bus I had to do a pre-employment drug test. We had a scheduled drug test and could have up to 3 random tests each year.
When I went for my government security clearance I had to get a drug test and we were subject to random ones anytime they felt like it. I was working on components for the MX and Peacekeeper missile systems and they wanted to make sure everything all good.
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Offline bolobaby

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What crap reporting. Like worse than crap. Garbage. Laughable. Take their interwebs permissions away.

Let's just put aside the stupid all caps, bullcrap emotional reaction lie, and superfluous exclamation points.

We'll put that aside to get to substance.

They can't decide whether it was a "rule" or a "law" or a "policy" that was "repealed" or "reversed."

Whatever the actual outcome, posting links from these idiots should now be forbidden.
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What crap reporting. Like worse than crap. Garbage. Laughable. Take their interwebs permissions away.

Let's just put aside the stupid all caps, bullcrap emotional reaction lie, and superfluous exclamation points.

We'll put that aside to get to substance.

They can't decide whether it was a "rule" or a "law" or a "policy" that was "repealed" or "reversed."

Whatever the actual outcome, posting links from these idiots should now be forbidden.

Not surprising, considering the click bait nature of the headline.  "Obama's Reportedly FURIOUS?"  Really?  As expected, there's no reference to any reaction from Obama in the story.  I wish a rule could be created as you describe, but it seems like hysterical headlines are the new normal in the internet age.

A substantial degradation of quality, if you ask me.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline libertybele

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How, exactly, are you managing to equate "all knowing" with "all controlling"?  Just because He knows what will happen does NOT mean that he is controlling what will happen.  Time is, after all, a concept that only we are constrained by.  God knows no such constraints in my belief.

This life is a test.  You either do your best to pass it or you blow the test off.  Your choice.   :laugh:

Thanks (sincerely) I've been struggling with the concept of free will for quite some time.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Suppressed

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@Suppressed When I drove a school bus I had to do a pre-employment drug test. We had a scheduled drug test and could have up to 3 random tests each year.
When I went for my government security clearance I had to get a drug test and we were subject to random ones anytime they felt like it. I was working on components for the MX and Peacekeeper missile systems and they wanted to make sure everything all good.

@verga

But why?

I understand for positions where one could be blackmailed, or has liability for motor vehicle operations.  But otherwise, what is the reason for testing in a corporate environment?  Liability? Public relations?
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@verga

But why?

I understand for positions where one could be blackmailed, or has liability for motor vehicle operations.  But otherwise, what is the reason for testing in a corporate environment?  Liability? Public relations?

I mentioned upthread that it's often for Public Relations, and companies that do it for that reason deserve to lose big bucks paying for the testing (it's not cheap).
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Smokin Joe

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@verga

But why?

I understand for positions where one could be blackmailed, or has liability for motor vehicle operations.  But otherwise, what is the reason for testing in a corporate environment?  Liability? Public relations?
Just about any job where what you do can get someone (including yourself) killed or make a big mess will require pre-employment and random drug tests.
It was that way in the oil patch, whether or not you were the one running the drilling rig, you had to pass the test to even be on location.

Now, although a host of safety programs were involved, too, companies which drug tested had fewer lost time and fatal accidents, and even with new hands in a boom, safety records were considerably improved over the days when no one was drug tested.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Jazzhead

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Just about any job where what you do can get someone (including yourself) killed or make a big mess will require pre-employment and random drug tests.
It was that way in the oil patch, whether or not you were the one running the drilling rig, you had to pass the test to even be on location.

Now, although a host of safety programs were involved, too, companies which drug tested had fewer lost time and fatal accidents, and even with new hands in a boom, safety records were considerably improved over the days when no one was drug tested.

No one disagrees that intoxication on the job should not and cannot be tolerated.   But the issue of drug testing, as a practical matter, impacts whether an employee - who may capably and soberly perform the tasks of his job every day - can enjoy a drink or a toke while off-duty in the privacy of his home.  Yes, I understand that an employer has the right,  but it seems wrong somehow that an employer can fire an employee for harmless activity on the weekends.     
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Offline Smokin Joe

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No one disagrees that intoxication on the job should not and cannot be tolerated.   But the issue of drug testing, as a practical matter, impacts whether an employee - who may capably and soberly perform the tasks of his job every day - can enjoy a drink or a toke while off-duty in the privacy of his home.  Yes, I understand that an employer has the right,  but it seems wrong somehow that an employer can fire an employee for harmless activity on the weekends.     
It is a condition of employment. If you don't like it, don't work there.

If you still have enough alcohol in your system when you go to work to violate those conditions, you are a menace in those work environments. For CDL drivers and airline pilots, for example, that level is a fraction of the DUI level. While no one has yet succeeded in quantifying what levels of cannabanoids present indicate residual impairment, most of the companies I have worked for have zero tolerance simply because that is an easy standard to measure, and cannabis is illegal in those states anyway.
If you can't exercise self-restraint and good judgement in that part of your personal life, what is there to make an employer believe that you will exercise self-restraint or good judgement on their behalf? Add to that the incredible liability aspects of some jobs, and the employer places expectations on an employee as a condition of continued employment.
Would you want someone under the influence (even residually), flying the plane, driving the bus, running the oil rig, on the throttle of the commuter train, operating the nuclear power plant, just to name a few?

There are plenty of jobs which won't get anyone hurt, create an environmental disaster, or wreck expensive equipment you can do, where the employer doesn't test their employees.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Jazzhead

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It is a condition of employment. If you don't like it, don't work there.

If you still have enough alcohol in your system when you go to work to violate those conditions, you are a menace in those work environments. For CDL drivers and airline pilots, for example, that level is a fraction of the DUI level. While no one has yet succeeded in quantifying what levels of cannabanoids present indicate residual impairment, most of the companies I have worked for have zero tolerance simply because that is an easy standard to measure, and cannabis is illegal in those states anyway.
If you can't exercise self-restraint and good judgement in that part of your personal life, what is there to make an employer believe that you will exercise self-restraint or good judgement on their behalf? Add to that the incredible liability aspects of some jobs, and the employer places expectations on an employee as a condition of continued employment.
Would you want someone under the influence (even residually), flying the plane, driving the bus, running the oil rig, on the throttle of the commuter train, operating the nuclear power plant, just to name a few?

There are plenty of jobs which won't get anyone hurt, create an environmental disaster, or wreck expensive equipment you can do, where the employer doesn't test their employees.

You make me chuckle, because you're always up in arms about the government taking away any of your precious "freedom".   Yet you excuse an employer sacking employees for a drink or a toke while on their own time on the weekend.   I understand that an employer has the right to set the rules,  but you seem so docile about employers impinging on private lives with "no tolerance" policies because they're "easier" for the employer. 

Man or mouse?   Smokin' Joe, you're one of the mice.   
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 02:02:28 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline verga

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You make me chuckle, because you're always up in arms about the government taking away any of your precious "freedom".   Yet you excuse an employer sacking employees for a drink or a toke while on their own time on the weekend.   I understand that an employer has the right to set the rules,  but you seem so docile about employers impinging on private lives with "no tolerance" policies because they're "easier" for the employer. 

Man or mouse?   Smokin' Joe, you're one of the mice.
@Jazzhead No one is stopping anyone for  engaging in an activity on their own time, but if it is in your system when you are working it will affect your performance and possibly make you a hazard to someone else, yourself, or a piece of equipment. By setting a zero tolerance policy you do not have to working about making a judgement and setting yourself up for a law suit. You also will never have to justify in a court of law why you let someone work while under the influence if they injure or kill someone.
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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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I see a difference between testing for "genetics" and testing for marijuana:

You cannot help what genetics you have but you can make a choice not to smoke marijuana.

Offline Jazzhead

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I see a difference between testing for "genetics" and testing for marijuana:

You cannot help what genetics you have but you can make a choice not to smoke marijuana.

Testing for "genetics" (actually, nothing more than filling out a health risk assessment that includes questions on family medical history)  is entirely voluntary.   Drug testing that doesn't test for impairment on the job, but merely past use,  is mandatory for many employees.   That's a huge difference in intrusiveness and potential consequences.   So why the docility?    Why should one be able to be fired for the harmless way one chooses to relax on the weekend?       
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 03:22:26 pm by Jazzhead »
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Testing for "genetics" (actually, nothing more than filling out a health risk assessment that includes questions on family medical history)  is entirely voluntary.   Drug testing that doesn't test for impairment on the job, but merely past use,  is mandatory for many employees.   That's a huge difference in intrusiveness and potential consequences.   So why the docility?    Why should one be able to be fired for the harmless way one chooses to relax on the weekend?     

You cannot control your family or their behavior. We all know that "voluntary" when it comes to employers is anything but. A health questionnaire is fine, but asking questions about your family history is not. And by leaving them blank, the employer will assume you have something to hide.

But you can control smoking MJ on the weekends. The way I look at it is this: if you are really that into smoking pot do you really want to work for a company that cares that much about it?

Offline Jazzhead

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You cannot control your family or their behavior. We all know that "voluntary" when it comes to employers is anything but. A health questionnaire is fine, but asking questions about your family history is not. And by leaving them blank, the employer will assume you have something to hide.

That's not how it works.   Completion of a health risk assessment earns a reward under the employer's health care plan.   That makes the HRA subject to the rules regarding medical privacy.   Don't be concerned - the employer doesn't know the results of any employee's HRA.   Just whether or not the employee completed one and earned the reward. 

Quote
  But you can control smoking MJ on the weekends. The way I look at it is this: if you are really that into smoking pot do you really want to work for a company that cares that much about it?

It seems to me that our liberty means little if we cannot be ourselves on our own time, so long as we're not harming others.   We zealously oppose intrusions on that liberty by the government,  and act like docile mice when liberty is denied by our employers.   Perhaps there's nothing that can be done about it - employers hold all the cards,  and can impose rules on our off-hours behavior whether rational or not.   But it puts the lie to our "love of liberty" to just shrug, bend over and take it.       
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 05:06:33 pm by Jazzhead »
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide