Filling up with natural gas - Vehicles running on clean fuel should not run in the shade of electric

[IsailedawayfromFR]

During last year’s presidential campaign, Donald Trump showed his commitment to America’s energy future and a belief in its innovative spirit.
Appointing Scott Pruitt and Rick Perry to top energy-related posts in his Cabinet underscores his commitment to meeting that pledge, because these experts already know that clean-burning natural gas is a true transportation innovation. The natural gas vehicle industry is bullish on these choices, and strongly encourages the Senate to confirm them soon.
Mr. Pruitt, as attorney general of Oklahoma, saw firsthand how quickly natural gas became so popular that it outpaced other forms of energy. He’ll be a great administrator for the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).
Under Gov. Perry’s leadership, Texas drove development of the wind, solar and natural gas industries. He signed legislation creating the “Texas Triangle,” which established a natural gas vehicle clean transportation corridor between the major population centers in the state. Air quality has improved and today this corridor is the backbone of a strong natural gas vehicle industry. Mr. Perry knows how to streamline decision-making and is an excellent choice as energy secretary.

One can witness this same kind of forward thinking and innovation at the Cummins Engine Plant in Rocky Mount, N.C. It’s where the revolutionary Cummins Westport “Near Zero” natural gas engine is built, which reduces harmful nitrogen oxide emissions by 90 percent from the current EPA standard. No other transportation fuel delivers such performance.
And millions more Americans will benefit as cities across the United States keep turning to clean-burning natural gas for public transportation. Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority, for example, is using heavy-duty, American-made, natural gas engines to power buses that are among the cleanest in the world.

Los Angeles is hardly alone. Nearly a quarter of U.S. public transit buses are using natural gas and almost 60 percent of all new waste and recycling trucks purchased each year now run on clean-burning natural gas.
Despite this true innovation in transportation and its growing use, the previous administration’s narrow focus on electric vehicles skewed what should have been a level playing field. Case in point:
EPA’s current regulations require a reduction in fuel use and greenhouse gas emissions. Electric vehicles get outsized credit for air pollution reductions despite the upstream emissions that electricity production creates.
Consumers get a hefty tax credit to buy an electric car but they don’t get one to buy a natural gas vehicle. A more balanced tax code would allow the market to work by encouraging manufacturers to produce natural gas vehicles and accelerate sales.
The EPA’s Diesel Emission Reduction Act (DERA) provides funding for states to retrofit and replace older, dirtier diesel vehicles with up to 50 percent off the sticker price. But most of the funding goes to buying new diesel trucks. Future funding should allocate a percentage of monies to purchase the latest natural gas engines, thereby strengthening the intent of the program by putting the cleanest heavy-duty vehicles on the road.
Clean-burning natural gas is an underutilized asset in the America economy. Legislation and policies that encourage increased investment in putting more natural gas into transportation uses — vehicles, marine and rail — will accelerate job growth, enhance national security and significantly lower emissions. There are plenty of ways to achieve these goals.
Congress should, for example, extend the 50-cent per gasoline gallon equivalent tax credit for natural gas used in transportation for five years. The credit helps offset the cost of owning and operating a natural gas vehicle while encouraging more fleets to adopt the technology. A one-time, five-year extension will provide small businesses with the certainty they need to make long-term investments that will create more jobs and put the cleanest trucks on the road.
We hope the new administration will also consider strengthening portions of the Renewable Fuel Standard program to leverage the potential of renewable natural gas. This American fuel has the lowest emissions among transportation fuels by converting existing waste streams into fuel.
Our hope is that the new administration and Congress will create a fair environment that will allow the full benefits of natural gas vehicles and the growing use of natural gas in marine applications to truly shine as we work together to reach our nation’s full potential.
Thank you, Mr. President, for both choices. Like you, we know America can be a leader, not a laggard, in leveraging clean-burning natural gas and the innovation it drives. These nominations signal you are firmly behind your pledge to make American great again by unleashing the full potential of America’s domestic energy resources.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jan/31/filling-natural-gas/

Watch natural gas strengthen as emphasis is placed on it to provide more of our energy needs under this administration.
It will done at the expense of the unprofitable solar, wind and biofuels industries.

I see transportation, power generation, more pipelines being built.

Cheaper, clean and NO subsidies.

And do we have an abundant supply of it.

Good riddance.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

"Consumers get a hefty tax credit to buy an electric car but they don’t get one to buy a natural gas vehicle. A more balanced tax code would allow the market to work by encouraging manufacturers to produce natural gas vehicles and accelerate sales."

"The EPA’s Diesel Emission Reduction Act (DERA) provides funding for states to retrofit and replace older, dirtier diesel vehicles with up to 50 percent off the sticker price. But most of the funding goes to buying new diesel trucks. Future funding should allocate a percentage of monies to purchase the latest natural gas engines"

"Congress should, for example, extend the 50-cent per gasoline gallon equivalent tax credit for natural gas used in transportation for five years. The credit helps offset the cost of owning and operating a natural gas vehicle while encouraging more fleets to adopt the technology. A one-time, five-year extension"

"We hope the new administration will also consider strengthening portions of the Renewable Fuel Standard program to leverage the potential of renewable natural gas"

I'd like to see the gov't get out of the way and let the market work.  This guy is simply advocating for their "fair share" of big gov't.

[endicom]

I'd like to see the gov't get out of the way and let the market work.  This guy is simply advocating for their "fair share" of big gov't.

Yes, let the marketplace sort it out.

Encouraging or forcing the use of natural gas could double or quadruple usage. Then you might read of 'peak gas' and that could be for real.

[thackney]

Yes, let the marketplace sort it out.

Encouraging or forcing the use of natural gas could double or quadruple usage. Then you might read of 'peak gas' and that could be for real.

Double yes, quadruple no.

If every drop of crude oil and associated refined products was replaced with Natural Gas, our Natural Gas Usage would be ~125% greater.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

I'd like to see the gov't get out of the way and let the market work.  This guy is simply advocating for their "fair share" of big gov't.

Yes, it is the T. Boone strategy.

Instead, I think if the electric and renewables subsidies drift away, the market will overwhelmingly pursue natural gas ventures.

As an example, were you aware that virtually all the wind power generation plants have a backup generator using natural gas? 

Instead of being idled, these plants could be quickly turned on to provide power needs instead of the inefficient and expensive wind power.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Double yes, quadruple no.

If every drop of crude oil and associated refined products was replaced with Natural Gas, our Natural Gas Usage would be ~125% greater.

that exports arm is a shot in the arm for this country's improved trade balance.

The footnote says some are biofuels.  I was aware we imported some but not export.

[thackney]

As an example, were you aware that virtually all the wind power generation plants have a backup generator using natural gas? 

Instead of being idled, these plants could be quickly turned on to provide power needs instead of the inefficient and expensive wind power.

The wind generation "plants" themselves do not have backup generation for when the wind doesn't blow.  The utility grid entity like ERCOT requires balancing of power available and demands.  Those peaker units that otherwise would only run at the hot summer peak are also available for times when the wind doesn't blow.

[thackney]

that exports arm is a shot in the arm for this country's improved trade balance.

The footnote says some are biofuels.  I was aware we imported some but not export.

We are a net exporter.

U.S. Exports of Fuel Ethanol
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=M_EPOOXE_EEX_NUS-Z00_MBBLD&f=M

U.S. Imports of Fuel Ethanol
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MFEIMUS2&f=M

[Joe Wooten]

the electric and renewables subsidies drift away,

Drift away hell! Cut them off suddenly, right now! No more wasting taxpayer money on pie-in-the-sky crap.

[Frank Cannon]

We've had propane/NG cars around for at least 30 years and no one was interested.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

The wind generation "plants" themselves do not have backup generation for when the wind doesn't blow.  The utility grid entity like ERCOT requires balancing of power available and demands.  Those peaker units that otherwise would only run at the hot summer peak are also available for times when the wind doesn't blow.

Any statistics on how often the peak shavers are run?

[Elderberry]

We've had propane/NG cars around for at least 30 years and no one was interested.

My jeep is dual fuel and I run it more on propane than gas. I'm thinking of converting my 56 3/4 ton as well.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

My jeep is dual fuel and I run it more on propane than gas. I'm thinking of converting my 56 3/4 ton as well.

I applaud you driving that 56

What a man.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

@thackney

FYI.... I spoke with a guy who works for Halliburton as we were stopping for gas in Pecos, TX on our way to the Tucson Gem and Mineral Show.  He didn't name the company, but said there were 100 rigs in that area to be moved in shortly.  Also, he heard there was 1800 wells to be drilled in the Balmorhea area.  This pretty well confirms what I'm seeing.  Things are picking up.  :o)

It is a new budget year for the oil companies so they will spend their budget early in year.

If prices do not climb, don't expect those rigs to stay drilling, am afraid.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Drift away hell! Cut them off suddenly, right now! No more wasting taxpayer money on pie-in-the-sky crap.

My bad.  I should have said WHEN they cease,

[thackney]

We've had propane/NG cars around for at least 30 years and no one was interested.

Maybe you have noticed, technology in vehicles including engines and performance, has changed a bit in thirty years.

[Smokin Joe]

We've had propane/NG cars around for at least 30 years and no one was interested.

The first company I worked for in the oil patch had a fleet of Chevrolet 'heavy' half-ton pickups which ran on either gasoline or propane. Before you were issued a company truck you had to learn to fuel your own. It was great, because you could go over 500 miles on the tank of propane and still have the full gas tank to drive on. The only drawback was that you had to start on gasoline and warm the engine up when it was below -30 out, or you took a chance on ruining the engine because the propane would not vaporize. The biggest plus of the system was that the engines ran cleaner than the average carburetted engine and we were getting 150K or more out of small block Chevys (350 CI) back in the late 1970s before they needed to be torn down, when 100K was considered to be the usual lifespan of those engines.

[Elderberry]

I applaud you driving that 56

My jeep is a 53.

[Elderberry]

You can also run diesels "Dual Fuel" on natural gas.

"Clean Air Power designs, develops and delivers Dual-FuelTM and second generation MicroPilot
engine systems to enable heavy-duty, compression-ignited engines to run on natural gas mixed with small quantities of diesel to act as the “spark” that ignites the gas. "

http://www.cleanairpower.com/about.html

[IsailedawayfromFR]

My jeep is a 53.

Am curious.  Is the 'Elderberry' juice keeping you going?

My wife takes it.

[Elderberry]

Am curious.  Is the 'Elderberry' juice keeping you going?

My wife takes it.

Only after it's fermented

[Frank Cannon]

You can also run diesels "Dual Fuel" on natural gas.

"Clean Air Power designs, develops and delivers Dual-FuelTM and second generation MicroPilot
engine systems to enable heavy-duty, compression-ignited engines to run on natural gas mixed with small quantities of diesel to act as the “spark” that ignites the gas. "

http://www.cleanairpower.com/about.html

Wouldn't it be a Tri-Fuel^TM then?

[Elderberry]

Wouldn't it be a Tri-Fuel^TM then?

Just natural gas and diesel.

[Joe Wooten]

Any statistics on how often the peak shavers are run?

Almost daily

[Joe Wooten]

The first company I worked for in the oil patch had a fleet of Chevrolet 'heavy' half-ton pickups which ran on either gasoline or propane. Before you were issued a company truck you had to learn to fuel your own. It was great, because you could go over 500 miles on the tank of propane and still have the full gas tank to drive on. The only drawback was that you had to start on gasoline and warm the engine up when it was below -30 out, or you took a chance on ruining the engine because the propane would not vaporize. The biggest plus of the system was that the engines ran cleaner than the average carburetted engine and we were getting 150K or more out of small block Chevys (350 CI) back in the late 1970s before they needed to be torn down, when 100K was considered to be the usual lifespan of those engines.

Back in the late 60's and early 70's, damn near every farmer in Glasscock County (Tx) converted their pickups and farm trucks to run on propane, some even had converted their cars. Most would run a tank of gasoline for every 2 tanks of propane because the dealer mechanics had warned everyone to run some gasoline through to keep the piston rings from wearing too much. When we rode in the back of the pickup, the propane tank, which was mounted in the bed just behind the cab, made a great bench to sit on, especially in the summer, as the gas expanded and cooled the tank as it was used.

After the 1973 embargo and the rising cost of propane/butane due to the fact it is made from natural gas, which at the time was much scarcer than oil, most dropped the conversion of their new vehicles. Most of them went diesel.