The Tyranny of Nice-Nice Culture

[XenaLee]

First of all.... I disagree with that premise.  Not all people fall into that 'either sheep or wolves' category.  I, myself, do not, IMO.  For instance, I enjoy watching both the sheep and the wolves (and point and laugh at times) interact on various forums. 

I am an outsider.  I am the proverbial mountain lion that merely perches and observes, and that has....over the years.... grown weary of the taste of sheep OR of wolves.  I'm a pseudo pacifist (perhaps even a reluctant one....lol) now.... since back in the good ole days (the wild wild west of the internet) I and others like me had great fun sparring and squabbling on forums.  But things change.  Now it's basically...."Don't mess with me and I won't mess with you".  But threaten me or my family, and you will live to wish you had not.  I think that's a reasonable stance. 

[LateForLunch]

I have never seen any "nice-nice culture"

"A man hears what he wants to hear
 and disregards the rest."

You are never rankled when people with slick PR skills posture as if mincing, courtly manners are a great substitute for plain speaking and honesty? Or by people who complain bitterly and put forth castigations and vehement railing when others speak truths simply, solely because they are coarsely articulated? Or by oily-mouthed prevarication deposited with a cheesy smile, or a glad-handed sleeve-job administered by some sneering amoral oaf in a $10,000 suit wearing $500 shoes, carrying a $3000 briefcase driving a $200,000 automobile? Not by some tyrannical elitist swine with hands as soft as a infant who lectures the unwashed masses on the "blessings of hard work"? None of that offends you in the slightest? Not people who believe that they can utter all manner of vile, execrable pompous inhuman Marxist lunacy and that so long as it is phrased with precise grammar, sung in dulcet tones, lain in erudite sentence structure and seasoned with droll aphorisms, it is to be regarded as perfectly acceptable and laudable speech?

Although I admire those with mastery and respect for language and the spoken word, I am also aware that, "There is no greater ugliness than beauty or virtue corrupted".

[XenaLee]

"A man hears what he wants to hear
 and disregards the rest."

You are never rankled when people with slick PR skills posture as if mincing, courtly manners are a great substitute for plain speaking and honesty? Or by people who complain bitterly and put forth castigations and vehement railing when others speak truths simply, solely because they are coarsely articulated? Or by oily-mouthed prevarication deposited with a cheesy smile, or a glad-handed sleeve-job administered by some sneering amoral oaf in a $10,000 suit wearing $500 shoes, carrying a $3000 briefcase driving a $200,000 automobile? Not by some tyrannical elitist swine with hands as soft as a infant who lectures the unwashed masses on the "blessings of hard work"? None of that offends you in the slightest? Not people who believe that they can utter all manner of vile, execrable pompous inhuman Marxist lunacy and that so long as it is phrased with precise grammar, sung in dulcet tones, lain in erudite sentence structure and seasoned with droll aphorisms, it is to be regarded as perfectly acceptable and laudable speech?

Although I admire those with mastery and respect for language and the spoken word, I am also aware that, "There is no greater ugliness than beauty or virtue corrupted".

I'm sure that Lucifer ....and his forum troll minions (mostly lefties, if course...lol) would disagree.

[LateForLunch]

I'm sure that Lucifer ....and his forum troll minions (mostly lefties, if course...lol) would disagree.

hah hah that was very well-phrased Chatelaine (sincere applause).

The ability to portray politeness as a vice rather than a virtue is IMO one of CS Lewis's greatest literary feats - I can't think of any other author who has done that with more mastery or abundant, incisive, surgical evisceration. IMO that accomplishment alone fully and absolutely qualifies his Space Trilogy as one of the greatest works of modern fiction. Anyone who does not loathe every last quality and facet of the N.I.C.E. by the end of That Hideous Strength needs a serious moral tune-up. Some of that theme is also explored in the manifestly brilliant Screwtape Letters of course.

[thackney]

"Or by oily-mouthed prevarication deposited with a cheesy smile, or a glad-handed sleeve-job administered by some sneering amoral oaf in a $10,000 suit wearing $500 shoes, carrying a $3000 briefcase driving a $200,000 automobile?

Why would what they wear or choose to spend money on have any bearing on their words or their impact on you.  Do the words of those wearing hand-me-downs and scraps affect you differently?

[Victoria33]

For me, writing in a public forum, I typically take the stance if I won't say it in front of my Mother-In-Law or minor children, I won't post it.  And if the forum often uses language those two would find offensive or insulting, I am not going to stay a part of it.  Or perhaps I would say I'm not going to be part of something I would find a problem being exposed for a future political office.  I view this as public speaking.  I have far looser standards in private conversation among those I consider close friends.  Both in my own conduct and words, as well as theirs.  Hypocritical?  Maybe.  But that is the line I chose to draw in participation of forums.

@thackney
@mystery-ak
@CatherineofAragon 

Thackney, you are wise to use those guidelines.  I don't wish physical harm to anyone.  I don't engage in word fights as it is useless.  I consider what I write, knowing millions could be reading it as the internet is open to the world to read what is there. This old axiom is true: "The pen is mightier than the sword."

Trump is a wolf without any restraint at all.  His latest is saying if any Republican in congress isn't in support of the new healthcare bill, he will go to their voting district and try to get them defeated at their next election.  He is the worst vindictive person I have ever known about.  This gives license to his supporters to do the same, and they are doing it - attack, attack.

[Sanguine]

I would add to all of this wonderful wisdom, that you don't always have to respond.  Sometimes/frequently some members will post inflammatory posts with the apparent intent of generating negative responses from other members.  I'm not obligated to respond to those, and sometimes the better part of valor is to simply not respond.

Not to be confused with those who drop little tuword bombs and then disappear when challenged or questioned.

[Victoria33]

Interesting topic, thank you @LateForLunch   

Of course, there are "impolite" words I don't consider impolite - shit for example. It's a descriptive word, nothing more. 

@EC

Story about "shit":
My husband told me this story: when he was about three years old, he heard a new word.  He liked the sound of this word and was sitting on the floor repeating this word, he was saying "shit, shit, shit, shit, shit, etc..  His mom came into the room hearing this and had a fit - told him never to say that again.  He didn't know why he shouldn't say it as it was a fine sounding word to him.

[Idaho_Cowboy]

Why would what they wear or choose to spend money on have any bearing on their words or their impact on you.  Do the words of those wearing hand-me-downs and scraps affect you differently?

They usually have better advice, but that's just my experience.

[LateForLunch]

@thackney
@mystery-ak
@CatherineofAragon 

Thackney, you are wise to use those guidelines.  I don't wish physical harm to anyone.  I don't engage in word fights as it is useless.  I consider what I write, knowing millions could be reading it as the internet is open to the world to read what is there. This old axiom is true: "The pen is mightier than the sword."

Trump is a wolf without any restraint at all.  His latest is saying if any Republican in congress isn't in support of the new healthcare bill, he will go to their voting district and try to get them defeated at their next election.  He is the worst vindictive person I have ever known about.  This gives license to his supporters to do the same, and they are doing it - attack, attack.

Well, I do wish physical harm to many and I am not the least bit ashamed of it. One cannot love good without hating the bad. I think it is a myth that "nice" people do not take pleasure in violence or violent thoughts.

I don't buy into the myth that people can be significantly influenced by posts on websites to commit violent felonies or harm innocent people. I would have to see some strong evidence of that ( other than someone's personal opinion) before I would believe it to be true.

In that same vein, the notion that DJT's verbal style or postings somehow promulgate violent or grossly irresponsible behavior is 100% unsupported. Unless one could provide a specific  example of that, I would relegate it to the same status as most other prognostications of how Trump is or will be a bad person or an irresponsible leader. There are abundant examples of how leftist statements and attitudes have fomented the most horrible, lethal violence against innocent people, but as far as I know, only suppositions and morbid predictions in regard to DJT or his followers.

As far as DJT's behavior in regard to putting undue pressure on Congresscritters to pass ACHA, that methodology (strong political pressure aka negative reinforcement) is sometimes appropriate, sometimes not. I would have to take Victoria33s word for it that he is using excessively harsh tactics if I were to believe it and ( forgive me) frankly I'm not. Owing to Victoria33's long-standing intense unabashed enmity toward DJT I cannot really take her at her word that he is behaving as badly as she presents.

[XenaLee]

Well, I do wish physical harm to many and I am not the least bit ashamed of it. One cannot love good without hating the bad. I think it is a myth that "nice" people do not take pleasure in violence or violent thoughts.

I don't buy into the myth that people can be significantly influenced by posts on websites to commit violent felonies or harm innocent people. I would have to see some strong evidence of that ( other than someone personal opinion) before I would believe it to be true.

As far as DJT's behavior in regard to putting pressure on Congresscritters to pass ACHA, I would have to take Victoria33s word for it that he is using harsh tactics. That methodology is sometimes appropriate, sometimes not. I will have to hear more about it before I pass judgment. Owing to the post author's long standing enmity toward DJT I cannot really take her at her word that he is behaving as badly as she presents.

There is perhaps a fine line here.  I'm not a philosophy major/expert, so I couldn't say for sure and this is just my personal opinion.  But I do, in fact, hope that Karma will indeed "come around" for those that have damaged or who seek to damage and/or destroy this great nation.  If that is equated to "wishing harm" on some folks, so be it.  I'll take that hit when the time comes (ie Judgment Day).  I'm good with it.   

[LateForLunch]

@EC

Story about "shit":
My husband told me this story: when he was about three years old, he heard a new word.  He liked the sound of this word and was sitting on the floor repeating this word, he was saying "shit, shit, shit, shit, shit, etc..  His mom came into the room hearing this and had a fit - told him never to say that again.  He didn't know why he shouldn't say it as it was a fine sounding word to him.

The history of S.H.I.T. is fairly amusing. Apparently it is an acronym. Years ago (1800s?), ships transporting manure fertilizer would pack the pallets into lower holds and owing to chemistry, the methane fumes given off by the manure would build up below decks and sometimes ignite, causing a fire or explosion. This was intolerable so the workers who loaded the cargo would be instructed to store the manure above decks or in a place where ventilation would evacuate the fumes IOW the upper decks. So the acronym was born because the loaders would place written notes on the manure instructing that it be "Shipped High In Transit"  S.H.I.T.

[LateForLunch]

I would add to all of this wonderful wisdom, that you don't always have to respond.  Sometimes/frequently some members will post inflammatory posts with the apparent intent of generating negative responses from other members.  I'm not obligated to respond to those, and sometimes the better part of valor is to simply not respond.

Not to be confused with those who drop little tuword bombs and then disappear when challenged or questioned.

[Smokin Joe]

@EC

Story about "shit":
My husband told me this story: when he was about three years old, he heard a new word.  He liked the sound of this word and was sitting on the floor repeating this word, he was saying "shit, shit, shit, shit, shit, etc..  His mom came into the room hearing this and had a fit - told him never to say that again.  He didn't know why he shouldn't say it as it was a fine sounding word to him.

I had a different experience on learning the 'f' word from my friend. We were gradeschoolers riding in the back seat with my brother, and my parents and his mom were sitting in the front seat of that old Ford. When he told me it was the trump card of cusswords, well, I didn't believe him. So I tried it out.

In retrospect, there was a little stiffening of shoulders up front, and the slow pivoting of heads as the adults silently looked at each other, but no repercussions.

I sang the word, as kids do, for a few miles, likely to the great consternation of my parents and his mom, but in the end decided that the absolute lack of reaction rendered the rumor false (otherwise, Dad would have stopped the car, or the Hand of Discipline would have snaked over the back of the seat seeking me). I forgot all about it for a few years after that...

[Smokin Joe]

Why would what they wear or choose to spend money on have any bearing on their words or their impact on you.  Do the words of those wearing hand-me-downs and scraps affect you differently?

Someone with a $10,000 suit and $200,000 car might view as a relatively minor inconvenience what would be economic devastation for folks who would have spent the 10K on a car and the other on a house. It is a question of degree, but also one of frugality.
A 2-3K suit and a 70K car would have sufficed in my circles, if not have been a trifle ostentatious.
As for slick talkers in slick suits, when I was trying to start with investments, and the person heard I only had low 4 figures to work with at the time (making a comeback off an oil bust), they sneered on the phone and said 'call me back when you have at least 50K' and hung up.
I thought 'I'll never call you, you sorry SOB. We all have to start somewhere, but it won't be with you or your firm'.
In '99 the same puke called me back and said he thought it was a great time to invest in tech stocks. I told him that wasn't what my research showed, but thanks for the offer and hung up the phone. Twp weeks later the 'dot bomb' hit. 
It''s real simple. If people are dressing like they sit at the no limit table, one of us is in the wrong game.

[Smokin Joe]

The history of S.H.I.T. is fairly amusing. Apparently it is an acronym. Years ago (1800s?), ships transporting manure fertilizer would pack the pallets into lower holds and owing to chemistry, the methane fumes given off by the manure would build up below decks and sometimes ignite, causing a fire or explosion. This was intolerable so the workers who loaded the cargo would be instructed to store the manure above decks or in a place where ventilation would evacuate the fumes IOW the upper decks. So the acronym was born because the loaders would place written notes on the manure instructing that it be "Shipped High In Transit"  S.H.I.T.

Then there is this:

SPECIAL HIGH INTENSITY TRAINING MEMO

In order to assure the highest levels of quality work and productivity from our employees, it will be our policy to keep all employees well trained through our program of Special High Intensity Training (SHIT).
We are trying to give employees more SHIT than anyone else.

If you don't feel that you are receiving your share of SHIT on the job, please see your manager immediately. You will be put at the top of the SHIT list ASAP, and our manager is especially skilled at seeing that you take all the SHIT that you can handle. Since our manager has take SHIT before he was promoted, he does not have to take SHIT anymore, and is full of SHIT already.

Employees who don't take any SHIT will be placed in a Departmental Employee Evaluation Program (DEEPSHIT). Those who fail to take DEEPSHIT seriously will have to go to Employee Attitude Training (EATSHIT).

If you are full of SHIT, you may be interested in a job training others. We can add your name to our Basic Understanding Lecture List (BULLSHIT). Those who are full of BULLSHIT will get the SHIT jobs and can apply for a promotion to Director of Intensity Programming (DIPSHIT).

If you have any further questions, please direct them to our Head of Training (HOTSHIT).

Thank you,

Boss In General (BIGSHIT)

which has circulated in companies I have worked in/with since I have been in the oil patch, in one form or another.

I won't go into the Field Unit Cleaning Kit requests…

[XenaLee]

The history of S.H.I.T. is fairly amusing. Apparently it is an acronym. Years ago (1800s?), ships transporting manure fertilizer would pack the pallets into lower holds and owing to chemistry, the methane fumes given off by the manure would build up below decks and sometimes ignite, causing a fire or explosion. This was intolerable so the workers who loaded the cargo would be instructed to store the manure above decks or in a place where ventilation would evacuate the fumes IOW the upper decks. So the acronym was born because the loaders would place written notes on the manure instructing that it be "Shipped High In Transit"  S.H.I.T.

Wow.... now that is a fascinating bit of history and information (learn something new every day).

Thanks!

[Wingnut]

The history of S.H.I.T. is fairly amusing. Apparently it is an acronym. Years ago (1800s?), ships transporting manure fertilizer would pack the pallets into lower holds and owing to chemistry, the methane fumes given off by the manure would build up below decks and sometimes ignite, causing a fire or explosion. This was intolerable so the workers who loaded the cargo would be instructed to store the manure above decks or in a place where ventilation would evacuate the fumes IOW the upper decks. So the acronym was born because the loaders would place written notes on the manure instructing that it be "Shipped High In Transit"  S.H.I.T.

interesting story. Probably not true if you think of a probable Germanic beginning for the word. I have no idea how to spell it ... but "Scheisse" has probably been around longer than exploding methane bombs on ships.

But I still give it a thumbs up because I love this sort of story.


http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/shit.asp

[Smokin Joe]

interesting story. Probably not true if you think of a probable Germanic beginning for the word. I have no idea how to spell it ... but "Scheisse" has probably been around longer than exploding methane bombs on ships.

But I still give it a thumbs up because I love this sort of story.


http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/shit.asp

I think it is kinda funny watching people disagree about the origin of sh*t. 

[LateForLunch]

I think it is kinda funny watching people disagree about the origin of sh*t. 

Times when sighing is appropriate:



heh heh to be honest, some of the best posts are often the ones that are off topic. That never seems to change from forum to forum. For example some of the ones on this thread are awesome!!

[thackney]

I think one thing to consider is an open forum is closest to a group of acquaintances riding the same city bus, with plenty of other people coming and going near by.  It is not like a group of close friends in my living room.

How I speak to people in the former setting is quite different to the latter.

[Wingnut]

I think one thing to consider is an open forum is closest to a group of acquaintances riding the same city bus, with plenty of other people coming and going near by.  It is not like a group of close friends in my living room.

How I speak to people in the former setting is quite different to the latter.

Amen Brother!  Oh and put a coaster under your GD drink.  Thats a new table you jerk.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Most people prone to arguing on the internet have a form of OCD IMO.

[Doug Loss]

interesting story. Probably not true if you think of a probable Germanic beginning for the word. I have no idea how to spell it ... but "Scheisse" has probably been around longer than exploding methane bombs on ships.

But I still give it a thumbs up because I love this sort of story.


http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/shit.asp

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=shit

[Wingnut]

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=shit

That's some shit right there.