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Author Topic: WHY LIBERAL STATES WON AMERICA’S TAX EXPERIMENT - The conservative formula is wrong.  (Read 2750 times)

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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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WHY LIBERAL STATES WON AMERICA’S TAX EXPERIMENT - The conservative formula is wrong.
« on: December 30, 2016, 03:08:52 am »
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For years, conservatives have been telling us that a healthy business-friendly economy depends on low taxes, few regulations, and low wages. Are they right?

We’ve had an experiment going on here in the United States that provides an answer.

At the one end of the scale are Kansas and Texas, with among the nation’s lowest taxes, least regulations, and lowest wages.

At the other end is California, featuring among the nation’s highest taxes, especially on the wealthy; lots of regulations, particularly when it comes to the environment; and high wages.

So according to conservative doctrine, Kansas and Texas ought to be booming, and California ought to be in the pits.

Actually, it’s just the opposite. For years now, Kansas’s rate of economic growth has been the worst in the nation. Last year its economy actually shrank.  Texas hasn’t been doing all that much better. Its rate of job growth has been below the national average. Retail sales are way down. The value of Texas exports has been dropping.

But what about so-called over-taxed, over-regulated, high-wage California? California leads the nation in the rate of economic growth — more than twice the national average. In other words, conservatives have it exactly backwards.

So why are Kansas and Texas doing so badly? And California so well?

Because taxes enable states to invest in their people – their education and skill-training, great research universities that spawn new industries and attract talented innovators and inventors worldwide, and modern infrastructure.

That’s why California is the world center of high-tech, entertainment, and venture capital.

Kansas and Texas haven’t been investing nearly to the same extent.

California also provides services to a diverse population including many who are attracted to California because of its opportunities.

And California’s regulations protect the public health and the state’s natural beauty, which also draws people to the state – including talented people who could settle anywhere.

Wages are high in California because the economy is growing so fast employers have to pay more for workers. And that’s not a bad thing. After all, the goal isn’t just growth. It’s a high standard of living.

Now in fairness, Texas’s problems are also linked to the oil bust. But that’s really no excuse because Texas has failed to diversify its economy. And here again, it hasn’t made adequate investments.

California is far from perfect. A housing shortage has been driving rents and home prices into the stratosphere. And roads are clogged. Much more needs to be done.

But overall, the contrast is clear. Economic success depends on tax revenues that go into public investments, and regulations that protect the environment and public health. And true economic success results in high wages.
http://mckitterick.tumblr.com/post/154589538735

Robert Reich predictably wants everyone to go the way of California - high taxes so the public can 'invest' into its people.

I call it Communism, and I say a big fat NO.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: WHY LIBERAL STATES WON AMERICA’S TAX EXPERIMENT - The conservative formula is wrong.
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2016, 04:38:42 am »
Consider this description comes at a time when Oil prices have crashed, the market is sated, and oil and service companies (and hosts of service and support companies) are trimming staff.

Hmmmm. That might have an effect. How far in debt are Texas and Kansas?

I bet put together they don't come anywhere close to the debt and unfunded liabilities California has. Livin' large is heady stuff, especially on credit.
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: WHY LIBERAL STATES WON AMERICA’S TAX EXPERIMENT - The conservative formula is wrong.
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2016, 05:18:26 am »
California is consistently ranked poorly for fiscal solvency. Currently it is 44th out of the 50 states and Puerto Rico. The only thing mildly keeping it alive is a tech bubble which will pop. They have no water because of poor management and even Hollywood is moving out because it is too expensive to make movies there.

https://www.mercatus.org/statefiscalrankings/california

Housing prices are also in a bubble now. The wages in CA are high because the cost of living is outrageous. This filthy midget Riech knows that and is being disingenuous in his argument....in other words he is a liar.
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Offline DB

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Re: WHY LIBERAL STATES WON AMERICA’S TAX EXPERIMENT - The conservative formula is wrong.
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2016, 05:54:38 am »
We'll see just how long California's latest tech bubble continues. Funny, the bay area was the tech hub of the country back in the 80's too without all the taxes, regulation and debt.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: WHY LIBERAL STATES WON AMERICA’S TAX EXPERIMENT - The conservative formula is wrong.
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2016, 05:55:58 am »
Texas is doing poorly?  Wow, who knew?
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: WHY LIBERAL STATES WON AMERICA’S TAX EXPERIMENT - The conservative formula is wrong.
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2016, 06:28:02 am »
Quote from: Sanguine on December 30, 2016, 05:55:58 am
Texas is doing poorly?  Wow, who knew?
They are just saying that because in California you can shell out 750K for a house that's $75K in Texas.
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How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

geronl

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Re: WHY LIBERAL STATES WON AMERICA’S TAX EXPERIMENT - The conservative formula is wrong.
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2016, 06:31:28 am »
people being allowed to keep more of their own  money is the win
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: WHY LIBERAL STATES WON AMERICA’S TAX EXPERIMENT - The conservative formula is wrong.
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2016, 06:52:40 am »
Quote from: geronl on December 30, 2016, 06:31:28 am
people being allowed to keep more of their own  money is the win
Yes!
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How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Sanguine

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Re: WHY LIBERAL STATES WON AMERICA’S TAX EXPERIMENT - The conservative formula is wrong.
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2016, 04:09:48 pm »
Quote from: Smokin Joe on December 30, 2016, 06:28:02 am
They are just saying that because in California you can shell out 750K for a house that's $75K in Texas.

Must be.  I see lots of CA plates on the way into work every day.  Maybe they're working here and sending $ to CA?
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: WHY LIBERAL STATES WON AMERICA’S TAX EXPERIMENT - The conservative formula is wrong.
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2016, 04:21:08 pm »
Quote from: Sanguine on December 30, 2016, 04:09:48 pm
Must be.  I see lots of CA plates on the way into work every day.  Maybe they're working here and sending $ to CA?

...which would make California a slightly richer version of Mexico?  That wall between CA and AZ is looking better by the day.
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Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: WHY LIBERAL STATES WON AMERICA’S TAX EXPERIMENT - The conservative formula is wrong.
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2016, 04:25:10 pm »
If California is so great why is everybody fleeing like the state is on fire?  :whistle:

Wages are useless if you can't get a job.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: WHY LIBERAL STATES WON AMERICA’S TAX EXPERIMENT - The conservative formula is wrong.
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2016, 04:35:38 pm »
Quote from: Idaho_Cowboy on December 30, 2016, 04:25:10 pm
If California is so great why is everybody fleeing like the state is on fire?  :whistle:

Wages are useless if you can't get a job.

They're also useless if the cost of everything is driven so high.   
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For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline andy58-in-nh

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Re: WHY LIBERAL STATES WON AMERICA’S TAX EXPERIMENT - The conservative formula is wrong.
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2016, 04:37:43 pm »
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Offline INVAR

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Re: WHY LIBERAL STATES WON AMERICA’S TAX EXPERIMENT - The conservative formula is wrong.
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2016, 04:42:03 pm »
This nauseating pile of bovine excrement crawling with maggots is from Robert B. Reich.

It would be the equivalent of giving any gravitas to an article written by Fidel Castro on why Communism won over Capitalism's experiment.
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Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: WHY LIBERAL STATES WON AMERICA’S TAX EXPERIMENT - The conservative formula is wrong.
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2016, 04:42:04 pm »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on December 30, 2016, 04:35:38 pm
They're also useless if the cost of everything is driven so high.
Yep. The people clearly spoke regarding state legislatures and governorships and they threw the democrats out. Clearly, the nation is not convinced that the Democrats are better at running their states.
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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: WHY LIBERAL STATES WON AMERICA’S TAX EXPERIMENT - The conservative formula is wrong.
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2016, 04:46:56 pm »
Once again, people vote with their feet. What are the statistics like for people moving into and out of these states?
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: WHY LIBERAL STATES WON AMERICA’S TAX EXPERIMENT - The conservative formula is wrong.
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2016, 05:19:14 pm »
Quote from: Weird Tolkienish Figure on December 30, 2016, 04:46:56 pm
Once again, people vote with their feet. What are the statistics like for people moving into and out of these states?

I've found the easiest way to check is ask U-Haul how much one-way rentals are.  Renting one-way from CA to just about anywhere carries a significant "Destination Fee," which is how much it costs them to get the vehicle back to California.
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: WHY LIBERAL STATES WON AMERICA’S TAX EXPERIMENT - The conservative formula is wrong.
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2016, 05:52:47 pm »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on December 30, 2016, 05:19:14 pm
I've found the easiest way to check is ask U-Haul how much one-way rentals are.  Renting one-way from CA to just about anywhere carries a significant "Destination Fee," which is how much it costs them to get the vehicle back to California.
A very good experiment.

Got online to the Uhaul site and rented a 15' truck one way from Los Angeles to Dallas, then repeated this for the one way from Dallas to Los Angeles.

Here's the result:

Los Angeles to Dallas - $1,626.00 all-in

Dallas to Los Angeles - $899.00 all-in.

It is a no-brainer that people are getting the hell out of that hellhole of CA.
@Cyber Liberty
« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 05:53:23 pm by IsailedawayfromFR »
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: WHY LIBERAL STATES WON AMERICA’S TAX EXPERIMENT - The conservative formula is wrong.
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2016, 05:57:21 pm »
Quote from: IsailedawayfromFR on December 30, 2016, 05:52:47 pm
A very good experiment.

Got online to the Uhaul site and rented a 15' truck one way from Los Angeles to Dallas, then repeated this for the one way from Dallas to Los Angeles.

Here's the result:

Los Angeles to Dallas - $1,626.00 all-in

Dallas to Los Angeles - $899.00 all-in.

It is a no-brainer that people are getting the hell out of that hellhole of CA.
@Cyber Liberty

Whoa!  I knew there would be a difference....
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For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: WHY LIBERAL STATES WON AMERICA’S TAX EXPERIMENT - The conservative formula is wrong.
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2016, 06:23:03 pm »
They never account for the debt these states are running up. It's all fun and games till you can't pay the debt anymore.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: WHY LIBERAL STATES WON AMERICA’S TAX EXPERIMENT - The conservative formula is wrong.
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2016, 06:30:58 pm »
Quote from: Free Vulcan on December 30, 2016, 06:23:03 pm
They never account for the debt these states are running up. It's all fun and games till you can't pay the debt anymore.

Not to worry, Moonbeam promises to stiff the creditors.  What they haven't figured out yet is they are the holders of the bonds.  It's going to be fun when Californians start eating their own feet.
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For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:
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