Author Topic: Breaking News! California Electricity Prices are High  (Read 2785 times)

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Offline thackney

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Breaking News! California Electricity Prices are High
« on: February 26, 2017, 02:34:14 pm »
Breaking News! California Electricity Prices are High
http://www.theenergycollective.com/jamesbushnell/2399041/breaking-news-california-electricity-prices-high
February 22, 2017 by James Bushnell

In case you missed it, a recent investigative piece in the LA Times unearthed the shocking fact that California retail electricity prices are high,  about 50% higher than the national average. The article’s main focus is on the fact that California has a lot more installed nameplate generation capacity then has historically been the norm. There are several causes identified in the piece.  Deregulation of the market in the late 1990’s is pointed to as a culprit. Somewhat inconsistently, the construction of regulated, rate-based plants also takes much of the blame. One factor that was barely mentioned, however,  was California’s renewable electricity policy.

The story of how California’s electric system got to its current state is indeed a long and gory one going back at least to the 1980’s. The system still suffers from some of the after effects of the 2000 era crisis.  The Long Term Procurement Process (LTPP) put in place in the wake of the crisis, and overseen by the CPUC, has been criticized from many sides.

However, since the power crisis of the early 2000’s settled down, the dominant policy driver in the electricity sector has unquestionably been a focus on developing renewable sources of electricity generation. As is well known (outside of the LA Times apparently), California has one of the country’s most aggressive renewable portfolio standards (RPS).  The RPS requires each firm that sells electricity to end-users to procure an increasing fraction (33% by 2020, 50% by 2030) of the energy they sell from renewable sources....

However comparing the cost of a brand-new solar plant to that of a brand-new gas plant overlooks two important facts.  First, renewable, variable output sources offer very different operational capabilities than conventional sources.  Second, right now we don’t really need new capacity of any kind, and are in fact struggling to find ways to compensate the generators that are already here....
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Offline thackney

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Re: Breaking News! California Electricity Prices are High
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2017, 02:36:00 pm »
State Electricity Profiles
http://www.eia.gov/electricity/state/

U.S. average retail price per kilowatthour is 10.41 cents

California 15.42 cents/kWh
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Breaking News! California Electricity Prices are High
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2017, 09:03:21 pm »
Since a lot of natural gas is burnt at the boiler tip to generate electricity and the price of the fuel feed dominates the kw charged, could this also be a culprit?

No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline thackney

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Re: Breaking News! California Electricity Prices are High
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2017, 09:25:54 pm »
Since a lot of natural gas is burnt at the boiler tip to generate electricity and the price of the fuel feed dominates the kw charged, could this also be a culprit?



Gasoline Prices move separate from Natural Gas.  They are taxed differently as well.
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geronl

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Re: Breaking News! California Electricity Prices are High
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2017, 09:31:42 pm »
Oklahoma is doing something right it appears

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Breaking News! California Electricity Prices are High
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2017, 09:47:16 pm »
Gasoline Prices move separate from Natural Gas.  They are taxed differently as well.
Whoops, typed in natural gas and it gave me gasoline.  Google is weird/

I fell into the trap of seeing something that met my bias.  Hope I am not turning lib.

Now cannot find a recent map across US of natural gas prices.
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Offline Elderberry

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Re: Breaking News! California Electricity Prices are High
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2017, 12:07:27 am »

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Breaking News! California Electricity Prices are High
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2017, 01:00:17 pm »

thanks.

Odd how Arizona is so high.  isn't it supplying electricity to California which is deficit in generating capacity?
« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 01:01:31 pm by IsailedawayfromFR »
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Oceander

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Re: Breaking News! California Electricity Prices are High
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2017, 01:28:44 pm »

Offline thackney

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Re: Breaking News! California Electricity Prices are High
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2017, 01:35:22 pm »
Why is Florida so high?

Florida has almost no natural gas production.  I much of their NatGas comes from Texas and Louisiana via the Florida Gas Transmission Pipeline.  (I worked on a couple of expansions of that one)

http://fgttransfer.energytransfer.com/ipost/FGT
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Offline Joe Wooten

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Re: Breaking News! California Electricity Prices are High
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2017, 04:18:20 pm »
Breaking News! California Electricity Prices are High
http://www.theenergycollective.com/jamesbushnell/2399041/breaking-news-california-electricity-prices-high
February 22, 2017 by James Bushnell

In case you missed it, a recent investigative piece in the LA Times unearthed the shocking fact that California retail electricity prices are high,  about 50% higher than the national average. The article’s main focus is on the fact that California has a lot more installed nameplate generation capacity then has historically been the norm. There are several causes identified in the piece.  Deregulation of the market in the late 1990’s is pointed to as a culprit. Somewhat inconsistently, the construction of regulated, rate-based plants also takes much of the blame. One factor that was barely mentioned, however,  was California’s renewable electricity policy.

The story of how California’s electric system got to its current state is indeed a long and gory one going back at least to the 1980’s. The system still suffers from some of the after effects of the 2000 era crisis.  The Long Term Procurement Process (LTPP) put in place in the wake of the crisis, and overseen by the CPUC, has been criticized from many sides.

However, since the power crisis of the early 2000’s settled down, the dominant policy driver in the electricity sector has unquestionably been a focus on developing renewable sources of electricity generation. As is well known (outside of the LA Times apparently), California has one of the country’s most aggressive renewable portfolio standards (RPS).  The RPS requires each firm that sells electricity to end-users to procure an increasing fraction (33% by 2020, 50% by 2030) of the energy they sell from renewable sources....

However comparing the cost of a brand-new solar plant to that of a brand-new gas plant overlooks two important facts.  First, renewable, variable output sources offer very different operational capabilities than conventional sources.  Second, right now we don’t really need new capacity of any kind, and are in fact struggling to find ways to compensate the generators that are already here....

Funny how those high prices are always coupled with extensive, government mandated and subsidized "renewable" energy usage. Germany, Denmark, Californicatia, South Australia.........
« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 04:19:00 pm by Joe Wooten »

Offline skeeter

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Re: Breaking News! California Electricity Prices are High
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2017, 04:21:19 pm »
Electricity, hell. NatGas prices have doubled here over the past year. Everyone I've spoken with is shocked over the increase in monthly energy costs.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 04:22:18 pm by skeeter »

Offline Joe Wooten

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Re: Breaking News! California Electricity Prices are High
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2017, 04:41:01 pm »
Electricity, hell. NatGas prices have doubled here over the past year. Everyone I've spoken with is shocked over the increase in monthly energy costs.

Taxes??

The latest Henry Hub price is about $2.50.


Offline thackney

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Re: Breaking News! California Electricity Prices are High
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2017, 01:32:01 pm »
thanks.

Odd how Arizona is so high.  isn't it supplying electricity to California which is deficit in generating capacity?

California imports about a quarter of its electricity on average
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php?topic=252076
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geronl

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Re: Breaking News! California Electricity Prices are High
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2017, 07:40:12 pm »
Electricity, hell. NatGas prices have doubled here over the past year. Everyone I've spoken with is shocked over the increase in monthly energy costs.

California uses natural gas power plants, so those prices are likely a big reason for the electric prices, but not all the reason.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/power-plants/

Texas also uses a lot of NG-produced electric. It is interesting to let your cursor hover over the states. Some states get very little electricity from NG

geronl

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Re: Breaking News! California Electricity Prices are High
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2017, 07:41:49 pm »
Florida has almost no natural gas production.  I much of their NatGas comes from Texas and Louisiana via the Florida Gas Transmission Pipeline.  (I worked on a couple of expansions of that one)

http://fgttransfer.energytransfer.com/ipost/FGT

The vast majority of Florida's electricity seems to come from that imported NG.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Breaking News! California Electricity Prices are High
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2017, 07:42:37 pm »
CA has high electricity prices?

Well!

I'm shocked....

 :silly:
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Offline skeeter

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Re: Breaking News! California Electricity Prices are High
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2017, 07:46:43 pm »
California uses natural gas power plants, so those prices are likely a big reason for the electric prices, but not all the reason.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/power-plants/

Texas also uses a lot of NG-produced electric. It is interesting to let your cursor hover over the states. Some states get very little electricity from NG

We've definitely suffered a multiplier effect here in CA.

Between this, health insurance and property taxes its getting damn tough to get by. Someone had better do something.

geronl

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Re: Breaking News! California Electricity Prices are High
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2017, 07:52:14 pm »
We've definitely suffered a multiplier effect here in CA.

Between this, health insurance and property taxes its getting damn tough to get by. Someone had better do something.

another government program or two, maybe a fast train to Barstow will fix all the woes.