Author Topic: .22 LR for Self-Defense?  (Read 3511 times)

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Offline txradioguy

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.22 LR for Self-Defense?
« on: December 28, 2016, 01:44:55 am »
Why would anyone even consider the .22 LR for self-defense? Using the pipsqueak rounds when your life hangs in the balance may seem similar to the "Charge of the Light Brigade," taking the approach that, "Theirs not to reason why. Theirs but to do and die." That kind of thinking is unacceptable.

The fact is, .22 LR is, will and has been used extensively for self-defense—probably more often than you think. Rifles and handguns chambered for the rimfire cartridge are affordable, compact and the most common of all firearms. They have been the gun behind the door in American households for more than a century. They're easy to shoot, don't make a lot of noise and don't cost an arm and a leg to feed.

Why are they often used for self-defense? Well, why do you pick your nose with your finger? It's convenient at the time.

A .22 LR is the only gun some people own. That doesn't mean it's the most appropriate. I've driven nails with a crescent wrench and smashed my finger, used a knife as a pry bar and cut myself and even tried to move snow with a dirt shovel and been down in the back for a week. We can all agree there's almost always a better choice for self-defense. The question is: When, if ever, is the .22 LR a good choice and just how effective is it?

I asked Ed Head, operations manager at Gunsite, for his opinion. He said, "Since the first rule of gunfighting is to have a gun, any gun is better than none at all. The little .22 LR may actually be better than some larger calibers, depending upon the ammunition selected. For example, I would think a high-velocity .22 cartridge like the Stinger might be a better choice than a .25 ACP loaded with FMJ rounds."

According to the book "Stopping Power, a Practical Analysis of the Latest Handgun Ammunition," by Evan Marshall and Ed Sanow, Head is right. Marshall and Sanow found .22 LR Stinger ammunition was 58 percent more effective at producing one-shot stops than any of the FMJ .25 Auto loads.

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2010/10/26/22-lr-for-self-defense/
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 01:45:54 am by txradioguy »
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Offline Taxcontrol

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Re: .22 LR for Self-Defense?
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2016, 02:43:35 am »
5 rules of a gun fight:

1) gun beats no gun
2) a hit beats a miss
3) fast beats slow
4) big holes beat small holes
5) two holes beat one hole

Offline endicom

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Re: .22 LR for Self-Defense?
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2016, 03:11:35 am »
Long ago, a gun writer tested a .357 snubby in conditions like those in a house and at night. He did so because he, and others, had long recommended that gun as a home defense weapon while neither he nor they had ever used that weapon under those conditions.

The first shot temporarily blinded and deafened him, making him flinch on subsequent shots.

There's a lot more to consider than how big a hole your bullet can make.



 

Offline Meldrew

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Re: .22 LR for Self-Defense?
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2016, 03:29:58 am »
There's a lot more to consider than how big a hole your bullet can make.

Hard to say it much better than that.  Can't tell you how many women come in with their new snubbies that their well-intentioned but ignorant husbands/BF's recommend that shoot it once and you never see them again.  Nice 22 like a Buckmark would have changed that. 

Offline montanajoe

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Re: .22 LR for Self-Defense?
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2016, 03:46:39 am »
Back in my cab driving days I used to carry a Colt 1911 A-1 Rail, it had a capacity of 12 rounds., also had a 2 shot derringer that I'd sometimes use. With the derringer I was not concerned with how big a hole I could make but the ability to conceal it in my palm and inflict a mortal wound at very close range...
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 03:47:31 am by montanajoe »

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: .22 LR for Self-Defense?
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2016, 03:55:40 am »
22 are junk for self defense except maybe in the home. When the shit hits the fan you want something that will screw up your attacker because the odds of you getting off a kill shot in a high stress situation are low. In a house the 22 might be ideal because if you miss, you don't want the round blowing through drywall walls into someone in another room. I have light loads in the pieces I have sprinkled around the house just for that reason. Outside on the streets I carry a cannon.

Offline driftdiver

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Re: .22 LR for Self-Defense?
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2016, 03:57:50 am »
Show me someone who WANTS to get shot with a .22.    Show me a person who will take the time to determine what caliber the gun is when lead starts flying their way.

Sure a bigger gun will stop a drug crazed lunatic faster.   If you can't handle a bigger gun then a .22 is better then no gun.
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Online roamer_1

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Re: .22 LR for Self-Defense?
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2016, 04:05:55 am »
Back in my cab driving days I used to carry a Colt 1911 A-1 Rail, it had a capacity of 12 rounds., also had a 2 shot derringer that I'd sometimes use. With the derringer I was not concerned with how big a hole I could make but the ability to conceal it in my palm and inflict a mortal wound at very close range...

And it only takes one, right?

on a bet, if I absolutely HAD to make a shot, I reckon my hand would go to my old gopher gun... a Remington semi-auto .22LR rifle. Open sights and all, and me with eyesight going... I'd betcha I can still bark a squirrel with that old girl...  I can drill a dime with that thing, as far out as I can see - and an eye is bigger than a dime, jussayin.

Offline endicom

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Re: .22 LR for Self-Defense?
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2016, 04:10:41 am »
Hard to say it much better than that.  Can't tell you how many women come in with their new snubbies that their well-intentioned but ignorant husbands/BF's recommend that shoot it once and you never see them again.  Nice 22 like a Buckmark would have changed that.

I should say up front that I've never owned a handgun.

The Kel-Tec PMR-30 looks interesting. The biggest knock on it seems to be the hellacious muzzle flash and some ammo made for pistols should cure that.

Offline montanajoe

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Re: .22 LR for Self-Defense?
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2016, 04:16:32 am »
And it only takes one, right?

on a bet, if I absolutely HAD to make a shot, I reckon my hand would go to my old gopher gun... a Remington semi-auto .22LR rifle. Open sights and all, and me with eyesight going... I'd betcha I can still bark a squirrel with that old girl...  I can drill a dime with that thing, as far out as I can see - and an eye is bigger than a dime, jussayin.

I would not take that bet I'm confident you could. If you grow up hunting it and around firearms it becomes second nature, when I was in basic I easily qualified as an expert with a clunky old M-16..

Offline txradioguy

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Re: .22 LR for Self-Defense?
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2016, 02:12:54 pm »
I got interested in the issue of a .22 LR for self defense because while son-in-law #1 was here last week he took a real liking to the Ruger SR22.  So since he was really interested in buying that particular gun I helped him do some research on the best type of ammo for it and how practical it was for a self defense/carry weapon.
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Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: .22 LR for Self-Defense?
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2016, 04:39:46 pm »
Long ago, a gun writer tested a .357 snubby in conditions like those in a house and at night. He did so because he, and others, had long recommended that gun as a home defense weapon while neither he nor they had ever used that weapon under those conditions.

The first shot temporarily blinded and deafened him, making him flinch on subsequent shots.

There's a lot more to consider than how big a hole your bullet can make.

Agree completely.  For most people, the snubs in that kind of situation aren't much good outside 5-6 feet.

I'm a big fan of a .22 LR for many women in particular.  Small "purse" gun, cheap ammo, fun to shoot.  I'll bet the first shot hit % with one of those things is probably higher than just about anything else.  And because of the lack of recoil, it is much easier to fire multiple rounds on target.

Most importantly, because of the size/weight, it's easily concealable and much more likely to be carried in the first place.  Obviously, this isn't true for gun aficionados who are going to train plenty with whatever gun they have, but that's not most people.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 04:45:34 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: .22 LR for Self-Defense?
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2016, 04:51:32 pm »
If you can't hit 'em once with a 44 shoot 'em twice with a 22.
You can't hurt 'em if you can't hit 'em.
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Offline endicom

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Re: .22 LR for Self-Defense?
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2016, 05:08:01 pm »
Agree completely.  For most people, the snubs in that kind of situation aren't much good outside 5-6 feet.

I'm a big fan of a .22 LR for many women in particular.  Small "purse" gun, cheap ammo, fun to shoot.  I'll bet the first shot hit % with one of those things is probably higher than just about anything else.  And because of the lack of recoil, it is much easier to fire multiple rounds on target.

Most importantly, because of the size/weight, it's easily concealable and much more likely to be carried in the first place.  Obviously, this isn't true for gun aficionados who are going to train plenty with whatever gun they have, but that's not most people.


Most of the chest beating stuff I read about guns assumes, IMO, a too-good situation for the defender. OTOH, the talk about situational awareness is right on. If the attacker can close on you before the gun can be brought into play then it's hand-to-hand.

The talk about any real man being able to handle a large caliber handgun? Well, how about when you've sprained your wrist or mashed a finger or are coming down with the flu? Any weapon you would use should be usable then.

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Re: .22 LR for Self-Defense?
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2016, 07:29:41 pm »
The .22 has long been a preferred caliber for close up assassination, because it doesn't leave the body, just jangles around and does a lot of damage. It has value for home defense.

Another thought for longer range is subsonic. Very quiet, hard to shoot back if they don't know where it's coming from.
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Online roamer_1

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Re: .22 LR for Self-Defense?
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2016, 09:07:35 pm »
I would not take that bet I'm confident you could. If you grow up hunting it and around firearms it becomes second nature, when I was in basic I easily qualified as an expert with a clunky old M-16..

That wasn't a brag - I meant to point out the virtues of that old gopher gun...
I guarantee I have run more rounds through that gun than all the rest of them I've owned put together. Cheap ammo, to be sure, but the point is in the fact of my knowing the gun so very well because of it...

And I was speaking of it's accuracy, not my own... That thing has been drilling dimes and barking squirrels for forty years! There is no breath control needed, no special adjustment for flinch or pull... no jump, no time-off-target... Just as quick as you please, point and shoot.

The argument toward the OP would be in that - The ease of obtaining ammo for a .22 would translate into much more practice... and the accuracy, even in the hand of a novice, would tend to be greater without flinching and ToT... Providing that accuracy (which is not going to be debatable within it's range of op), one in the eye does just as well as 8 .45's center mass...

And in that, I would say there is a very good argument *for* a .22 as a defense weapon.