Author Topic: NASA thinks there might be aliens on Jupiter’s moon (Europa)  (Read 6760 times)

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Online bigheadfred

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Re: NASA thinks there might be aliens on Jupiter’s moon (Europa)
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2017, 10:59:03 pm »
It should be a matter of using both the most efficiently.  There is no way we would have obtained the data we have about the planets, particularly the outer planets, if we waited until we had the capability to send people out there.

And, quite honestly, robots should be sent in first to check things out.  If nothing else, losing a first-time expedition is a lot cheaper if it involves just a robot and not people.

I'm not saying I don't want people out there - I definitely do - but I think it's better to lead with a machine.

So you are talking a Mars lander type of thing?

Europa's chaos terrain is going to make that a challenge.
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: NASA thinks there might be aliens on Jupiter’s moon (Europa)
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2017, 11:00:41 pm »
Ever check out how much methane is on Titan?


Al Gore should be scared.


Funny thing about the Progressives, they are the most anti space crowd that I have even seen.
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Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: NASA thinks there might be aliens on Jupiter’s moon (Europa)
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2017, 11:01:08 pm »
It should be a matter of using both the most efficiently.  There is no way we would have obtained the data we have about the planets, particularly the outer planets, if we waited until we had the capability to send people out there.

And, quite honestly, robots should be sent in first to check things out.  If nothing else, losing a first-time expedition is a lot cheaper if it involves just a robot and not people.

I'm not saying I don't want people out there - I definitely do - but I think it's better to lead with a machine.

There are a lot of places you won't want to send people even if you're in orbit. Those are the situations where you could operate a robot in real time from orbit or a safe base on the surface. The biggest problem we have with bots now is the fact that they can't make decisions and there's a considerable time lag for anything further away than the moon (which is around 1.5 seconds 1 way)

Oceander

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Re: NASA thinks there might be aliens on Jupiter’s moon (Europa)
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2017, 11:01:16 pm »
So you are talking a Mars lander type of thing?

Europa's chaos terrain is going to make that a challenge.

The Mars lander was designed to land on Mars, so a mission to Europa should be designed to land on Europa, not Mars.  But saying Europa is not Mars does not mean that a mission to Europa should be less robust than the Mars lander.

Oceander

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Re: NASA thinks there might be aliens on Jupiter’s moon (Europa)
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2017, 11:06:48 pm »
There are a lot of places you won't want to send people even if you're in orbit. Those are the situations where you could operate a robot in real time from orbit or a safe base on the surface. The biggest problem we have with bots now is the fact that they can't make decisions and there's a considerable time lag for anything further away than the moon (which is around 1.5 seconds 1 way)

The lack of AI on robotic space missions most likely has to do with both the necessity of having hardened hardware (cosmic rays would shred a normal terrestrial CPU in minutes) and software that is rock-solid infallible - I recall that one mission crashed and burned because someone failed to properly differentiate between feet/sec and meters/sec.

That would be one area of potential R&D - bringing space hardware/software into the 21st Century and getting current AI capabilities onboard.

Offline Quix

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Re: NASA thinks there might be aliens on Jupiter’s moon (Europa)
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2017, 11:06:55 pm »

True..  We do need a way to send humans fast from point a to point b in our solar system before we go Interstellar.  Also work on Artificial Gravity and Radiation protection.
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So you don't believe the retiring head of Lockheed Skunk Works' Ben Rich when he said we have the means to take ET home, now? He wasn't really joking.
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Re: NASA thinks there might be aliens on Jupiter’s moon (Europa)
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2017, 11:08:20 pm »
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So you don't believe the retiring head of Lockheed Skunk Works' Ben Rich when he said we have the means to take ET home, now? He wasn't really joking.
.


No, I don't believe him if that's what he said.

Offline Quix

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Re: NASA thinks there might be aliens on Jupiter’s moon (Europa)
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2017, 11:08:43 pm »
I think it belongs here.. I think there are some critters in Europa..

Fine with me.

I always enjoy your posts/threads. Thanks.
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Offline Quix

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Re: NASA thinks there might be aliens on Jupiter’s moon (Europa)
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2017, 11:09:39 pm »
No, I don't believe him if that's what he said.

Then you MUST think that you know more about such technologies and advancements than he did. He was probably one of a relatively small group that knew more than our Presidents about such things.

THAT seems rather irrational, to me.

BTW, IIRC, there's a video of him saying it. Certainly there are transcripts.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 11:16:56 pm by Quix »
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Online bigheadfred

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Re: NASA thinks there might be aliens on Jupiter’s moon (Europa)
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2017, 11:11:19 pm »

NASA Report on Europa Lander

by Paul Gilster on February 13, 2017


http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=37129
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Online bigheadfred

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Re: NASA thinks there might be aliens on Jupiter’s moon (Europa)
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2017, 11:12:59 pm »
Then you MUST think that you know more about such technologies and advancements than he did.

THAT seems rather irrational, to me.

BTW, IIRC, there's a video of him saying it. Certainly there are transcripts.

That tech isn't for us @Quix. That tech is for more important things. Like killing people.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Quix

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Re: NASA thinks there might be aliens on Jupiter’s moon (Europa)
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2017, 11:15:41 pm »
That tech isn't for us @Quix. That tech is for more important things. Like killing people.

INDEED . . .

FOR:

--killing people
--advancing and protecting their tyrannical power monopolies
--advancing and protecting their astronomical wealth
--giving them extremely exotic toys to play with

etc. etc.
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Oceander

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Re: NASA thinks there might be aliens on Jupiter’s moon (Europa)
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2017, 11:20:29 pm »
Then you MUST think that you know more about such technologies and advancements than he did.

THAT seems rather irrational, to me.

BTW, IIRC, there's a video of him saying it. Certainly there are transcripts.


No.  I simply know that extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof, and I know that our most sophisticated launch technology is essentially the same the Chinese used in the 13th Century: stuff a lot of really fast-burning stuff into a tube and hope it doesn't overpressure the tube and blow it up.

Certainly we could send ET home using that - provided ET didn't mind waiting at least 40,000 years before he got home.

Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: NASA thinks there might be aliens on Jupiter’s moon (Europa)
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2017, 11:28:02 pm »
No.  I simply know that extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof, and I know that our most sophisticated launch technology is essentially the same the Chinese used in the 13th Century: stuff a lot of really fast-burning stuff into a tube and hope it doesn't overpressure the tube and blow it up.

Certainly we could send ET home using that - provided ET didn't mind waiting at least 40,000 years before he got home.

Yup, the tyranny of rockets.

We could go get voyager and bring it hhome if we wanted to. It would just take a fleet of Saturn Vs to get there, another fleet of Saturn Vs to stop when we got there, A fleet of Saturn Vs to come back to earth, and a fleet of Saturn Vs to stop when we got back to earth.

https://what-if.xkcd.com/38/

Offline Quix

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Re: NASA thinks there might be aliens on Jupiter’s moon (Europa)
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2017, 11:34:55 pm »
No.  I simply know that extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof, and I know that our most sophisticated launch technology is essentially the same the Chinese used in the 13th Century: stuff a lot of really fast-burning stuff into a tube and hope it doesn't overpressure the tube and blow it up.

Certainly we could send ET home using that - provided ET didn't mind waiting at least 40,000 years before he got home.
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Ahhhhh . . . and you KNOW such things how?
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Evidently you do not believe such 'leakers' as William Tompkins who worked in the field for 5-6 decades. His documented work record fits his narrative.
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Evidently you do not believe folks who talk about our super black/secret Naval space fleet.
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Shoot, even my close relative saw some of our UFO type craft on an almost daily basis when he worked at S-4.
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Sorry but I get weary of the "Extra-ordinary claims require extra-ordinary evidence." bit.
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1. Given the ultra secret nature of such projects . . . just where is this extra-ordinary evidence going to come from?
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2. For many decades (60+ in terms of UFO tech), such 'extra-ordinary evidence' is likely to be intensely protected, kept dark, secret. Anything that comes out will be amidst plenty of disinformation, misinformation and deceptions of various kinds. There's little way around that. Folks who have tried to break through that have ended up dead in case after case . . . and sometimes, their families, too.
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3. That old Carl Sagan farcical statement is merely an addiction to a false negative error--pretending that they are not setting themselves up for an automatic smack up-side the head accordingly.
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4. Sagan was a liar. He was in the government employ working with the facts of UFO's and ET's etc. etc. etc. He was a paid shill and debunker. And he wasn't that good at it. He merely had lots of media support so he seemed to be sane because it was the propagandized narrative for decades. All the time he was secretly in the know and a hired goon in helping maintain the cover-up.
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5. I don't think there is a fool proof way to wade through all the disinformation; false negative error risk on one side and false positive error risk on the other. but it is more or less doable.
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6. There's tons of high quality information from high quality sources to sift through. Denying the quality or the tons of data is not . . . imho . . . a good survival habit.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 11:38:43 pm by Quix »
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Oceander

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Re: NASA thinks there might be aliens on Jupiter’s moon (Europa)
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2017, 11:52:22 pm »
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Ahhhhh . . . and you KNOW such things how?
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Evidently you do not believe such 'leakers' as William Tompkins who worked in the field for 5-6 decades. His documented work record fits his narrative.
.
Evidently you do not believe folks who talk about our super black/secret Naval space fleet.
.
Shoot, even my close relative saw some of our UFO type craft on an almost daily basis when he worked at S-4.
.
Sorry but I get weary of the "Extra-ordinary claims require extra-ordinary evidence." bit.
.
1. Given the ultra secret nature of such projects . . . just where is this extra-ordinary evidence going to come from?
.
2. For many decades (60+ in terms of UFO tech), such 'extra-ordinary evidence' is likely to be intensely protected, kept dark, secret. Anything that comes out will be amidst plenty of disinformation, misinformation and deceptions of various kinds. There's little way around that. Folks who have tried to break through that have ended up dead in case after case . . . and sometimes, their families, too.
.
3. That old Carl Sagan farcical statement is merely an addiction to a false negative error--pretending that they are not setting themselves up for an automatic smack up-side the head accordingly.
.
4. Sagan was a liar. He was in the government employ working with the facts of UFO's and ET's etc. etc. etc. He was a paid shill and debunker. And he wasn't that good at it. He merely had lots of media support so he seemed to be sane because it was the propagandized narrative for decades. All the time he was secretly in the know and a hired goon in helping maintain the cover-up.
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5. I don't think there is a fool proof way to wade through all the disinformation; false negative error risk on one side and false positive error risk on the other. but it is more or less doable.
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6. There's tons of high quality information from high quality sources to sift through. Denying the quality or the tons of data is not . . . imho . . . a good survival habit.


How do I know such things?

Are you serious?

That extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof is a simple matter of logic.  Something even a kindergartener can figure out.

That our best launch technology is essentially the same as what the Chinese developed in the 13th Century is self-evident:  you can see it on display every time we launch something.

And how do you know that we have something better?  Have you seen these things first-hand - in person - and do you have the theoretical knowledge necessary to know how they work?  Or are you just taking the unsubstantiated, self-serving words of other people, words that simply happen to confirm your own biases?

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: NASA thinks there might be aliens on Jupiter’s moon (Europa)
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2017, 12:42:49 am »

Funny thing about the Progressives, they are the most anti space crowd that I have even seen.
"Why spend all that money out there when we have problems (that can be looted for fun and profit) right here on Earth?"  I remember that BS going on during the Apollo missions.
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Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: NASA thinks there might be aliens on Jupiter’s moon (Europa)
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2017, 12:44:45 am »
"Why spend all that money out there when we have problems (that can be looted for fun and profit) right here on Earth?"  I remember that BS going on during the Apollo missions.

They think they're going to "solve" human nature.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: NASA thinks there might be aliens on Jupiter’s moon (Europa)
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2017, 12:48:07 am »
They think they're going to "solve" human nature.
That's because they're so perfect. Just ask 'em, they'll tell you all about it. :whistle:
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 12:48:32 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online bigheadfred

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Re: NASA thinks there might be aliens on Jupiter’s moon (Europa)
« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2017, 12:50:32 am »
They think they're going to "solve" human nature.

By making it extinct.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: NASA thinks there might be aliens on Jupiter’s moon (Europa)
« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2017, 12:52:54 am »
The problem with life on Europa is the fact that they're all Europeans.

Offline Quix

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Re: NASA thinks there might be aliens on Jupiter’s moon (Europa)
« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2017, 12:53:05 am »
How do I know such things?

Are you serious?

Absolutely. You seem to have swallowed the propagandizing MSM and government narrative for the last 60 years hook line and sinker with hardly a rational, fair-minded nod even in the direction of the other massive amount of evidence--much of it fairly high quality.


Quote
That extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof is a simple matter of logic.  Something even a kindergartener can figure out.

Ahhhh . . . another cute insult.
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No. au contraire.
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It is a glib, facile, logical SOUNDING seeming truism devoid of some key critical thinking.
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It virtually totally neglects the FACT THAT given a certain level of black project secrecy, such "extra-ordinary evidence" will NOT be forthcoming for a VERY LONG TIME.
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THEREFORE, WHAT are citizens deprived of solid evidence and facts of an extra-ordinary level going to do to determine the truth about black projects? Suck their thumbs? Stick their heads back in the sand or up their rears? Meekly bleat in unison with the government propagandists?
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All the while . . . the oligarchy is making life/death decisions and taking  life/death actions ultimately and even in the present influencing significant numbers of the citizens--often in devastating, even deadly ways.
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And because of the infallible doctrine of Pope Carl Sagan, the citizens can do nothing but bow meekly at the altar of 'extra-ordinary evidence' and shuffle quietly off into the caverns of the Morlachs to their demise.
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How wonderful.
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They must ignore the rooms full of evidence by several hundred military, scientist and government experts and pretend that said testimony is utterly meaningless and of absolutely no value regarding the life and death implications of the realities involved.
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Personally, that does NOT make much rational sense, to me. I don't think it takes studying the topic for more than 50 years to realize that's not very healthy or sensible.
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No, there's no craft in a declassified public laboratory where citizen scientists can examine it and report weekly to the populace unfettered by the secret keepers.
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But there ARE tons of quality data that's quite useful for research and from which some tentative hypotheses can be deduced.
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There's rooms full of quality WITNESS TESTIMONIES by high level witnesses--even key personnel involved with such projects.
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Of course, folks CAN IGNORE said evidence as failing to meet THEIR ridiculously narrow and rigid criteria for "extra-ordinary evidence," if they wish.
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It just LOGICALLY seems to be terminally unwise and lacking in critical thinking robustness, imho.
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Many hundreds of murderers have been convicted and sentenced to execution based on a lot less testimonial evidence.
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But that's OK. Just toss the witness testimonies in the trash based on personal sensibilities.  The great god Carl Sagan has spoken, shill that he was.
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That's not REMOTELY LOGICAL, to me.
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Oh, and Ocham's razor . . . . GIVEN all the testimony . . . his razor is far on the side of something exotic going on = the simplest explanation to match the evidence.
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Quote

That our best launch technology is essentially the same as what the Chinese developed in the 13th Century is self-evident:  you can see it on display every time we launch something.

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Oh, really?
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You KNOW this how?
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That's one of the things that's angered me for a long time. The whole Apollo and Challenger thing . . . needless risk and a waste of a lot of resources as well as personnel--all for a smoke screen, a charade. . . . as some have testified, too.
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And how do you know that we have something better?  Have you seen these things first-hand - in person - and do you have the theoretical knowledge necessary to know how they work?  Or are you just taking the unsubstantiated, self-serving words of other people, words that simply happen to confirm your own biases?

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1. I've studied the topic since 1962. How long have you seriously studied it?
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2. I've talked face to face with the highest level researchers multiple times--e.g. Timothy Good, Stanton Friedman, Paola (forget her last name--Italian close to Vatican experts on the topic), Linda Moulton Howe, Japan's top UFO expert, etc. etc. etc.
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3. My own close relative with a Q clearance working at S-4.
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4. Thousands of pages of evidence of varying qualities--including high quality.
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etc. etc. etc.
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5. It appears to me you have only your biases to cling to.
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6. I didn't start out with biases. I had an interest in Sci-Fi which naturally transferred to the UFO topic.
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7. I quickly learned enough that I early on saw that the phenomenon was real AND it was going to end up playing a part in the Bible prophecies of the end times.
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8. I began studying globalism and the oligarchy in 1965 in my job as acting Director of the University Library Special Collections Dept. We had everything from the extreme left to the extreme right in our archives. It was my duty to prepare the materials for the researchers' access etc.
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9. I quickly realized that the two topics--UFO'S AND THE GLOBALIST OLIGARCHY HAD to end up as a combined body of data and a combined strategy, combined set of facts contributive toward an END GAME set of scenarios as depicted in the Bible.
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10. It didn't take but several years to discover I was absolutely correct in that anticipated, personally predicted reality.
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11. The increasing data points proving that have piled on higher and higher. At this point, the exhaustively researched EXO-VATICANA has conclusively proven the merger of the two sphere's of reality/knowledge.
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12. The DVD that comes with the print copy of that contains 10's of THOUSANDS pages of documentation.
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13. But hey . . . a few hundred high level military and other government experts testifying about the topics simply cannot be accurate because of . . .
. . .
uhhhh
. . .
drum roll . . .
. . .
Carl Sagan's infallible doctrines and your own biases?
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Sorry but I don't find that the least bit impressive.
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« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 01:04:14 am by Quix »
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Online bigheadfred

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Re: NASA thinks there might be aliens on Jupiter’s moon (Europa)
« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2017, 12:54:28 am »
The problem with life on Europa is the fact that they're all Europeans.

Then we should send them moslems.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Quix

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Re: NASA thinks there might be aliens on Jupiter’s moon (Europa)
« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2017, 01:04:57 am »
Then we should send them moslems.

LOLOL.
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Perhaps requiring them to bunk with Moslems would enlighten them considerably on the hazards of Islam.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: NASA thinks there might be aliens on Jupiter’s moon (Europa)
« Reply #49 on: March 06, 2017, 01:12:31 am »
LOLOL.
.
Perhaps requiring them to bunk with Moslems would enlighten them considerably on the hazards of Islam.
Either that or they'd never run out of interior decorators and hairdressers.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis