Chinese ships sail near disputed Japanese islands - CNN

[TomSea]

Chinese ships sail near disputed Japanese islands
By Brad Lendon, CNN
Updated 9:08 PM ET, Mon February 6, 2017

 (CNN)Three Chinese Coast Guard ships entered waters near a chain of islands claimed by both China and Japan in the East China Sea on Monday, according to authorities from both sides.

Japan controls the chain and calls them the Senkaku Islands, while China calls them the Diaoyu Islands.

The sailing comes just days after US Defense Secretary James Mattis reaffirmed America's commitment to defending Japan and its disputed islands.

Continued: http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/06/asia/china-japan-disputed-islands-intrusion/index.html

[geronl]

I just hope orange doesn't set off WW3 over uninhabited islands

[Just_Victor]

I just hope orange doesn't set off WW3 over uninhabited islands

The island are just a cluster of rocks.  Not just uninhabited, but probably uninhabitable.

The issue is the international recognition of "territorial waters," and who gets to control and exploit the resources they contain.

[thackney]

The island are just a cluster of rocks.  Not just uninhabited, but probably uninhabitable.

The issue is the international recognition of "territorial waters," and who gets to control and exploit the resources they contain.

Both sides claim history is on their side, although Japan is the only country ever known to have citizens living on the islands – for two decades last century. China’s claim is also slightly undermined by its timing, with the first objection to Japanese ownership claims lodged only after publication of a UN report locating deposits of oil and gas nearby.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/05/china-v-japan-new-global-flashpoint-senkaku-islands-ishigaki

...The issue is so pressing that when new US defence secretary James Mattis visited Tokyo last week, confirming America’s commitment to defend the islands was top of the foreign minister’s agenda.

“Secretary Mattis made clear that the Senkaku Islands are in the territories under the administration of Japan,” Fumio Kishida said after the meeting. China promptly responded with a warning that the American politician’s “wrong remarks” put Asia’s stability at risk....

[IsailedawayfromFR]

I just hope orange doesn't set off WW3 over uninhabited islands

What, you don't think that the Chinese may be a teeny-weeny responsible for setting off anything?

Your bias is so easy to detect.

[r9etb]

What, you don't think that the Chinese may be a teeny-weeny responsible for setting off anything?

Your bias is so easy to detect.

Yeah, but here's the deal. 

Is there anything in Trump's behavior (or those in his administration) so far to make you believe that they're able to think through the consequences of what they say and do?

[geronl]

Will Mattis and Trump go to war with Japan if it tried to seize the Dokdo Islands from the Republic of Korea?

[Oceander]

I just hope orange doesn't set off WW3 over uninhabited islands

I doubt very seriously that a dispute over these islands would lead to a full war, even if there was some shooting involved. 

[r9etb]

I doubt very seriously that a dispute over these islands would lead to a full war, even if there was some shooting involved.

On its own could it be a casus belli?  Not necessarily.  But in context, a lot of little things could in fact lead to bigger things. 

Note that these islands are not the only ones over which China is trying to exert its influence.  It's also "building" and arming islands in the South China Sea, the whole point of which is to establish a military sphere of influence in a economically and militarily important part of the ocean.

The basic theory seems to be little different from Japan's "Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere."  A Chinese policy of imperialism seems not out of the question.

[TomSea]

If something were to happen, one would think Japan or one of the others would lead on this before we would get involved. 

[r9etb]

If something were to happen, one would think Japan or one of the others would lead on this before we would get involved.

Lead with what?  We're the only country in the region with a navy big enough to oppose China in any serious way.

I think it's an unpleasant reality that we're returning to an era of Great Power geopolitics of a sort not seen since the early 1900s.  The US, China, Russia ... maybe the EU, and then that roiling mass of insanity called radical Islam. 

The Obama vacuum has offered opportunities for countries like China and Russia to exert control in military as well as economic terms.  Holding them at bay requires an opposing threat of force which, unless handled carefully, could escalate.

The idea of Trump being at the helm in such a time doesn't fill me with great confidence.

[thackney]

Lead with what?  We're the only country in the region with a navy big enough to oppose China in any serious way.

Sorry, China: Why the Japanese Navy is the Best in Asia
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/sorry-china-why-the-japanese-navy-the-best-asia-18056
October 16, 2016

The best navy in Asia has a total of 114 warships and 45,800 volunteer personnel. It has a large fleet of fast, powerful destroyers, thoroughly modern diesel-electric attack submarines, and amphibious ships that can haul tanks and other ground forces. It can hunt submarines, square off against invasion fleets, and shoot down enemy ballistic missiles. Despite all of that firepower, this is not in fact a navy at all, but an armed cohort of civil servants.

Technically, the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force is a “self-defense force” designed to overcome the country’s constitutional limits on armed forces. It is, ship for ship, the best navy in Asia.

The main component of the MSDF are its fleet of forty-six destroyers and frigates—more than that those fielded by the United Kingdom and France combined. Organized into escort flotillas, Japan’s tin-can navy is designed to defend the country from invasion, help retake Japanese territory and keep the sea-lanes open.

The most powerful of Japan’s surface combatants are the Kongo class of guided-missile destroyers. The four ships—Kongo, Kirishima, Myoko and Chokai—are all named after battleships and cruisers of the Imperial Japanese Navy, a practice once generally avoided but becoming more popular as the memory of World War II fades....

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Yeah, but here's the deal. 

Is there anything in Trump's behavior (or those in his administration) so far to make you believe that they're able to think through the consequences of what they say and do?

I don't take the deal.  When a bully becomes a bully, we all know there is only one way to deal with it.

Why do you think we put Mad Dog where he is, to just be spit on?

[skeeter]

Sorry, China: Why the Japanese Navy is the Best in Asia
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/sorry-china-why-the-japanese-navy-the-best-asia-18056
October 16, 2016

The best navy in Asia has a total of 114 warships and 45,800 volunteer personnel. It has a large fleet of fast, powerful destroyers, thoroughly modern diesel-electric attack submarines, and amphibious ships that can haul tanks and other ground forces. It can hunt submarines, square off against invasion fleets, and shoot down enemy ballistic missiles. Despite all of that firepower, this is not in fact a navy at all, but an armed cohort of civil servants.

Technically, the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force is a “self-defense force” designed to overcome the country’s constitutional limits on armed forces. It is, ship for ship, the best navy in Asia.

The main component of the MSDF are its fleet of forty-six destroyers and frigates—more than that those fielded by the United Kingdom and France combined. Organized into escort flotillas, Japan’s tin-can navy is designed to defend the country from invasion, help retake Japanese territory and keep the sea-lanes open.

The most powerful of Japan’s surface combatants are the Kongo class of guided-missile destroyers. The four ships—Kongo, Kirishima, Myoko and Chokai—are all named after battleships and cruisers of the Imperial Japanese Navy, a practice once generally avoided but becoming more popular as the memory of World War II fades....

Japan not only has the doctrine and a tradition in naval aviation & they pioneered the carrier task force concept. China is a newcomer with no tradition and untried doctrine. My guess is they wouldn't last very long in a naval engagement with Japan.

Japan could use a few more of those 'helicopter destroyers' though.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Lead with what?  We're the only country in the region with a navy big enough to oppose China in any serious way.

The history of China's navy is very recent.  True they have the ships but the abilities to use them effectively is the real talent. 

That takes time to develop.   They simply cannot compete with powers that have a long naval history such as Japan or Russia in that theater.

[Fishrrman]

I clicked through to the original article.

Those Japanese "Kongo" class destroyers look to be much more capable fighting machines than the stuff we've been putting out lately, such as the "Zumwalt"...

[geronl]

I clicked through to the original article.

Those Japanese "Kongo" class destroyers look to be much more capable fighting machines than the stuff we've been putting out lately, such as the "Zumwalt"...

or those thin-skinned ships with the gun on the nose and a helicopter parked on the butt.