Author Topic: In military collectibles, supply often falls short of demand  (Read 1285 times)

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Offline Just_Victor

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In military collectibles, supply often falls short of demand
« on: February 21, 2017, 12:44:44 pm »
Source: FoxNews
http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2017/02/20/in-military-collectibles-supply-often-falls-short-demand.html


By  Jerry Garrett | February 20, 2017

When the producers of "Fury" planned to make a technically correct film about an American World War II tank crew’s exploits, they ran into a problem. The type of tank they wanted to use was nowhere to be found, the result of heavy casualties on the battlefield.

So they had to use the wrong tank.

And that’s a problem that a lot of collectors, or rather would-be collectors, of certain World War militaria can encounter. Many of the most desirable collectibles, like early tanks, airplanes and certain armaments, no longer exist except in photographs, old newsreels and the occasional museum.

In fact, when trying to find an original Voisin airplane, which had become the world’s most common type of aircraft in the years leading up to World War I, one noted collector, Peter Mullin, found there were none left.

“I searched the world,” Mullin recalled. “I found one, in Switzerland, but it turned out to be a replica.”

The Smithsonian’s National Air and Space Museum in Washington, D.C., claims to have the oldest surviving Voisin bomber, a Type 8 manufactured in 1916.

“Tens of thousands of Voisin airplanes were manufactured,” Mullin said. “It seems almost unimaginable that they’re all gone.”

The same could be said about certain early models of the once-ubiquitous Sherman tank, which were also manufactured in the tens of thousands.

In "Fury", the 2014 film starring Brad Pitt and Shia LaBeouf, a five-man crew in the storied 66th Armored Regiment, part of the U.S. Army’s 2ndArmored Division, pushes into the heart of Germany in April 1945 – just days before the Nazi surrender.

In the film’s telling, the crew was really attached to this particular tank – enough to bestow the name "Fury" on it – and they’d been fighting together in it since the North Africa campaign in 1942. With that provenance, "Fury" likely would have been a Sherman M2 or M4A3, each of which went into production in 1942. But here’s the rub: It would have been unlikely for an early-model M2 or M4 to have survived all that time. Tank battles in that part of the war, you see, had a 50 percent casualty rate.

In fact, only one Sherman tank – a Canadian one – is known to have survived all the way from the D-Day landing in June 1944 to V-E Day in May 1945. One!

So the filmmakers used a later model, which went into production in late 1944. A number of those examples still exist, as they were produced through the Korean War and even later. Those enjoyed a better survival rate, if for no other reason than they were no longer up against the German juggernauts.

The American Sherman tanks in the movie – 10 were used – all came from the Tank Museum in Bovington, in southern England, which boasts one of the finest and most complete collections of historic tanks.

That’s also where the filmmakers got the movie’s nearly indestructible German Tiger I tank, known as a Panzer, a relic whose production ended with the demise of the Third Reich. The Panzer at the Tank Museum is reputed to be the only surviving Tiger 131 tank still in working order.

more...
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: In military collectibles, supply often falls short of demand
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2017, 01:33:10 pm »
Survival rates were low, but the tanks were recovered, repaired, repainted, and re-used with new numbers after the dead and wounded had been removed, provided the tank had not burned (which wrecked the temper of the metal involved).

The same tank might have been in multiple engagements under different numbers.
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/675308.Death_Traps

Like B-17s or B-24s, few working examples survive, most having been scrapped.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2017, 01:34:05 pm by Smokin Joe »
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Offline thackney

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Re: In military collectibles, supply often falls short of demand
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2017, 02:30:23 pm »
https://www.drivetanks.com/

Texas, of course.

DriveTanks, located at the Ox Ranch, is the only location in the world where you can drive and shoot fully functional tanks, artillery, machine guns, and other weapons of war.  There are few experiences in life more exhilarating than shooting a Sherman tank’s 76mm cannon!  Your tank driving experience will include a FREE safari tour of the Ox Ranch.  This beautiful hunting ranch is home to thousands of animals from over 50 different species.  You and your family may hand feed their giraffes, as well as view white buffalo, kangaroos, zebras, & much more free ranging on 18,000+ acres.
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Offline Just_Victor

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Re: In military collectibles, supply often falls short of demand
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2017, 04:06:41 pm »
Survival rates were low, but the tanks were recovered, repaired, repainted, and re-used with new numbers after the dead and wounded had been removed, provided the tank had not burned (which wrecked the temper of the metal involved).

The same tank might have been in multiple engagements under different numbers.
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/675308.Death_Traps

Like B-17s or B-24s, few working examples survive, most having been scrapped.

They swapped out parts on them too.  They could change out the turret in an hour or less, I'm told.

So even one that survived the war might (most likely?) have newer parts on it.
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geronl

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Re: In military collectibles, supply often falls short of demand
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2017, 05:46:06 pm »
https://www.drivetanks.com/

Texas, of course.

DriveTanks, located at the Ox Ranch, is the only location in the world where you can drive and shoot fully functional tanks, artillery, machine guns, and other weapons of war.  There are few experiences in life more exhilarating than shooting a Sherman tank’s 76mm cannon!  Your tank driving experience will include a FREE safari tour of the Ox Ranch.  This beautiful hunting ranch is home to thousands of animals from over 50 different species.  You and your family may hand feed their giraffes, as well as view white buffalo, kangaroos, zebras, & much more free ranging on 18,000+ acres.

sounds amazing

Offline Just_Victor

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Re: In military collectibles, supply often falls short of demand
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2017, 07:59:27 pm »
https://www.drivetanks.com/

Texas, of course.

DriveTanks, located at the Ox Ranch, is the only location in the world where you can drive and shoot fully functional tanks, artillery, machine guns, and other weapons of war.  There are few experiences in life more exhilarating than shooting a Sherman tank’s 76mm cannon!  Your tank driving experience will include a FREE safari tour of the Ox Ranch.  This beautiful hunting ranch is home to thousands of animals from over 50 different species.  You and your family may hand feed their giraffes, as well as view white buffalo, kangaroos, zebras, & much more free ranging on 18,000+ acres.

The original M4, M4A2, and most of the other variants were 75mm.  Not that it seems like a big deal but the breach depth was a big difference.  The shell velocity was much lower on the early Sherman 75mm variants.  It was the Sherman Firefly that introduced the 3" round (76.2mm) to the Sherman platform.

But shooting either would be amazing.
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Offline Suppressed

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Re: In military collectibles, supply often falls short of demand
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2017, 08:32:55 pm »
The original M4, M4A2, and most of the other variants were 75mm.  Not that it seems like a big deal but the breach depth was a big difference.  The shell velocity was much lower on the early Sherman 75mm variants.  It was the Sherman Firefly that introduced the 3" round (76.2mm) to the Sherman platform.

But shooting either would be amazing.

Actually, the M4A2E8 had a 76 mm M1 gun.
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Oceander

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Re: In military collectibles, supply often falls short of demand
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2017, 08:40:57 pm »
Just to be the wet blanket: isn't shortness of supply one of the hallmarks of a collectible?

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: In military collectibles, supply often falls short of demand
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2017, 09:49:12 pm »
Just to be the wet blanket: isn't shortness of supply one of the hallmarks of a collectible?
Demand is the other. I can produce all sorts of one-off 'collectibles' that no one in their right mind would want.
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis