An Artificial Magnetic Shield Could Make Mars Habitable (Again)

[DB]

That calculation only works if you assume the power in the field lasts for only one second.

I think the point was that earth's magnetic field is similar to a battery as in a charge. Once the field is up it doesn't take nearly as much energy to maintain it. So the 1E26 ergs was the total energy to collapse it whether done in a second or a year.

[DB]

That's right! I'm just not used to seeing power as watt-years.

Sorry I didn't see your response before replying...

[geronl]

Mars is smaller and much farther from the solar radiation source. It's magnetic field would not need to be as powerful as Earths

[Cripplecreek]

Mars is smaller and much farther from the solar radiation source. It's magnetic field would not need to be as powerful as Earths

Earth's magnetic field is very weak. People have a misconception that its a strong magnetic field but the average refrigerator magnet is some 30,000 times stronger.

The real issue is how to make a large enough magnetic field and correctly orient it so mars rests in its magnetic shadow.

[DB]

Earth's magnetic field is very weak. People have a misconception that its a strong magnetic field but the average refrigerator magnet is some 30,000 times stronger.

The real issue is how to make a large enough magnetic field and correctly orient it so mars rests in its magnetic shadow.

Gotta disagree with you here. Magnetic strength is defined by intensity (lines of force) over a given area. The refrigerator magnetic field covers a tiny focused area verses the earth's huge area. A comparison would be to shine a laser light on the ground in day light and then say the laser was stronger because it is brighter - not even close.

[DB]

Mars is smaller and much farther from the solar radiation source. It's magnetic field would not need to be as powerful as Earths

I'm just guessing here, but it would seem that the size difference may not matter that much. It takes a large enough magnetic field to divert the solar winds/cosmic rays around the object meaning it takes a lot of depth to get the winds to bend around what their going toward. For example if you put a baseball out in space and put a little magnet in it, I doubt it would do any meaningful diverting of cosmic rays, etc at all. It takes a lot of distance for those magnetic fields to be bend the trajectory of what you trying to be shielded from.

[DB]

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If true this sounds like a game changer regarding Mars:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4343142/Human-trials-age-reversing-pill-start-six-months.html

Is okay to ping the list above or is that a no-no?

[sneakypete]

I'm just guessing here, but it would seem that the size difference may not matter that much. It takes a large enough magnetic field to divert the solar winds/cosmic rays around the object meaning it takes a lot of depth to get the winds to bend around what their going toward. For example if you put a baseball out in space and put a little magnet in it, I doubt it would do any meaningful diverting of cosmic rays, etc at all. It takes a lot of distance for those magnetic fields to be bend the trajectory of what you trying to be shielded from.

@DB,when you say it takes a lot of "distance to bend the trajectory.....",is that another way of saying "it takes a lot of mass....."?

[DB]

@DB,when you say it takes a lot of "distance to bend the trajectory.....",is that another way of saying "it takes a lot of mass....."?

No. It is that the solar winds have to pass through the magnetic field for long enough to accumulate enough deflection to clear the planet/object. The solar winds have mass and are traveling very fast and want to keep going the same direction. The further out you start deflecting it, the less force it takes.

But... I'm no physicist. Just seems logical.

[DB]

@DB,when you say it takes a lot of "distance to bend the trajectory.....",is that another way of saying "it takes a lot of mass....."?

By the way, if magnetic fields were practical at deflecting at short distances they would just need to have magnetic fields around their living quarters/suits.

[sneakypete]

By the way, if magnetic fields were practical at deflecting at short distances they would just need to have magnetic fields around their living quarters/suits.

@DB

Why couldn't they? After all,it has to be a lot easier to create a magnetic field around a small object than a large object.

[Cripplecreek]

No. It is that the solar winds have to pass through the magnetic field for long enough to accumulate enough deflection to clear the planet/object. The solar winds have mass and are traveling very fast and want to keep going the same direction. The further out you start deflecting it, the less force it takes.

But... I'm no physicist. Just seems logical.

Actually the mass of the solar wind is pretty minimal. The sun loses about 1 earth mass every 150 million years and its losing that mass in all directions.

Part of the problem is the fact that we're talking about a mixture of electromagnetic radiation and charged particles which are 2 different animals. The charged particles are tiny but do carry considerable momentum. They're what knocks pieces out of DNA strands and cause astronauts to see flashes in their eyes. That's why your magnetic field needs time to deflect and it is dangerous and deadly.

At the end of the day we're still talking about potential technologies in the future. If our species survives long enough we'll undoubtedly achieve technological proficiency to build a Faraday cage around mars with enough solar collecting capacity to generate enough electricity to produce a huge magnetic field.

[Elderberry]

@DB

Why couldn't they? After all,it has to be a lot easier to create a magnetic field around a small object than a large object.

"The biological consequences of long term exposure to strong magnetic fields are not well studied, so far as I am aware.  I have one qualitative data point, based on the fact that, putting one’s head into the gap between the pole pieces of a large cyclotron magnet, where the field is of the order of 5x103 Gauss, introduces noticeable electrolytic effects.  Rotating the head provides scintillations in the retina, and an acid taste soon develops in the saliva.  Both of these effects suggest significant interference with the normal body chemistry.  We need hard laboratory data on the biological damage to mammals residing in strong magnetic fields.  The necessary experiments should not be difficult."

As one's body is conductive, whenever there is motion of a body within the magnetic field, a voltage is created within the body.

http://www.minimagnetosphere.rl.ac.uk/downloads/pdfs/15Parker.pdf

[thackney]

@DB

Why couldn't they? After all,it has to be a lot easier to create a magnetic field around a small object than a large object.

But it is a lot harder to sufficiently deflect the radiation over a small amount of distance.  Much more "force" is needed to change the direction of the radiation if the interaction distance is small.

[sneakypete]

The biological consequences of long term exposure to strong magnetic fields are not well studied, so far as I am aware.  I have one qualitative data point, based on the fact that, putting one’s head into the gap between the pole pieces of a large cyclotron magnet, where the field is of the order of 5x103 Gauss, introduces noticeable electrolytic effects.  Rotating the head provides scintillations in the retina, and an acid taste soon develops in the saliva.  Both of these effects suggest significant interference with the normal body chemistry.  We need hard laboratory data on the biological damage to mammals residing in strong magnetic fields.  The necessary experiments should not be difficult.

As one's body is conductive, whenever there is motion of a body within the magnetic field, a voltage is created within the body.

No problem getting test critters. Sanctuary and inner cities in Dim states are full of potential candidates. Since we pay them to breed,we might as well get some use out of them.

[sneakypete]

But it is a lot harder to sufficiently deflect the radiation over a small amount of distance.  Much more "force" is needed to change the direction of the radiation if the interaction distance is small.

@thackney

Ok,that makes sense to me,if that means anything.

[thackney]

@thackney

Ok,that makes sense to me,if that means anything.

I'm not claiming it will take the same energy to protect a planet as it does to protect a small area, but the scaling of the reduction of energy is not going to be linear with the scaling of the reduction of area.

[bigheadfred]

I'm not finding any specifics on this proposal. What is the shape of the object and what are the materials used in its construction? Whether it is a disk  a toroid or a sphere or totally tubular.

Is it inflated or expanded? By its very nature does it become self aware upon inflation? Is it solar powered? Is it rotating?

Do you build a double layered device like a solenoid?

Using superconducting materials seems like a must. Whether rings like in the below illustration or generally dispersed. I think rings or coils. But I don't know cause I don't have the training to know. Just speculating.





Before I forget, does this only take care of solar radiation?  What about GCR-galactic cosmic radiation?

[DB]

Actually the mass of the solar wind is pretty minimal. The sun loses about 1 earth mass every 150 million years and its losing that mass in all directions.

Part of the problem is the fact that we're talking about a mixture of electromagnetic radiation and charged particles which are 2 different animals. The charged particles are tiny but do carry considerable momentum. They're what knocks pieces out of DNA strands and cause astronauts to see flashes in their eyes. That's why your magnetic field needs time to deflect and it is dangerous and deadly.

At the end of the day we're still talking about potential technologies in the future. If our species survives long enough we'll undoubtedly achieve technological proficiency to build a Faraday cage around mars with enough solar collecting capacity to generate enough electricity to produce a huge magnetic field.

I realize the mass is low of the particles, but they're moving pretty darn fast.

[Joe Wooten]

We'll probably be able to do something like this as soon as we finally get fusion power plants, which are just around the corner......