Dow Chemical nears completion of Freeport expansion

[Victoria33]

I worked as a petroleum engineer for 41 years with several oil companies including Texaco, Exxon and Oxy all along the Gulf Coast, the East Coast, West Coast and Europe.  My business caused me to travel extensively in the Middle East, Far East, Australia and Africa.  We are glad to be finally able to retire here in Texas where we grew up.  My dad was a meteorologist when we lived in La Marque and working at the Galveston airport when Carla hit in '61.

@IsailedawayfromFR

My husband also lived in La Marque when Carla hit.  He didn't leave, stayed home to protect the house.

[Elderberry]

@IsailedawayfromFR

My husband also lived in La Marque when Carla hit.  He didn't leave, stayed home to protect the house.

We rode thru Carla too. Our house was not far from Hobby airport. We only lost a few shingles.

[thackney]

One dam breaking could destroy every oil/gas processing plant on the gulf coast all the way through Texas City. 

That is ridiculous.  I live and work in the area.  What dam do you claim is magically upstream of these different locations.

[thackney]

That is ridiculous.  I live and work in the area.  What dam do you claim is magically upstream of these different locations.

For reference, the map below color-codes the multiple different watersheds from different directions that flow in the greater Houston area.

[catfish1957]

For reference, the map below color-codes the multiple different watersheds from different directions that flow in the greater Houston area.

Since when did the Greater Houston area only include Harris County?  Prob. a Bellaire snob.......

[thackney]

Since when did the Greater Houston area only include Harris County?  Prob. a Bellaire snob.......

Yep, if you include all of the greater Houston area, you get even more separate watersheds.

But this was the clearest map I quickly found, lots of pretty colors...

[catfish1957]

Yep, if you include all of the greater Houston area, you get even more separate watersheds.

But this was the clearest map I quickly found, lots of pretty colors...

Said in jest of course.

[thackney]

Said in jest of course.

Understood.  I actually had the same frustration myself, but it was the best I found showing the waters that flow in the multiple directions for the county, let along the whole gulf coast.

And it certainly shows why Houston is nicknamed "Bayou City".

[Elderberry]

That is ridiculous.  I live and work in the area.  What dam do you claim is magically upstream of these different locations.

The only dams that I could think of that would cause problems would be the Addicks and Barker Dams. But the danger is not to the refineries. It is to Houston.

http://www.houstonpress.com/news/if-the-addicks-and-barker-dams-fail-6594886

[IsailedawayfromFR]

The only dams that I could think of that would cause problems would be the Addicks and Barker Dams. But the danger is not to the refineries. It is to Houston.

http://www.houstonpress.com/news/if-the-addicks-and-barker-dams-fail-6594886

From article:

Local environmental attorney James Blackburn, who is representing the plaintiffs in the civil suit — currently in the appeals process after a district court sided with the Corps — says that if the dams broke, folks would have to deal with a lot more than soiled couches and temporary power outages.

"It could dwarf New Orleans and Katrina," says Blackburn

the guy is a complete idiot.

Total maximum capacity of the Addicks and Barker Reservoirs is 410,000 acre-feet.

The average capacity of Lake Pontchartrain, which flowed into New Orleans during Katrina, is 356 million acre feet.  Many order of magnitude more damaging to New Orleans than Houston could possibly get.

[Elderberry]

The article was in the Houston Press. I wouldn't discount it entirely, but I would say it is highly over-sensationalized.

[Elderberry]

I just posted the first article I found on the Addicks and Barker Reservoirs. By all means please post another one more to your liking. I was just trying to identify which dams could present a danger to the area.

[thackney]

I just posted the first article I found on the Addicks and Barker Reservoirs. By all means please post another one more to your liking. I was just trying to identify which dams could present a danger to the area.

For those not familiar with these, the map below gives a location and relative sizes of the Reservoirs.  Note that they only hold significant water occasionally.



http://www.swg.usace.army.mil/Missions/Dam-Safety-Program/

These are not tall dams.

[GrouchoTex]

For those not familiar with these, the map below gives a location and relative sizes of the Reservoirs.  Note that they only hold significant water occasionally.



http://www.swg.usace.army.mil/Missions/Dam-Safety-Program/

These are not tall dams.

I drive FM 1464 ( Barker Cypress, on the other side, if it went through), to Westheimer parkway, right through the heart of southern end of this stuff, every day.
It was closed off after the infamous "tax day" floods last year (Which @thackney became quite familiar with).

Usually, it is open and there's definitely not enough water there to flood the city.

[Elderberry]

Richard Long, the dams’ manager, offers this scenario: “Because of our flat terrain here, we don’t have a valley that the flood would go down. It’ll spread out over a very large area. It won’t be like the horror movies you see where a wall of water is coming down a canyon. It would be very rapidly rising water and cause an extremely large amount of damage and possibly a loss of life.”     

The Army Corps estimates that a dam failure could cause flooding from Buffalo Bayou and Downtown all the way over to Brays Bayou and the Medical Center. For years, the Army Corp has been monitoring “seepage” of water underneath the dam gates. Those leaks led to the Corps designating the Addicks and Barker dams “extremely high risk” and among the six most critically in need of repair in the nation.

https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/2016/03/07/139872/texas-has-thousands-of-bad-dams-two-in-houston-deemed-extremely-high-risk/

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Richard Long, the dams’ manager, offers this scenario: “Because of our flat terrain here, we don’t have a valley that the flood would go down. It’ll spread out over a very large area. It won’t be like the horror movies you see where a wall of water is coming down a canyon. It would be very rapidly rising water and cause an extremely large amount of damage and possibly a loss of life.”     

The Army Corps estimates that a dam failure could cause flooding from Buffalo Bayou and Downtown all the way over to Brays Bayou and the Medical Center. For years, the Army Corp has been monitoring “seepage” of water underneath the dam gates. Those leaks led to the Corps designating the Addicks and Barker dams “extremely high risk” and among the six most critically in need of repair in the nation.

https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/2016/03/07/139872/texas-has-thousands-of-bad-dams-two-in-houston-deemed-extremely-high-risk/

Am wondering whether the corps offered the same critical inspections of the levees in New Orleans that failed.

[Bigun]

Am wondering whether the corps offered the same critical inspections of the levees in New Orleans that failed.

The levees around New Orleans due to POLITICS and for no other reason.  Their engineering faults were well documented before and during their construction and were not corrected due to the POLITICS of getting the money properly directed for the purpose.

http://www.alternet.org/story/24871/why_the_levee_broke

[truth_seeker]

Very flat topography, near sea level. With heavy rains, blocked drains, do these waterways ever flood into nearby areas?

Do the waterways near the gulf, ever flood with high tide, heavy rains, blocked drains?

Do the walls of the waterways ever break, and flood nearby areas?

[IsailedawayfromFR]

The levees around New Orleans due to POLITICS and for no other reason.  Their engineering faults were well documented before and during their construction and were not corrected due to the POLITICS of getting the money properly directed for the purpose.

http://www.alternet.org/story/24871/why_the_levee_broke

Reading this, it seems to repeat the tired Pelosi mantra of "It's Bush's fault".

Blaming a war to not shoring up levees?  Ridiculous.

The only politics that did in New Orleans was local.  Those fatcat levee board members given a stipend and a car did not manage anything but their own well-being in the ultimate 'good ole boy' city.

[Elderberry]

Very flat topography, near sea level. With heavy rains, blocked drains, do these waterways ever flood into nearby areas?

Do the waterways near the gulf, ever flood with high tide, heavy rains, blocked drains?

Do the walls of the waterways ever break, and flood nearby areas?

Bayous flood all the time. Heavy rains overwhelm drains and streets and houses flood. Alvin's not far away and it received 42 inches of rain in a 24 hour period, during tropical storm Claudette. It doesn't take that much rain to cause flooding. If it rains hard for an hour, there will be localized street flooding. There are subdivisions that were built on land that was once rice fields. You learn how to navigate during flooding conditions. Spring tides cause street flooding, but not in Houston.

I haven't heard of waterways breaking though.

[Bigun]

Reading this, it seems to repeat the tired Pelosi mantra of "It's Bush's fault".

Blaming a war to not shoring up levees?  Ridiculous.

The only politics that did in New Orleans was local.  Those fatcat levee board members given a stipend and a car did not manage anything but their own well-being in the ultimate 'good ole boy' city.

It is far beyond that.  There are so many seperate little fiefdoms down there the Corp of Engineers couldn't or simply wouldn't deal with them effectively.  The levees that failed, every single one of them, had engineering defects which the contractors reported and the change orders to correct those defects were universally denied.  Those are the FACTS and one can attach whatever reason they like to why what occured occurred.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

It is far beyond that.  There are so many seperate little fiefdoms down there the Corp of Engineers couldn't or simply wouldn't deal with them effectively.  The levees that failed, every single one of them, had engineering defects which the contractors reported and the change orders to correct those defects were universally denied.  Those are the FACTS and one can attach whatever reason they like to why what occured occurred.

I believe we are talking the same.

Problems were reported, problems ignored.

I just do not blame a war in the Middle East for the failure of a levee in New Orleans.

[Bigun]

I believe we are talking the same.

Problems were reported, problems ignored.

I just do not blame a war in the Middle East for the failure of a levee in New Orleans.

I guess so!