Author Topic: Why Trump Should NOT Repeal or Replace ObamaCare (Just Let It Die)  (Read 22959 times)

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Offline Norm Lenhart

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Re: Why Trump Should NOT Repeal or Replace ObamaCare (Just Let It Die)
« Reply #175 on: February 24, 2017, 10:25:49 pm »
I find that I expect less and less of you as this discussion goes forward.  Pity.


This 'discussion' was hashed, rehashed and settled some time ago when the numbers rolled in and Obamacare was shown to have increased costs, lowered access to functional healthcare, put some doctors out of business, caused others to retire, reduce the quality of what healthcare remained and caused more harm to the public than benefit.

Now the 'discussion' comes down to supporters of a liberal and disastrous policy trying desperately to convince sane people that you can in fact polish a turd.

Offline r9etb

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Re: Why Trump Should NOT Repeal or Replace ObamaCare (Just Let It Die)
« Reply #176 on: February 24, 2017, 10:30:42 pm »

This 'discussion' was hashed, rehashed and settled some time ago when the numbers rolled in and Obamacare was shown to have increased costs, lowered access to functional healthcare, put some doctors out of business, caused others to retire, reduce the quality of what healthcare remained and caused more harm to the public than benefit.

Now the 'discussion' comes down to supporters of a liberal and disastrous policy trying desperately to convince sane people that you can in fact polish a turd.

You understand that the discussion on this thread has become one about "what to do next," don't you?

Nah.  Probably not.

Offline Norm Lenhart

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Re: Why Trump Should NOT Repeal or Replace ObamaCare (Just Let It Die)
« Reply #177 on: February 24, 2017, 10:40:07 pm »
You understand that the discussion on this thread has become one about "what to do next," don't you?

Nah.  Probably not.

You do know that has long been addressed as well don't you? No, probably not. You just want to continue trying to stretch Obamacare out as far as it can go with 'fixes'.

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Why Trump Should NOT Repeal or Replace ObamaCare (Just Let It Die)
« Reply #178 on: February 24, 2017, 10:43:13 pm »
Ya'll know our opinion here ain't worth spit in the bucket, right? The buzzards in DC are the ones that have to hash it out.
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline Norm Lenhart

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Re: Why Trump Should NOT Repeal or Replace ObamaCare (Just Let It Die)
« Reply #179 on: February 24, 2017, 10:45:33 pm »
Ya'll know our opinion here ain't worth spit in the bucket, right? The buzzards in DC are the ones that have to hash it out.

Sure. But that applies to everything we talk about.

Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Why Trump Should NOT Repeal or Replace ObamaCare (Just Let It Die)
« Reply #180 on: February 24, 2017, 11:30:57 pm »

This 'discussion' was hashed, rehashed and settled some time ago when the numbers rolled in and Obamacare was shown to have increased costs, lowered access to functional healthcare, put some doctors out of business, caused others to retire, reduce the quality of what healthcare remained and caused more harm to the public than benefit.

Now the 'discussion' comes down to supporters of a liberal and disastrous policy trying desperately to convince sane people that you can in fact polish a turd.
It all comes down to this: if the ACA truly was a good deal for everyone, they wouldn't have to mandate everyone buy into it.
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Offline Norm Lenhart

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Re: Why Trump Should NOT Repeal or Replace ObamaCare (Just Let It Die)
« Reply #181 on: February 24, 2017, 11:37:33 pm »
It all comes down to this: if the ACA truly was a good deal for everyone, they wouldn't have to mandate everyone buy into it.

Yup. And as that is the case, people insisting on saving/fixing it clearly aren't doing so for the benefit of the people it's supposed to 'help'. Obamacare cannot exist in any form without the mandate.

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Why Trump Should NOT Repeal or Replace ObamaCare (Just Let It Die)
« Reply #182 on: February 24, 2017, 11:55:27 pm »
It all comes down to this: if the ACA truly was a good deal for everyone, they wouldn't have to mandate everyone buy into it.
Amen.  :amen:
Socialism ideas so good they have to be mandatory.
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

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Re: Why Trump Should NOT Repeal or Replace ObamaCare (Just Let It Die)
« Reply #183 on: February 25, 2017, 07:09:57 am »
Don't forget to add this to your cogent analysis:

Electoral defeat for the GOP and conservatives - yes
I think you forgot that a big part of the TEA party movement was about repealing Obamacare. That issue delivered the Congress to the GOP, perhaps more than any other single issue. Add that to your analysis.

I would wager the majority of the people you think benefited from Obamacare would not have been likely GOP voters anyway. The program was a giveaway for the Democrat base, by the Democrats, Passed by the Democrats, that lived through the unconstitutional actions of one man, a Supreme Court Justice. The 'fix' was so solidly 'in' that they left a severability clause out of the legislation.

In the meantime, those who had their doctors, who had decent insurance and now are without are waiting for the elimination of a bad program, not baling wire and duct tape to hold that mess together.
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C S Lewis

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Re: Why Trump Should NOT Repeal or Replace ObamaCare (Just Let It Die)
« Reply #184 on: February 25, 2017, 07:10:43 am »
Amen.  :amen:
Socialism ideas so good they have to be mandatory.
You betcha! They'll make you happy, if they have to do it at gunpoint.
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Why Trump Should NOT Repeal or Replace ObamaCare (Just Let It Die)
« Reply #185 on: February 25, 2017, 07:11:56 am »

This 'discussion' was hashed, rehashed and settled some time ago when the numbers rolled in and Obamacare was shown to have increased costs, lowered access to functional healthcare, put some doctors out of business, caused others to retire, reduce the quality of what healthcare remained and caused more harm to the public than benefit.

Now the 'discussion' comes down to supporters of a liberal and disastrous policy trying desperately to convince sane people that you can in fact polish a turd.
888high58888 :beer:
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Why Trump Should NOT Repeal or Replace ObamaCare (Just Let It Die)
« Reply #186 on: February 25, 2017, 07:19:05 am »
So far you've identified two groups who support ACA a) the poor, and b) unemployed men over 50 (arguable).

Is this the unbeatable voting block that will throw republicans out of power?
Well, now, that might be because he is too PC to mention the addicts (the ads are all over cable TV for 'addiction counseling' which 'might be covered by health insurance') and homosexuals (and addicts) who couldn't get health insurance over 'lifestyle issues', whether they have AIDS, HIV, or other serologically borne or STDs from that lifestyle. Those people were uninsurable under the old plans because of the outrageous risk factors associated with their choices.

Now the rest of America is picking up the tab for that 'insurance', while those of us who made more wholesome choices either have degraded health care or no insurance at all and are fined for not having it.


How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Why Trump Should NOT Repeal or Replace ObamaCare (Just Let It Die)
« Reply #187 on: February 25, 2017, 07:30:09 am »
How about the idea, that anti-Trumpers like you and JH have been wrong, all along.

So why credit you with suddenly possessing the source of all knowledge?

Besides, you have not even seen what the "replace" measure contains.
But you are both making the same mistake about anti-trumpers deapite the evidence often displayed before you. These aren't people who didn't vote for Trump, not because they thought Trump was too Conservative, but because Trump was not conservative enough.. Do not make the mistake of again redefining the "Right" on the basis of what occupied that relative position in the General election.

Even here--especially here (because those who expressed such sentiment elsewhere were evicted), a strong contingent of people who did vote for Trump did so with grave reservations and only to prevent Hillary from winning, which without argument would have been worse.

This doesn't establish Trump as any paragon of Conservative virtue (If that is going to happen, he has to walk the walk, unfailingly),  it just made him the barely lesser evil in an election with low turnouts. So don't assume that there wasn't a contingent who didn't vote for him because he wasn't Conservative enough. 11% of the popular vote in this state went third party.

The TEA party movement helped establish the GOP Congress, and largely over repealing the ACA.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Why Trump Should NOT Repeal or Replace ObamaCare (Just Let It Die)
« Reply #188 on: February 25, 2017, 09:05:28 am »
It all comes down to this: if the ACA truly was a good deal for everyone, they wouldn't have to mandate everyone buy into it.


Very good point. Freedom of choice. All Americans should have it.

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Why Trump Should NOT Repeal or Replace ObamaCare (Just Let It Die)
« Reply #189 on: February 27, 2017, 04:35:17 pm »

Very good point. Freedom of choice. All Americans should have it.
To which liberals say: "Not if they make the wrong choice."
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Offline CSM

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Re: Why Trump Should NOT Repeal or Replace ObamaCare (Just Let It Die)
« Reply #190 on: February 27, 2017, 04:49:53 pm »
The vast majority of "working poor" are the young.  They are just beginning their productive lives and as a result they have not accumulated the experience, knowledge or wisdom that makes their productivity (labor, intellect) worth the highest pay.  In addition, they have not had time to accumulate savings, benefit from compounding or other ways of building wealth.  It makes complete sense that the young would not be as wealthy as generations older than they are. 

In addition, the same "working poor" are much healthier as a group, therefore their health care needs are exponentially smaller than those older generations that have had the physical tole of life ravage them physically for decades.

So, it is a double edged sword, the older one gets the wealthier they should be, yet they will need more medical services due to the physical wear and tear of life. 

The ACA, with it's mandate, actually transfers much of the elderly's cost to the young.  That is the point of the entire system.  As a result, it is very effective at transferring money from the "working poor" to the wealthier generations.  That is actually evil to the core.

Would you agree with me that we should not be transferring wealth from these young folks that are just beginning their working careers to the older generations that have had time to accumulate wealth?

@Jazzhead I find it interesting that you didn't respond to this question.  Perhaps I should have "@'d" you the first time.  I know that you were getting a lot of direct responses and that can cause one to slip by.  I asked the above in ernest, Can you and I agree that we should not steal from the working poor to redistribute their earnings to the more wealthy older generations?

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Why Trump Should NOT Repeal or Replace ObamaCare (Just Let It Die)
« Reply #191 on: February 27, 2017, 05:37:59 pm »
@Jazzhead I find it interesting that you didn't respond to this question.  Perhaps I should have "@'d" you the first time.  I know that you were getting a lot of direct responses and that can cause one to slip by.  I asked the above in ernest, Can you and I agree that we should not steal from the working poor to redistribute their earnings to the more wealthy older generations?

Hi CSM, thanks for your question.   Speaking generally, the ACA targets two broad categories of individuals for most of its practical assistance - the working poor and folks over the age of 50 who've lost their jobs but aren't old enough to qualify for Medicare.   The ACA addresses the working poor primarily by expanding the reach of Medicaid.  As for folks over 50,  the ACA both creates an insurance market for "guaranteed issue" coverage and prevents insurers from charging premiums for older individuals at more than a 3 to 1 ratio than the rates charged to younger individuals.   

Since that 3 to 1 ratio is not justifiable from an actuarial perspective (I think approximately a 5 to 1 ratio is what insurers were charging before the ACA),  you are correct that younger folks are subsidizing the premiums paid by older folks.   Whatever you may think of such subsidization,  the bottom line has been many younger folks have recognized the bad deal and are declining coverage at all (paying the ACA tax instead).   The lack of younger, healthier lives in the ACA marketplace has in turn led to substantial premium increases for the sicker, older lives that have heretofore benefits from the ACA.

Two simple fixes, therefore, would be to abolish the required 3 to 1 ratio (as well as certain other ACA changes that keep the cost of policies high, such as the ban on lifetime or annual limits)  and encourage more younger lives in the insurance pool by allowing employers to provide credits to health reimbursement accounts (that satisfy the employer mandate) to help their employees purchase policies in the ACA marketplace.   

That's not, of course, all that would need to be done,  but those simple reforms would go a long way to mitigate the current "death spiral" in the ACA marketplaces.   
« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 05:39:45 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline CSM

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Re: Why Trump Should NOT Repeal or Replace ObamaCare (Just Let It Die)
« Reply #192 on: February 28, 2017, 02:03:23 pm »
-snip-
The lack of younger, healthier lives in the ACA marketplace has in turn led to substantial premium increases for the sicker, older lives that have heretofore benefits from the ACA.
-snip-
Two simple fixes,......and encourage more younger lives in the insurance pool...... 

Just as an FYI, I purposefully isolated these comments to make your response more precise.  I am not attempting to twist your words in any way.

In the first comment, you acknowledge that the result of government run health care is to redistribute wealth from the younger working poor generations TO the older wealthier generations.  Then you follow that with a fix for the system and that fix is to "encourage" more of that redistribution.

That shows that your stated concerns for these working poor are not sincere.  Your real concern is to maintain big government dictates in health care.  That is what you truly want to protect, even to the point that it causes harm to the working poor. 

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Why Trump Should NOT Repeal or Replace ObamaCare (Just Let It Die)
« Reply #193 on: February 28, 2017, 03:46:19 pm »
Just as an FYI, I purposefully isolated these comments to make your response more precise.  I am not attempting to twist your words in any way.

In the first comment, you acknowledge that the result of government run health care is to redistribute wealth from the younger working poor generations TO the older wealthier generations.  Then you follow that with a fix for the system and that fix is to "encourage" more of that redistribution.

That shows that your stated concerns for these working poor are not sincere.  Your real concern is to maintain big government dictates in health care.  That is what you truly want to protect, even to the point that it causes harm to the working poor.

C'mon,  CSM,  play fair.   Abolishing the 3 to 1 ratio rule will immediately lower the premiums that younger workers pay, because they won't be subsidizing older workers.  Meanwhile, an effective means for employers to satisfy their own mandate requirements by providing cash to encourage employees to go to the ACA exchanges will bring more younger, healthier lives into the pool of insurables.  Again, the bottom line is lower premiums as the risk is spread among a larger pool.  That's insurance 101,  not evidence that I'm not "sincere" in wanting the working poor to have affordable insurance.   

Shouldn't you be supporting single payer, where insurance is paid for out of general tax revenues?  If your concern is the working poor,  that's the means by which coverage can be made most affordable, but letting the rich subsidize the poor.     
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Why Trump Should NOT Repeal or Replace ObamaCare (Just Let It Die)
« Reply #194 on: February 28, 2017, 10:16:09 pm »
but letting the rich subsidize the poor.     
Ah, the old Socialist response to everything:  Force those who are successful to pay for others who are not successful.

A genuine utopia until, as Margaret Thatcher reminds us, The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Why Trump Should NOT Repeal or Replace ObamaCare (Just Let It Die)
« Reply #195 on: February 28, 2017, 10:59:52 pm »
Ah, the old Socialist response to everything:  Force those who are successful to pay for others who are not successful.

A genuine utopia until, as Margaret Thatcher reminds us, The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

Lots of things are paid for by the "community" from general tax revenues -  national defense,  roads and bridges,  old age pensions,  medical insurance for the old and the very poor.   The health care financing system we have now is rooted in the employment relationship,  providing a tax incentive for employers to provide medical insurance to their employees in lieu of higher wages.  It creates a number of distortions that have nothing to do with socialism -  two folks may live next door to each other, with both earning the same wage,  but one will lack medical insurance because his employer is too small, or he works multiple part-time jobs.  Is that fair?  Or is fairness something a "rugged individualist" and self-appointed expert on "conservatism" like you doesn't give a damn about?   

While the knee-jerk "conservative" position may be to let the working poor suffer and fend for themselves,  that itself causes the rest of us to subsidize the care the working poor receive,  especially in emergency rooms.   That cost is paid for by us in the form of higher insurance premiums because of higher charges by hospitals to cover the cost of uncompensated care.   

Be careful when you charge "socialism" - we all get sick at one time or another,  and the fortunate subsidize the less fortunate under just about any system you care to devise.   
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 11:04:02 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Why Trump Should NOT Repeal or Replace ObamaCare (Just Let It Die)
« Reply #196 on: February 28, 2017, 11:04:13 pm »
Lots of things are paid for by the "community" from general tax revenues -  national defense,  roads and bridges,  old age pensions,  medical insurance for the old and the very poor.   The health care financing system we have now is rooted in the employment relationship,  providing a tax incentive employers to provide medical insurance to their employees in lieu of wages.  It creates a number of distortions that have nothing to do with socialism -  two folks may live next door to each other, with both earning the same wage,  but one will lack medical insurance because his employer is two small, or he works multiple part-time jobs.  Is that fair?  Or is fairness something you don't give a damn about?   

While the knee-jerk "conservative" position may be to let the working poor suffer and fend for themselves,  that itself causes the rest of us to subsidize the care the working poor receive,  especially in emergency rooms.   That cost is paid for by us in the form of higher insurance premiums because of higher charges by hospitals to cover the cost of uncompensated care.   

Be careful when you charge "socialism" - we all get sick at one time or another,  and the fortunate subsidize the less fortunate under just about any system you care to devise.   
No, frankly I don't give a damn about fairness.

Where do you draw the line? I usually pay my own bills that's just part of my code. I don't mind helping people, but I sure as hell mind when someone wants to steal my money to "help" somebody else.

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Re: Why Trump Should NOT Repeal or Replace ObamaCare (Just Let It Die)
« Reply #197 on: March 01, 2017, 01:59:31 am »
Lots of things are paid for by the "community" from general tax revenues -  national defense,  roads and bridges,  old age pensions,  medical insurance for the old and the very poor.   The health care financing system we have now is rooted in the employment relationship,  providing a tax incentive for employers to provide medical insurance to their employees in lieu of higher wages.  It creates a number of distortions that have nothing to do with socialism -  two folks may live next door to each other, with both earning the same wage,  but one will lack medical insurance because his employer is too small, or he works multiple part-time jobs.  Is that fair?  Or is fairness something a "rugged individualist" and self-appointed expert on "conservatism" like you doesn't give a damn about?   

While the knee-jerk "conservative" position may be to let the working poor suffer and fend for themselves,  that itself causes the rest of us to subsidize the care the working poor receive,  especially in emergency rooms.   That cost is paid for by us in the form of higher insurance premiums because of higher charges by hospitals to cover the cost of uncompensated care.   

Be careful when you charge "socialism" - we all get sick at one time or another,  and the fortunate subsidize the less fortunate under just about any system you care to devise.   

The first mistake you make is accepting that the federal government has a role in our private health care.

From there it is just big government statism options on how big government statism can achieve the results you seek. Picking winners and losers based on the "greater good" as viewed by those in power. Our government isn't supposed to be in the position of picking winners and losers. You are in the trees and have lost sight of the forest - a forest you shouldn't be in in the first place.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Why Trump Should NOT Repeal or Replace ObamaCare (Just Let It Die)
« Reply #198 on: March 01, 2017, 01:19:47 pm »
The first mistake you make is accepting that the federal government has a role in our private health care.

From there it is just big government statism options on how big government statism can achieve the results you seek. Picking winners and losers based on the "greater good" as viewed by those in power. Our government isn't supposed to be in the position of picking winners and losers. You are in the trees and have lost sight of the forest - a forest you shouldn't be in in the first place.

You fail to appreciate that liberty with respect to our private health care is a function of the rules in place for health care financing.   There's no bar - never has been -  keeping you from seeing the doctor of your choice.   Except for the reality that you'll have to pay him.  And for most of us,  that depends on the quality of the insurance we have.   

Disparities in medical outcomes is a function of the quality of insurance.   For many,  the current employer-based system continues to work okay,  even as copays and cost-sharing seem to go up every year.   But an employer-based system has distortions of its own - including tying folks down to jobs they don't necessarily want but hang on to for the insurance.   On a macro level,  that decreases job mobility and economic growth. 

Notice I haven't even mentioned the dirty word "fairness" yet.   But this isn't a matter of fairness between rich and poor - I know that as conservatives we can't be in favor of that.   It's a matter of fairness between folks lucky enough to have a job that provides health coverage and those who are unlucky.   That is, it could be you or me next week, next month, next year, who may be out of one of those lucky jobs and forced to work two part-time gigs with no coverage.   And unlucky enough to get sick -  because we'll ALL get sick at some point in our lives.

What are the sorts of things that the community typically provides to all and finances through general tax revenues?    The common defense, roads, bridges and other infrastructure,  Social Security in old age.   Things we all use or need, at one time or another, whether we're lucky or unlucky in life.   

Same thing with insurance for medical care.   Consider the thought experiment posed by John Rawles -  if you viewed the matter through a "veil of ignorance",  not knowing your circumstances in life, not knowing whether you'd be have a job with health benefits or not,  not knowing whether you'd be prone to disease or poor health,  not knowing whether you'd have savings to address an unexpected emergency or be left to the mercy of others.   What sort of health care financing system would you favor?   A system based on the arbitrary circumstance of employment?   Or a system based on everyone contributing their fair share to an insurance pool that offers security against arbitrary destitution?   

Look, I'm an old man from an era when conservatism wasn't about selfishness.  I've been advocating for a private insurance-based alternative to our employer-based system since before Obama entered politics.   I supported Romney in part because of Romneycare.    Now the ACA has discredited among conservatives the private insurance model for addressing access to affordable coverage, even though the basic idea has a conservative pedigree with its genesis in the Jack Kemp era.  I may well be alone in thinking it can still work,  and that the ACA's flaws are not fatal.

But the conservatism of my generation is denounced as liberalism these days,  and it seems that no one's willing to even listen.   But if today's conservatives can't or won't fix the ACA,  we need to face reality -  the only politically viable alternative may be single payer.   Medicare for all,  financed by general revenues.     
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 01:40:05 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Why Trump Should NOT Repeal or Replace ObamaCare (Just Let It Die)
« Reply #199 on: March 01, 2017, 02:38:34 pm »
Lots of things are paid for by the "community" from general tax revenues -  national defense,  roads and bridges,  old age pensions,  medical insurance for the old and the very poor.   The health care financing system we have now is rooted in the employment relationship,  providing a tax incentive for employers to provide medical insurance to their employees in lieu of higher wages.  It creates a number of distortions that have nothing to do with socialism -  two folks may live next door to each other, with both earning the same wage,  but one will lack medical insurance because his employer is too small, or he works multiple part-time jobs.  Is that fair?  Or is fairness something a "rugged individualist" and self-appointed expert on "conservatism" like you doesn't give a damn about?   

While the knee-jerk "conservative" position may be to let the working poor suffer and fend for themselves,  that itself causes the rest of us to subsidize the care the working poor receive,  especially in emergency rooms.   That cost is paid for by us in the form of higher insurance premiums because of higher charges by hospitals to cover the cost of uncompensated care.   

Be careful when you charge "socialism" - we all get sick at one time or another,  and the fortunate subsidize the less fortunate under just about any system you care to devise.   
The problems with this type of thinking is there is no end in sight.  After $7 trillion dollars spent on the welfare state since LBJ, there remains even more working poor, more on foodstamps, and incentives to elevate these to other than poor do not exist.

Throwing more money at a problem does not improve anything but creates dependence.

What we need desperately is educate as forcefully as we strip money from hard-working Americans to make dependency for others.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington