The Desperate Need to BELONG; Homosexuality; IN-GROUP/OUT-GROUP dynamics; Political forces added on

[Quix]

The NEED to BELONG is at least on a par of intensity with needs for food, clothing, shelter etc.

What is the opposite of a feeling of belonging?

I think it's kind of like the man in the concrete cube room . . . tap, tap, tapping on the wall to see if there's anyone on the other side . . . and there's never a responding tap.

or

It's kind of like walking into a party or classroom or other group setting wearing a striking say red shirt. You spend 30 minutes wandering around trying to have a conversation. Only every time you get near someone, they look through you as though you are literally not there. There's no hint on anyone else's part that they even perceive you to be in the room.

or

It's kind of like sending 100 emails and texts to your 100 closest friends and no one acknowledges receipt, much less responds in kind.

Being treated as non-existent, unworthy of your basic existence being acknowledged--is one of the most painful, destructive, debilitating, hopeless things one can experience.

imho, this dynamic is a huge component that's played out in all manner of co-dependent relationships, abusive relationships, addictive relationships etc.

People will trade all manner of 'goods' . . . including their own body/sexual access . . . just to diminish the horrible feeling of not belonging to anything or worse, to anyone.

Bars often are experienced as more welcoming than churches because of similar dynamics. It's easier to feel one of the gang at a bar than it is at churches--particularly when most churches are so horribly cliquish.

Gangs also have such life/death power over their members from similar dynamics. The members grew older with huge degrees of RAD (Attachment Disorder) . . . no sense of belonging to a viable family . . . and create in the gang their own "family" . . . which can result in death for the heresy of leaving it.

Many women and some percentage of men sell themselves to the highest bidder in a desperate grasp for a sense of belonging.

Sports teams succeed best when the sense of connectedness, belonging is strongest among the team members.

And sports fans viewing from their couch potato perches vicariously suck-up to the sense of team membership, of belonging by 'virtue'  of being a 'loyal fan of THEIR team.' I wonder how many brutal fisticuff fights have happened over that sense of belonging, or not.

Dr Brene Brown has researched extensively CONNECTEDNESS, VULNERABILITY, FEELING LOVED, FEELING KNOWN vs SHAME. {from Kris Vallotton's DESTINED TO WIN}

She discovered that shame is at the root of society's brokenness. And, that, of course, in a misguided attempt at decreasing the risk of not belonging, we hide our vulnerabilities and hide our shame.

Whereas, actually, sharing our vulnerabilities decreases, if not removes our shame and facilitates a sense of belonging, being CONNECTED, feeling loved and known.

I believe that most men--100's of millions of men in most cultures-- particularly Western cultures--only feel intensely emotionally connected during successful, pleasant sexual relations. And that even poor sexual relations are as close as many get to feeling connnected.

That's pretty sad.

Women usually have several gal friends they can share their hearts with--in intense emotional connectedness and meaningful dialogue.

Men don't dare. To share vulnerability is to show weakness. To show weakness is to LOSE. To lose is to fail to be a MAN. To fail to be a man is to not belong--even to one's own gender.

Yes, there are exceptions. They are statistically rare--or at least in a small minority of the general population.

Men tend to talk about sports, work and sex. And most of that talk is a variation on a theme of strutting one's skills; winning; conquest, succeeding etc. to be seen as, perceived as by the other male listeners as a TRUE MAN--regardless of how hollow and DISconnected the true realities involved are.

And the cortisol floods the blood stream. And the men die younger and more alone than ever. And their pallbearers buck up some bravado slapping each other on their backs about what a man their deceased buddy was because of the hollow, shallow, external hoops he faithfully jumped through to DISPLAY a charade of MANHOOD, being 'with it,' etc.

And they go home and get a stiff drink because they know deep down, they'll likely die just as alone--truly emotionally disconnected and alone at a heart level--just like their buddy did.

I don't have a great solution other than great fathering from birth on. Otherwise it's major catch-up with little chance for success short of hard work and usually with some professional help and at least some buddy(ies) willing to go the distance in vulnerability and emotional intimacy.

Dr Henry Wright

http://www.beinhealth.com

says that ALL addictions are a desperate search for Daddy's love that wasn't there--for a sense of connectedness with DADDY.

Father God is the ultimate source of the only truly durable and exhaustively loving connectedness. But because there is such a drought of quality fathering, most men believe that father God will not be any greater at connecting with them, loving them regardless etc. than their earthly fathers were.

So the addiction epidemics and Attachment Disorder epidemic continue apace.

There is a better way to live--connected, belonging--it is worth the price. It's just hard to find other men willing to pay the price in healthy ways and prove it out.

[Quix]

shameless ping to the OP

 Avoiding Truth
.
There is a principle
__Which is a bar against all information,
____Which is proof against all argument,
______And which cannot fail to keep man in everlasting ignorance.
________That principle is condemnation before investigation
--Edmund Spencer
 
GOP BRIEFING ROOM ‘ALTERNATE REALITIES’ PING LIST
@bigheadfred
@Cyber Liberty
@DCPatriot
@Freya
@Ghost Bear
@GrannyMinimum
@Idaho_Cowboy
@jedidah
@Liberty Tree Dr
@Mom MD
@mrpotatohead
@Smokin Joe
@Texas Yellow Rose
@the_doc
@Victoria33
@WorkingClassFilth
 

[Cyber Liberty]

Great article! I've been wondering what the Quix opinion was, exactly about this, we've all been talking around this for the past couple weeks.  This is the kind of cultural thing I like to hear your opinion on, as I have for the past several years I've been in the wilderness, so to speak, along with you on that other site (not FR).

[bigheadfred]

All I know is I have very little respect for people who won't do the things they expect of others.

[Cyber Liberty]

All I know is I have very little respect for people who won't do the things they expect of others.

Don't know these other guys, but Quix walks the walk. 

[Quix]

Great article! I've been wondering what the Quix opinion was, exactly about this, we've all been talking around this for the past couple weeks.  This is the kind of cultural thing I like to hear your opinion on, as I have for the past several years I've been in the wilderness, so to speak, along with you on that other site (not FR).

Thanks for your kind  words.

How would you summarize the "this" in this sentence?

. . .

we've all been talking around this for the past couple weeks.
. . .

Are there any aspects you'd like me to  elaborate on? Questions? Would be honored to entertain them.

I think those thoughts were . . . somewhat of an intro . . . a stream-of-consciousness blathering about some key dynamics and forces having such a huge set of influences in our culture and world this era.

So much is connected and inter-connected--too often very destructively--and that too often by oligarchy design. . . .

Destroy the family;
Create only ignorant, compliant, clueless serfs & slaves;
 etc. etc. etc.

And instead of humans, we have bits of broken human garbage vainly trying desperately to pretend they are fully human, fully alive--when they demonstrate much more the opposite.

Paul Tournier's THE MEANING OF PERSONS comes to mind.

Much appreciate your kind words. Am humbled and challenged by them.

TOS . . . About Treasonous Stupidity . . . it appears to me that it's now a lost cause. They have effectively squashed most hints of authentic Christian perspectives . . . ridiculed sanity and facts into oblivion etc. etc. etc.

If it is truly an oligarchy outpost/project, it's playing the role well.

Ahhhh welllll . . . gave it more or less my best shot.

Or, were you talking about TOS which has a small members only group?

[bigheadfred]

Don't know these other guys, but Quix walks the walk.

I'm not talking about @Quix.

I'm talking about people who say that something is a "man's job" or "woman's work".

And to get right to the point the Mexicans at work won't clean the bathrooms because they are "macho" men and don't do that kind of thing. They can take their attitude outside and crap in a bucket.

Granted there are things men are better at due to physical strength, but that is it.

I'm probably one of the few exceptions to what Quix posted.

[Quix]

Don't know these other guys, but Quix walks the walk. 

Am humbled by your words.

At least, by His Grace, I get back up and redouble my efforts when I fall down.

I certainly am averse to folks who don't walk their talk.

If I have a weakness, I try and avoid preaching arrogantly about that area.

e.g. I don't preach about avoiding OCD scratching of mosquito bites & similar bumps--because I don't avoid such very well.

Or when I see someone super obese, I just pray God, you know. Please have mercy and help them overcome. I try firmly to avoid being judgmental because I can too easily have 'just another spoonful' when I ought not--even though most folks, including my MD, don't think I'm overweight much at all. I still think I 'should' be 155lbs like I was in High School, college and the Navy, at 6' 1".

Anyway--thanks for your encouraging and challenging words.

[Quix]

I'm not talking about @Quix.

I'm talking about people who say that something is a "man's job" or "woman's work".

And to get right to the point the Mexicans at work won't clean the bathrooms because they are "macho" men and don't do that kind of thing. They can take their attitude outside and crap in a bucket.

Granted there are things men are better at due to physical strength, but that is it.

I'm probably one of the few exceptions to what Quix posted.

Would you be willing to elaborate a good bit about how, where you are an exception to whatever part I was writing about, please?

I'm clueless, otherwise.

[EC]

Why do people - men to an unhealthy degree, I totally agree - get shamed by failure? In order to fail you have to attempt to do something first. Isn't that enough for people? That they acted? They have to succeed totally?

[goodwithagun]

Dr Henry Wright

http://www.beinhealth.com

says that ALL addictions are a desperate search for Daddy's love that wasn't there--for a sense of connectedness with DADDY.

Father God is the ultimate source of the only truly durable and exhaustively loving connectedness. But because there is such a drought of quality fathering, most men believe that father God will not be any greater at connecting with them, loving them regardless etc. than their earthly fathers were

*****

Wow. This describes my "transgender" and homosexual students perfectly.

[Quix]

Why do people - men to an unhealthy degree, I totally agree - get shamed by failure? In order to fail you have to attempt to do something first. Isn't that enough for people? That they acted? They have to succeed totally?

imho,

of course it goes back to RAD--Attachment Disorder.

Insufficient affirming Daddy love for just being daddy's son.

So the son tries vainly to achieve the impossible--to be more and more perfect so daddy will HAVE to love the love-starved little boy.

Only it never works. Because if son gets 99% on the exam, Daddy blows a gasket because the son didn't get 100% . . . because Daddy's dad was the same sort of inadequate dad.

Very few bosses or parents have the smarts to affirm earnest effort and learning from one's mistakes.

It's clear that we learn most from our mistakes. But school, bosses et al don't tend to teach much from that perspective.

The press is to WIN, BE PERFECT, BE TOP GUN etc. etc. etc.

And if you don't, well, then! You're merely an 'also ran' not worth the time of those addicted to HOLLYWEED glamor, glitz and ghastly farce.

I think it would be greatly different if from birth on folks were taught--"DID YOU LEARN SOMETHING from that experience? What did you learn? How might you do better next time? Great effort! Thanks for letting me talk about it with you. I'm so proud of you and your dogged, earnest efforts to work hard, learn, do better, overcome. The mistakes are not likely to be of lasting consequence. But that you are learning in the process will be valuable all your life."

[bigheadfred]

Would you be willing to elaborate a good bit about how, where you are an exception to whatever part I was writing about, please?

I'm clueless, otherwise.

I don't have any need or desire to fit in. Part of a group? Yay! Not part of a group? Yay!

People dismay me. I don't relate to most of the things other guys do/say/like.

When I was in grade school there was a boy who was severely Down. One day out on the playground he pulled his pants down and went number poo. All these kids were making fun of him.  They shocked me. They made me mad. I went and helped him out. I was six years old.

I dance with the wallflowers.

I avoid everyone but don't shun anyone.

I'll give you the shirt off my back but if I find out you were just using me I'll rip that shirt off you and strangle you with it.

Those kind of things.

Why am I a member of this forum?

It is like a classroom for me. I learn here.

[Quix]

Why do people - men to an unhealthy degree, I totally agree - get shamed by failure? In order to fail you have to attempt to do something first. Isn't that enough for people? That they acted? They have to succeed totally?
/quote]

AND . . .

Failure is also associated with an abject terror of NOT belonging; NOT BEING CONNECTED.

No one likes the feeling, the threat--real or imagined--of being standing alone in the middle of a Death Valley sandstorm; alone on the vast iceberg with not even a penguin in sight.

The fear, of course, is that IF THEY KNEW, they would reject me. I'd have no friends. My family would leave me.

Dr Murry Banks has some old jokes about such on his excellent after dinner talk (40+ years ago) . . .
.
My paraphrase:
.
These friends are at the race track. Suddenly a woman turns to her neighbor and says, I'm sorry, do you have a safety pin?
.
No. Sorry.
.
She turns to the other neighbor--Do you have a safety pin?
.
No. Sorry.
.
Suddenly, over the loud speaker she hears THEY'RE OFF and she fainted.
.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyOl0-qbDSU
.
= = =

Most folks have a significant fear of "BEING FOUND OUT" . . . their worst, darkest sins being found out . . . and the results being everyone dear to them would flee their life and relationships.

The terror of being alone is huge.

And, many people are neurotic enough--or worse--to think that their common failures are unique to them--that other people are near perfect--except for them. It's sort of a pathetic upside down pride.

[Quix]

I don't have any need or desire to fit in. Part of a group? Yay! Not part of a group? Yay!

People dismay me. I don't relate to most of the things other guys do/say/like.

When I was in grade school there was a boy who was severely Down. One day out on the playground he pulled his pants down and went number poo. All these kids were making fun of him.  They shocked me. They made me mad. I went and helped him out. I was six years old.

I dance with the wallflowers.

I avoid everyone but don't shun anyone.

I'll give you the shirt off my back but if I find out you were just using me I'll rip that shirt off you and strangle you with it.

Those kind of things.

Why am I a member of this forum?

It is like a classroom for me. I learn here.

Thanks. Much appreciated.

Love your compassion and connecting with the marginal folks.

Congrats.

Quite admirable.

Blessings,

[Quix]

Dr Henry Wright

http://www.beinhealth.com

says that ALL addictions are a desperate search for Daddy's love that wasn't there--for a sense of connectedness with DADDY.

Father God is the ultimate source of the only truly durable and exhaustively loving connectedness. But because there is such a drought of quality fathering, most men believe that father God will not be any greater at connecting with them, loving them regardless etc. than their earthly fathers were

*****

Wow. This describes my "transgender" and homosexual students perfectly.

I don't know of a single case of homosexuality it fails to fit.

I've had a number of 'gays' say that they had a very loving father etc. etc.

Yet, when I ask a few questions, it was obvious that Dad did not connect in a healthy, AFFECTIONATE way that was deeply emotionally bonded.

One can go to all the kid's ball games; cheer the kid on at every sports event . . . and still not connect heart to heart.

[bigheadfred]

I view homosexuality as laziness.

[Quix]

I view homosexuality as laziness.

imho,

There's truth to that.

IT's frightful for many to rise to the challenges of a heterosexual relationship.

It's far easier to connect with another male . . . because you know something about what that's like and what a male likes.

Women? Hooooo boy . . . where's the man who truly understands a woman?

It's a frightful prospect for many guys.

Easier to have a mutual itch-scratching duo.

[bigheadfred]

imho,

There's truth to that.

IT's frightful for many to rise to the challenges of a heterosexual relationship.

It's far easier to connect with another male . . . because you know something about what that's like and what a male likes.

Women? Hooooo boy . . . where's the man who truly understands a woman?

It's a frightful prospect for many guys.

Easier to have a mutual itch-scratching duo.

I think there is a lot of that with women, too. Girls that think they will never attract a male. They 'can't' control the hormones, the drive, so they give in to the alternative.

[goodwithagun]

I don't know of a single case of homosexuality it fails to fit.

I've had a number of 'gays' say that they had a very loving father etc. etc.

Yet, when I ask a few questions, it was obvious that Dad did not connect in a healthy, AFFECTIONATE way that was deeply emotionally bonded.

One can go to all the kid's ball games; cheer the kid on at every sports event . . . and still not connect heart to heart.

It's modern helicopter parenting combined with classic keeping up with the Joneses. Mom writes the kid's research paper so it's perfect, so kid never really learns anything other than he's perfect. Dad buys kid the car he wanted when he was 18, because he wants his kid to fit in. Add high stakes youth sports which eliminate family dinner time and you have the perfect storm.

We have been criticized for not enrolling our kids (8, 5, and 3) in every program under the sun, while at the same time received criticism for not feeding them fast food. We don't need to feed them junk because we cook them meals that we sit down and eat together. It's brutal to be a parent now, but I know the criticism comes from their own jealousy. They don't have the balls to make the decisions we do. Oh, and don't get me started on enrolling little boys in dance classes!

[Quix]

I think there is a lot of that with women, too. Girls that think they will never attract a male. They 'can't' control the hormones, the drive, so they give in to the alternative.

I've seen that.

[Quix]

It's modern helicopter parenting combined with classic keeping up with the Joneses. Mom writes the kid's research paper so it's perfect, so kid never really learns anything other than he's perfect. Dad buys kid the car he wanted when he was 18, because he wants his kid to fit in. Add high stakes youth sports which eliminate family dinner time and you have the perfect storm.

We have been criticized for not enrolling our kids (8, 5, and 3) in every program under the sun, while at the same time received criticism for not feeding them fast food. We don't need to feed them junk because we cook them meals that we sit down and eat together. It's brutal to be a parent now, but I know the criticism comes from their own jealousy. They don't have the balls to make the decisions we do. Oh, and don't get me started on enrolling little boys in dance classes!

THAT'S VERY IMPRESSIVE! CONGRATS! Please keep up the good work! What an example.

[Victoria33]

I don't have any need or desire to fit in. Part of a group? Yay! Not part of a group? Yay!
People dismay me. I don't relate to most of the things other guys do/say/like.  When I was in grade school there was a boy who was severely Down. One day out on the playground he pulled his pants down and went number poo. All these kids were making fun of him.  They shocked me. They made me mad. I went and helped him out. I was six years old.  I dance with the wallflowers.  I avoid everyone but don't shun anyone.  I'll give you the shirt off my back but if I find out you were just using me I'll rip that shirt off you and strangle you with it.  Those kind of things.  Why am I a member of this forum?  It is like a classroom for me. I learn here.

@bigheadfred

I pronounce you 100% mentally healthy.   

[goodwithagun]

THAT'S VERY IMPRESSIVE! CONGRATS! Please keep up the good work! What an example.

 

No seriously, the kids are in bed and I'm drinking 

[truth_seeker]

Native American homosexuality

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-Spirit

LGBT in Islam

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam

Homosexuality in China

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_China

Homosexuality in India

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_India

Latinos’ changing views of same-sex marriage

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/06/19/latinos-changing-views-of-same-sex-marriage/

History of homosexuality

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_homosexuality

It seems to me that homosexuality has been around for a long time, the world over.