Author Topic: Executive orders (Read 1342 times)

pjohns · « **on:** February 25, 2017, 06:39:48 pm »

During the previous administration, I regularly criticized then-President Obama for ruling through executive orders. And he fully deserved the criticism, in my opinion.

At the moment, however, President Trump is doing very much the same thing. And I am not sure, at all, if it is better for a Republican president to be ruling that way than it is for a Democratic president to do so.

Now, I have no problem, at all, with President Trump's using executive orders to repeal Barack Obama's executive orders.

But for other matters, I believe that he should go through Congress--which is not merely an asterisk in our political system. (At least, it is not meant to be.)

Thoughts?

LonestarDream · « **Reply #1 on:** February 25, 2017, 06:42:13 pm »

Tell ya what. After Trump rolls back decades of liberalism, we can have President Mike Coolidge Pence starting in 2024.

Even Jonah Goldberg wrote about this.

Sanguine · « **Reply #2 on:** February 25, 2017, 07:05:38 pm »

He is using EOs to rollback 0's EOs. No, I don't have a problem with it. He could expand it and use EOs the way 0 did, but until if and when that happens, I don't see a problem.

LonestarDream · « **Reply #3 on:** February 25, 2017, 07:08:32 pm »

Quote from: Sanguine on February 25, 2017, 07:05:38 pm

He is using EOs to rollback 0's EOs. No, I don't have a problem with it. He could expand it and use EOs the way 0 did, but until if and when that happens, I don't see a problem.

Pence will be running the government like HW Bush did the last two years of Reagan.

Sanguine · « **Reply #4 on:** February 25, 2017, 07:14:22 pm »

Quote from: LonestarDream on February 25, 2017, 07:08:32 pm

Pence will be running the government like HW Bush did the last two years of Reagan.

Huh?

montanajoe · « **Reply #5 on:** February 25, 2017, 07:21:58 pm »

Bottom line ...if your guy is doing it no problem...if their guy does it the Republic will not last another second...

LonestarDream · « **Reply #6 on:** February 25, 2017, 07:23:42 pm »

Quote from: Sanguine on February 25, 2017, 07:14:22 pm

Huh?

Pence is already running a yuge Portofolio as did Cheney and HW Bush in their day.

Trumpism is the pathway to conservatism.

Sanguine · « **Reply #7 on:** February 25, 2017, 07:55:45 pm »

Quote from: LonestarDream on February 25, 2017, 07:23:42 pm

Pence is already running a yuge Portofolio as did Cheney and HW Bush in their day.

Trumpism is the pathway to conservatism.

Oh, OK, I see what you mean.

pjohns · « **Reply #8 on:** February 25, 2017, 10:24:49 pm »

Quote from: Sanguine on February 25, 2017, 07:05:38 pm

He is using EOs to rollback 0's EOs. No, I don't have a problem with it. He could expand it and use EOs the way 0 did, but until if and when that happens, I don't see a problem.

Here is a list of the 23 executive orders that President Trump had issued through February 3, 2017: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/02/03/list-trumps-executive-orders.html

Can you honestly say that all of these were merely efforts to undo the former president's executive orders?

Sanguine · « **Reply #9 on:** February 25, 2017, 10:47:48 pm »

Quote from: pjohns on February 25, 2017, 10:24:49 pm

Here is a list of the 23 executive orders that President Trump had issued through February 3, 2017: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/02/03/list-trumps-executive-orders.html

Can you honestly say that all of these were merely efforts to undo the former president's executive orders?

All? I was, of course speaking generally.

Most of them do seem to be an effort to rollback much of the damage caused by 0, yes. I misspoke when I said "EO" in regards to 0 because he used Presidental Memoranda instead of EOs. However, do you see a problem with the EOs in your list? Do they not seem like appropriate executive directives?

Bigun · « **Reply #10 on:** February 25, 2017, 10:50:52 pm »

Quote from: Sanguine on February 25, 2017, 10:47:48 pm

All? I was, of course speaking generally.

Most of them do seem to be an effort to rollback much of the damage caused by 0, yes. I misspoke when I said "EO" in regards to 0 because he used Presidental Memoranda instead of EOs. However, do you see a problem with the EOs in your list? Do they not seem like appropriate executive directives?

I see them as doing what he was elected to do. Eradicate the eight years of Obama. Not an easy task by any means.

truth_seeker · « **Reply #11 on:** February 25, 2017, 10:59:45 pm »

It would be quite useful if Congress were to author and pass legislation to do what these EOs do.

Let's see how that turns out after Congress gets back from break.

Does anybody know if they have passed any measures, that Trump has also signed?

Cyber Liberty · « **Reply #12 on:** February 26, 2017, 04:12:56 am »

Quote from: truth_seeker on February 25, 2017, 10:59:45 pm

It would be quite useful if Congress were to author and pass legislation to do what these EOs do.

Let's see how that turns out after Congress gets back from break.

Does anybody know if they have passed any measures, that Trump has also signed?

A few...

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/signed-legislation

Hondo69 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 27, 2017, 08:01:56 am »

Like so many things there exists a dichotomy of ideas - In Theory vs In Practice.

In theory only Congress has the power of the purse but in practice the president is given a wide latitude for spending taxpayer dollars.

In theory Executive Orders can only clarify or direct the execution of existing laws but in practice they have been used to create new law.

In theory politicians should act only in their constituent's best interest but . . .

pjohns · « **Reply #14 on:** March 31, 2017, 05:20:10 pm »

Quote from: Sanguine on February 25, 2017, 10:47:48 pm

[D]o you see a problem with the EOs in your list? Do they not seem like appropriate executive directives?

I think there is an enormous difference between pragmatism and principle.

Pragmatically, one may agree with the results of an action; whereas, as a matter of pure principle, one does not like the action taken.

And principle trumps pragmatism, in my book.

Always.

Sanguine · « **Reply #15 on:** March 31, 2017, 05:27:24 pm »

Quote from: pjohns on March 31, 2017, 05:20:10 pm

I think there is an enormous difference between pragmatism and principle.

Pragmatically, one may agree with the results of an action; whereas, as a matter of pure principle, one does not like the action taken.

And principle trumps pragmatism, in my book.

Always.

Well, OK, that shoe took a long time to drop!

Not sure you are commenting on what I actually said, starting with this: "He is using EOs to rollback 0's EOs."

txradioguy · « **Reply #16 on:** March 31, 2017, 05:34:40 pm »

Quote from: Sanguine on February 25, 2017, 07:14:22 pm

Huh?

Somethings are best left unanswered...trust me.

pjohns · « **Reply #17 on:** April 02, 2017, 01:11:50 am »

Quote from: Sanguine on March 31, 2017, 05:27:24 pm

Not sure you are commenting on what I actually said, starting with this: "He is using EOs to rollback 0's EOs."

In the OP, I said:

"Now, I have no problem, at all, with President Trump's using executive orders to repeal Barack Obama's executive orders."

I think that pretty well covers my views, in that area.

It is executive orders that are not intended merely to undo former President Obama's executive orders that trouble me. (For these, it would be much better to go through Congress, I think.)

Cripplecreek · « **Reply #18 on:** April 02, 2017, 01:28:46 am »

Executive orders are meaningless without legislation to back them up. People can cheer about him rolling back Obama's executive orders if the want but the next democrat will simply issue some executive orders.

bolobaby · « **Reply #19 on:** April 02, 2017, 01:32:35 am »

There can be a difference.

Remember: the executive branch of government is responsible for actually administering government functions. Therefore, as any chief executive would do for a corporation, the leader needs to issue orders so that his organization functions according to the directives he is giving them.

The real question is: are the EOs being issued an attempt at creating restrictions or legal prohibitions that do not otherwise exist in law? Or are they directing branches of the government to ignore or work around existing law?

If that is the case, then the EO is an abuse of power. If not - or if the EO is designed to undo other EOs, which is totally valid - then the EO is acceptable.

Sanguine · « **Reply #20 on:** April 02, 2017, 01:41:16 am »

Quote from: pjohns on April 02, 2017, 01:11:50 am

In the OP, I said:

"Now, I have no problem, at all, with President Trump's using executive orders to repeal Barack Obama's executive orders."

I think that pretty well covers my views, in that area.

It is executive orders that are not intended merely to undo former President Obama's executive orders that trouble me. (For these, it would be much better to go through Congress, I think.)

On that last sentence we can agree.

endicom · « **Reply #21 on:** April 02, 2017, 02:00:40 am »

Quote from: pjohns on February 25, 2017, 10:24:49 pm

Here is a list of the 23 executive orders that President Trump had issued through February 3, 2017: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/02/03/list-trumps-executive-orders.html

Can you honestly say that all of these were merely efforts to undo the former president's executive orders?

I didn't see any that expand government control of we the peeps. Some reduce that control.

If government, especially FedGov, should be doing certain things involved in those EOs is another matter.

montanajoe · « **Reply #22 on:** April 02, 2017, 03:02:51 am »

As long as their guy is doing it most on the right are fine with it...we really don't have much of a political system anymore... it's kabuki theater that both sides roll out for the entertainment of their supporters.....

Actually I no longer blame the politicians..the voters are getting what they want

txradioguy · « **Reply #23 on:** April 02, 2017, 03:41:46 am »

Quote from: montanajoe on April 02, 2017, 03:02:51 am

As long as their guy is doing it most on the right are fine with it...we really don't have much of a political system anymore... it's kabuki theater that both sides roll out for the entertainment of their supporters.....

Actually I no longer blame the politicians..the voters are getting what they want

More like what they deserve.