Author Topic: Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service Pistol  (Read 6014 times)

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Offline Lando Lincoln

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Re: Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service Pistol
« Reply #50 on: January 25, 2017, 08:17:49 pm »
I agree about the .22--it will do the job.

Not that I know anything about this mind you, but yes, yes it will. 
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service Pistol
« Reply #51 on: January 25, 2017, 08:25:26 pm »
Quote
I was in the military when they took our M-14 and gave us a plastic gun. 

So was I. I didn't even know such a thing existed as an AR-15 (what it was called at first) until I got to the Special Warfare Center and  was issued one. The conventional army support units were still being issued M-14's as late as 1969 in VN. Maybe even later,for all I know.

Quote
The plastic gun is better for spray and pray operations.  For anything other than that I prefer the M-14 hands down!

Yes,and no. The M-16 was far superior tactically in the jungles because it was shorter,lighter,and half the time you couldn't see what you were shooting at anyhow,even if it was 15 feet away. That's where the "spray and pray" came in handy. MOST troops could do a better job of controlling a M-16 on full auto than a M-14,and given that the savings in ammo weight meant the typical troop could carry more 5.56 rounds than he could 7.62 rounds made the M-16 the winner. The hyper-velocity (compared to the 7.62 round) also mean horrendous wounds to those hit by the round because a lot of the rounds fired would be tumbling when they hit due to being deflected by hitting tree limbs or twigs firest.

If I am facing an enemy in the Great Dismal Swamp,I want a M4. If I am facing an enemy in Kansas,I want a M-14 if I can't find a BAR. I can get a serious case of the warm and fuzzies if I have targets in the open and a good BAR.


« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 08:25:57 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service Pistol
« Reply #52 on: January 25, 2017, 08:30:36 pm »
I have heard old old stories from old old timers who brought down deer with a .22 on a regular basis, where you hit is a huge part of whether you bring the critter down and how far you have to hike after it when you do.

All true!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Bigun

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Re: Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service Pistol
« Reply #53 on: January 25, 2017, 08:36:29 pm »
So was I. I didn't even know such a thing existed as an AR-15 (what it was called at first) until I got to the Special Warfare Center and  was issued one. The conventional army support units were still being issued M-14's as late as 1969 in VN. Maybe even later,for all I know.

Yes,and no. The M-16 was far superior tactically in the jungles because it was shorter,lighter,and half the time you couldn't see what you were shooting at anyhow,even if it was 15 feet away. That's where the "spray and pray" came in handy. MOST troops could do a better job of controlling a M-16 on full auto than a M-14,and given that the savings in ammo weight meant the typical troop could carry more 5.56 rounds than he could 7.62 rounds made the M-16 the winner. The hyper-velocity (compared to the 7.62 round) also mean horrendous wounds to those hit by the round because a lot of the rounds fired would be tumbling when they hit due to being deflected by hitting tree limbs or twigs firest.

If I am facing an enemy in the Great Dismal Swamp,I want a M4. If I am facing an enemy in Kansas,I want a M-14 if I can't find a BAR. I can get a serious case of the warm and fuzzies if I have targets in the open and a good BAR.


I don't think there is a whole lot of daylight between what I said and what you said but I will agree with you anyway!  BTW: My personal side arm in Vietnam was a sawed off double barrel 12 gauge shotgun.  It worked wonders at 15 feet in the jungle when you couldn't see what you were shooting at!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service Pistol
« Reply #54 on: January 25, 2017, 08:52:31 pm »
@sneakypete

That's great, you carry whatever your comfortable with. Personally I have seen way too many people having to clear a F2E or F2F with their 1911 to ever carry one. And that doesn't even begin to cover the other disadvantages, like the limited capacity magazine. IDPA is all about using stanndard self defense weapons, so these wouldn't be some fancy modified race guns.

I'd point out that a lot of other Spec. Ops units don't use the 1911, and prefer something else.  Or, they leave it up to each member of the unit.  In any case, all that proves is that even the most highly trained people don't share the same opinion regarding weapons.  And a lot of the spec ops units have in-house gunsmiths who will specially tune/modify their weapons.  That's not the case with most line units.




Offline EC

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Re: Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service Pistol
« Reply #55 on: January 25, 2017, 08:59:41 pm »
LOL, I can't argue with you cause when you are right you are right.

I've got few in the safe that I need to get a little practice on. I used to go to the range every 3 or 4 months back in the day. Now not so much. However with the gun grabbers out of power it might be safe to by ammo and go to the range again.

Besides - the range is always fun.  :laugh:
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Offline Elderberry

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Re: Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service Pistol
« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2017, 09:47:15 pm »
I agree about the .22--it will do the job.
But it sure limits your options to brain, spine, and heart.  You can forget about a "boiler room" shot that only penetrates the lungs. You may be lucky, if you're a good tracker,  to find where he settles down, to finish him off, with another shot. I read about a polar bear hunt, where upon examination of the bear they shot, they found a .22 bullet in the roof of its mouth that didn't penetrate to the brain. It sucked to be that Eskimo.

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service Pistol
« Reply #57 on: January 25, 2017, 11:12:56 pm »
But it sure limits your options to brain, spine, and heart.  You can forget about a "boiler room" shot that only penetrates the lungs. You may be lucky, if you're a good tracker,  to find where he settles down, to finish him off, with another shot. I read about a polar bear hunt, where upon examination of the bear they shot, they found a .22 bullet in the roof of its mouth that didn't penetrate to the brain. It sucked to be that Eskimo.
Somedays you get the bear and other days...
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service Pistol
« Reply #58 on: January 26, 2017, 12:15:20 am »
Quote
I'd point out that a lot of other Spec. Ops units don't use the 1911, and prefer something else.
 

Last I heard,Delta shooters all carry a custom-built variant of the 1911,but built up to take loads that would beat a stock 1911 into scrap.

Other Delta operators carry whatever they think is best for whatever mission it is they are sent on. It's a matter of the right tool for the job,but I am not aware of ANY job where a 9mm is preferable to a 45ACP. ESPECIALLY not when a suppressor is used.

I do think the SEALS carry 9mm's,but let's face it,they are sailors and nobody on the planet is more anal than an Admiral,so they might not even have the option to carry anything else.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 12:16:08 am by sneakypete »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service Pistol
« Reply #59 on: January 26, 2017, 01:05:15 am »
But it sure limits your options to brain, spine, and heart.  You can forget about a "boiler room" shot that only penetrates the lungs. You may be lucky, if you're a good tracker,  to find where he settles down, to finish him off, with another shot. I read about a polar bear hunt, where upon examination of the bear they shot, they found a .22 bullet in the roof of its mouth that didn't penetrate to the brain. It sucked to be that Eskimo.
Well, no one here is hunting polar bears. Likely that came from a pistol as a final act of desperate defense or an attempt to dissuade the bear form attacking. Lots of trappers carry .22 pistols.

On a deer, lung shots (especially with a small entrance wound) are a bitch to track in grasslands. A larger caliber through and through can be a challenge, too, though at least there is a little more blood trail. Heart? I have seen whitetail deer go 100+ yards with its heart in three pieces (12 ga. rifled slug), although it laid down a trail a blind man could follow. The small entrance wound (and exit wound unlikely with a .22) again, makes tracking harder.

Best target with a small caliber arm is a high neck shot. Either it hits the spine and drops it right there, takes out the bleeders in the neck (a little low, but easier tracking), or it misses. Not a long distance shot, but within 50 yards, and the deer standing still, walking slowly, or feeding. Getting that opening to shoot requires either a lot of luck, or a thorough knowledge of the area, where the deer move, when they move, and the ability to stay quiet in a decent hide, much like bowhunting, and ideally at about the same range.
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Offline Elderberry

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Re: Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service Pistol
« Reply #60 on: January 26, 2017, 02:52:21 am »
Myself, I prefer the "boiler room" shot just behind the front leg. And yes, they all run. Most less than 25 yards. My longest around 50 yds. There is less meat damage than the neck shot.
I shot 3 one evening with  .243 90gr Nosler Ballistic tips. As each one ran, I noted the direction and where I last saw him. After the 3rd, My limit, I looked for them and they were not much farther than where I last saw them. There was no blood trail. None of those bullets exited. Once I was hunting flooded timber and took the same shot, this time with a 8mm Mauser 180 gr.
I was thinking how can I track in 10 in of water. No problem. With every exhalation, that deer painted all the weed tops with a 3 foot blood circle.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service Pistol
« Reply #61 on: January 26, 2017, 04:42:01 am »
Myself, I prefer the "boiler room" shot just behind the front leg. And yes, they all run. Most less than 25 yards. My longest around 50 yds. There is less meat damage than the neck shot.
I shot 3 one evening with  .243 90gr Nosler Ballistic tips. As each one ran, I noted the direction and where I last saw him. After the 3rd, My limit, I looked for them and they were not much farther than where I last saw them. There was no blood trail. None of those bullets exited. Once I was hunting flooded timber and took the same shot, this time with a 8mm Mauser 180 gr.
I was thinking how can I track in 10 in of water. No problem. With every exhalation, that deer painted all the weed tops with a 3 foot blood circle.
We were discussing the venerable .22LR as a bambi getter. If I'm shooting my 30.06 I'll put a 180 gr core-lokt through the ribs right behind the point of the shoulder on a standing deer, center of the brisket head-on, and I admit to having taken a 'Texas heart shot', once, seeking to send one up a natural orifice (it worked, but field dressing it was unpleasant).
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 04:44:45 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis