Author Topic: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test  (Read 10850 times)

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Offline 240B

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #75 on: March 11, 2017, 01:47:12 am »
Well, it could be interesting watching all the 'psychotic breaks' (via satellite, of course).
I said it in a sarcastic way but it is a real point. Imagine if Elizabeth Warren got outed as being a White Scandinavian, which she clearly is, after representing herself as a minority Native American. Could she be fired? What about people who represent themselves as Black or Hispanic who are not? Can they be fired? They're also going to find women pretending to be men and men who pretend to be a woman.

This would open up some deep legal issues way outside of any medical concerns. Genetic profiling is as deeply personal and unabridged information about you as it gets.

A Chinese person may find out that they are Korean. A White Supremist may find out that they are Jewish. You can never know what may happen. The information may lead to extortion or possibly blackmail. Who knows?

The results could shatter lives. And all of these issues are well outside of the purview of any employer.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 01:48:24 am by 240B »
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Offline XenaLee

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #76 on: March 11, 2017, 01:47:36 am »

Did she really just say that employers want genetic testing for cloning?

What part of that "What if" (indicating pure speculation vs. certainty) are you and Beavis here incapable of comprehending?  (all of it, obviously)
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Offline XenaLee

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #77 on: March 11, 2017, 01:49:35 am »
So he was a lesbian?    :smokin:

Lol.....trapped in a good-looking man's body?  No comment....hehehe
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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #78 on: March 11, 2017, 01:51:12 am »
Lol.....trapped in a good-looking man's body?  No comment....hehehe

Just as I thought!     :laugh:

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #79 on: March 11, 2017, 02:07:22 am »
Get a room!
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Offline INVAR

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #80 on: March 11, 2017, 03:25:39 am »
Whenever man has the hubris to prance about like you saying he knows the mind of God, it bodes horrifically ill.   

Anyone who actually reads and understands the bible knows the mind of God.

But since you know and understand neither, you are just a pawn of demons.
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Offline INVAR

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #81 on: March 11, 2017, 03:28:06 am »
Wellness programs are perfectly benign.

Until the government begins mandating and pushing them.

Then they become a tool of genocidal maniacs, to the applause of people like you.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline EC

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #82 on: March 11, 2017, 04:06:59 am »
Four pages and no one has yet mentioned the biggest non-privacy related problem with this?

Genetic testing is all very well, but it's fairly useless as a medical predictor for all but a handful of conditions. In 95% of cases, genes are paired, at minimum. Which gene(s) gets expressed is random chance, so saying someone has a genetic predisposition to thalasemia, for example, is about as useful as saying they have a chance to be struck by lightning.

About the only thing genetic testing is good for is a breeding chart.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 04:07:38 am by EC »
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Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #83 on: March 11, 2017, 04:18:57 am »
I've had a lot of genetic issues with my secretary, but the dry cleaners was always able to get them out.

Offline INVAR

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #84 on: March 11, 2017, 04:33:15 am »
I've had a lot of genetic issues with my secretary, but the dry cleaners was always able to get them out.

It's too bad for William Jefferson Clinton that Monica Lewinsky didn't know your Dry Cleaners Frank.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #85 on: March 11, 2017, 04:38:44 am »
It's too bad for William Jefferson Clinton that Monica Lewinsky didn't know your Dry Cleaners Frank.

Everyone thinks the Chinese run the best dry cleaners. Wrong. It's the Koreans.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #86 on: March 11, 2017, 04:40:19 am »
It would appear so. 

The irony is, I know so many employers that really do care about the health of their workforce, and not just to improve the bottom line.
Yadda Yadda yadda. After all the employer has made an investment in training the worker, yadda yadda, and we can't have those people just doing what the hell they want on their OWN time, now, can we?

Do you have any idea how that sounds?

I can understand drug screening--that affects workplace safety, not just employee performance. But if I'm not getting paid, it's MY time, and I'll do with it what I damn well please. Any employer who has a problem with that can kiss my ass.

Employers pay for our time and expertise, not control over every facet of my time. If they want to pay me to piss around on a treadmill, that's one thing. If not, forget it.
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #87 on: March 11, 2017, 04:45:35 am »
What part of that "What if" (indicating pure speculation vs. certainty) are you and Beavis here incapable of comprehending?  (all of it, obviously)
Not so speculative, actually. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_cloning
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Norm Lenhart

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #88 on: March 11, 2017, 07:04:29 am »
It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test


Excerpt.  Read more at link.

I don't do 'wellness programs', home owners assocs or any other social control idiocy. If employers want to force this on employees, I don't work for them. Over the course of my life I turned down some high paying jobs specifically because the employment contract would have resulted in things I deemed unacceptable. I made less money but I look at myself in mirrors without recoiling at my visage.

Offline Quix

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #89 on: March 11, 2017, 11:48:39 am »
Yo @Quix you see this?

YEAH. Thanks.

VERY sobering, imho.

Sigh.
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Offline Quix

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #90 on: March 11, 2017, 11:52:08 am »
Yadda Yadda yadda. After all the employer has made an investment in training the worker, yadda yadda, and we can't have those people just doing what the hell they want on their OWN time, now, can we?

Do you have any idea how that sounds?

I can understand drug screening--that affects workplace safety, not just employee performance. But if I'm not getting paid, it's MY time, and I'll do with it what I damn well please. Any employer who has a problem with that can kiss my ass.

Employers pay for our time and expertise, not control over every facet of my time. If they want to pay me to piss around on a treadmill, that's one thing. If not, forget it.

Of course. And AMEN TO THAT!

However,

It is the oligarchy's plan that we more overtly become OWNED PROPERTY of theirs--at least of the various multi-national corporations--as their serfs and more likely slaves. They think the idea of us having our own free will and doing what we want is inefficient as well as a threat to their tyranny, their power.
Forgive all; In all things Thank God; Love all. Love 1st, most & always... BE CALM & DO THE NEXT LOVING THING.
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QUIX thread for Quix GLOBALISM, UFO ETC topics here:http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php?topic=206517.new#new WILLIAM TOMPKINS Disclosure bk thread: http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,224639.0.html . Calling: To afflict the comfortable & comfort the afflicted[/

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #91 on: March 11, 2017, 02:07:43 pm »
Yadda Yadda yadda. After all the employer has made an investment in training the worker, yadda yadda, and we can't have those people just doing what the hell they want on their OWN time, now, can we?

Do you have any idea how that sounds?

I can understand drug screening--that affects workplace safety, not just employee performance. But if I'm not getting paid, it's MY time, and I'll do with it what I damn well please. Any employer who has a problem with that can kiss my ass.

Employers pay for our time and expertise, not control over every facet of my time. If they want to pay me to piss around on a treadmill, that's one thing. If not, forget it.

Understood!   You like your freedom and you want to be left alone.    We all do -  but don't let that cloud you to the reality that these are voluntary programs.    Sure,  the employer wants its workforce to be healthy - and lots of employees don't mind getting a discount  on their medical insurance in order to get resources to live healthier.   This isn't tyranny,  it's an employer trying to protect a capital asset. 

We all like a good discount    Well, okay, not all - and that's the point.   These are voluntary programs.   They're linked to discounts on medical insurance,  and hence are plans subject to ERISA,  including strict requirements regarding privacy including that the data can't be used to, say,  get someone fired.

Skyrocketing health care costs ultimately mean fewer jobs.  This is a tool that can work.  If you want to play the curmudgeon,  don't fill out an HRA.     
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #92 on: March 11, 2017, 05:25:41 pm »
Of course. And AMEN TO THAT!

However,

It is the oligarchy's plan that we more overtly become OWNED PROPERTY of theirs--at least of the various multi-national corporations--as their serfs and more likely slaves. They think the idea of us having our own free will and doing what we want is inefficient as well as a threat to their tyranny, their power.
They're right, especially the last part.

What they fail to recognize, is that in some unplanned, non-centrally-controlled, muddling way, humankind has succeeded in making advancements in garages and workshops and homegrown labs, without their central planning, in fact advancements that all too often they railed against, refused to fund research into, that only through the unfailing belief, perseverance, and diligence of their creators were made at all. Impediments are placed in the way whenever possible, from zoning laws to other legal barriers, with excuses from maintaining property values to the public safety.
Of course, the members of the oligarchy commonly and promptly will steal those ideas, once proven, and claim them the result of their personal genius (while the money rolls in).
It is no accident that we have gone from a culture which crafted engines and vehicles in their backyard workshop to people who can't turn a wrench, from scratch building airplanes to wishing for that flying car (maybe in another 50 years), from building our own cars to regulations that won't permit such tinkering because they require systems too complex for the average person to work on.  It's called control, be it economic or intellectual, it all boils down to controlling the worker drones like a piece of production equipment, and will end in the workers being discarded like a piece of worn out machinery when they are no longer useful.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #93 on: March 11, 2017, 05:32:42 pm »
Understood!   You like your freedom and you want to be left alone.    We all do -  but don't let that cloud you to the reality that these are voluntary programs.    Sure,  the employer wants its workforce to be healthy - and lots of employees don't mind getting a discount  on their medical insurance in order to get resources to live healthier.   This isn't tyranny,  it's an employer trying to protect a capital asset. 

We all like a good discount    Well, okay, not all - and that's the point.   These are voluntary programs.   They're linked to discounts on medical insurance,  and hence are plans subject to ERISA,  including strict requirements regarding privacy including that the data can't be used to, say,  get someone fired.

Skyrocketing health care costs ultimately mean fewer jobs.  This is a tool that can work.  If you want to play the curmudgeon,  don't fill out an HRA.   
Voluntary? Sure, like the income tax. Like Obamacare. Voluntarily lay down and grovel before your masters or feel the lash!
The difference isn't a discount, it is a penalty for those who will not sell their birthright for a mass of pottage.
Skyrocketing health costs are a result of intrusion into the doctor/patient relationship. This is an even more egregious intrusion. As for data being used to get someone fired, well, there is always a way. Ask anyone from one of those protected groups you know and advocate about that and I'm sure they all have a story about being made unwelcome at (or simply removed from) a job in a way that didn't break any laws.
As for privacy, try again. My social security card clearly says that it is for tax purposes only and not for identification. Really? Data, once collected, will be used. Just say no.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 05:34:16 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline INVAR

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #94 on: March 11, 2017, 05:53:14 pm »
You like your freedom and you want to be left alone.    We all do -  but don't let that cloud you to the reality that these are voluntary programs....This isn't tyranny.....These are voluntary programs...

Our Government and Tyranny Apologist once again showcases his skills at justifying despotism.

You are an idiot if you believe that any program the government touches ever remains 'voluntary'.  Every single time a 'benevolent tax/program/initiative' is enacted, it becomes a permanent mandatory obligation.

The Income Tax was initially voluntary.  Same with SoSec.  In addition to what is always first stated about an eternal government mandate - my SoSec card explicitly states that it cannot be used for identification purposes, and yet you cannot do a thing in this country without one, unless you are an illegal alien.

If Government is involved in ANY capacity - voluntary will always become a mandated obligation and compulsory.

Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline INVAR

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #95 on: March 11, 2017, 06:01:19 pm »
Voluntary? Sure, like the income tax. Like Obamacare. Voluntarily lay down and grovel before your masters or feel the lash!
The difference isn't a discount, it is a penalty for those who will not sell their birthright for a mass of pottage.
Skyrocketing health costs are a result of intrusion into the doctor/patient relationship. This is an even more egregious intrusion. As for data being used to get someone fired, well, there is always a way. Ask anyone from one of those protected groups you know and advocate about that and I'm sure they all have a story about being made unwelcome at (or simply removed from) a job in a way that didn't break any laws.
As for privacy, try again. My social security card clearly says that it is for tax purposes only and not for identification. Really? Data, once collected, will be used. Just say no.

Sadly I did not read replies past the last justification by our resident Leftist the prompted my above.  Nice to know his comments spurned nearly the same thoughts in rebuttal.

As to your advice to 'just say no' to our cherished Leftist, you and I both know his purpose here is to persuade everyone to say 'yes' to government Socialism, central planning and tyranny in the Name of 'fairness' and 'equality'.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #96 on: March 11, 2017, 06:07:35 pm »
Sadly I did not read replies past the last justification by our resident Leftist the prompted my above.  Nice to know his comments spurned nearly the same thoughts in rebuttal.

As to your advice to 'just say no' to our cherished Leftist, you and I both know his purpose here is to persuade everyone to say 'yes' to government Socialism, central planning and tyranny in the Name of 'fairness' and 'equality'.
That has been my observation as well. I am having a hard time thinking of a Liberal or Statist or even "private" program (readily adapted for totalitarianism) the poster has advocated against.
It remains to the rest of us then, to point out the fallacies, the threats to liberty, the potential for abuse, or the clear and present abusive of those viewpoints, the inherent danger in things designed to be seductive and presented as wonders to the masses.
Sure, everyone wants a spaceship ride, but there is that cookbook.

I'd recommend reading Childhood's End (Arthur C Clarke) for those who haven't.
Syfy did the story in a three part series as well.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 06:34:44 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline XenaLee

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #97 on: March 11, 2017, 06:14:05 pm »
Four pages and no one has yet mentioned the biggest non-privacy related problem with this?

Genetic testing is all very well, but it's fairly useless as a medical predictor for all but a handful of conditions. In 95% of cases, genes are paired, at minimum. Which gene(s) gets expressed is random chance, so saying someone has a genetic predisposition to thalasemia, for example, is about as useful as saying they have a chance to be struck by lightning.

About the only thing genetic testing is good for is a breeding chart.

You mean.... like....  for the "mine-shaft gap" scenario?
 
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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #98 on: March 11, 2017, 06:15:01 pm »
That has been my observation as well. I am having a hard time thinking of a Liberal or Statist or even "private" program (readily adapted for totalitarianism) the poster has advocated against.

Everything antithetical and anathema to Biblical morality and Constitutional Liberty, he is vociferously argumentatively for, and against everything tied to biblical morality and Constitutional limits on Government.  Not to mention his Apologetics for Islam and his numerous stated hatreds and attacks on Christianity and the bible - which he has declared 'a myth'.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline XenaLee

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #99 on: March 11, 2017, 06:20:04 pm »
Not so speculative, actually. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_cloning

There is no way in hell that they can state that accurately.

Quote
...but is not in medical practice anywhere in the world, as of January 2017.

In fact, I would bet money that some evil loon/wacko somewhere is trying to clone humans as we speak.  The "evil" demands it (slave labor workforce and army), dontcha know.  Think:  Mengele.
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.