Author Topic: Full-Size Handgun: Go Big Before Going Compact  (Read 2933 times)

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Offline txradioguy

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Full-Size Handgun: Go Big Before Going Compact
« on: December 08, 2016, 02:10:24 pm »
One of the most common mistakes that I believe my students make when selecting their first handgun is to purchase a compact or subcompact pistol or revolver. New shooters are often attracted to small pistols because they mistakenly assume that small handguns will be easier to shoot. In my experience, women are more likely to make this error.

Women are sometimes encouraged to purchase a small handgun by a well- meaning friend or relative. Husbands often select a small handgun for their spouses. I have witnessed sales personnel suggesting compact revolvers to women who were purchasing their first handguns. Many people apparently believe that ladies should have a “dainty” pistol. Perhaps it is incorrectly assumed that women cannot hold a larger handgun steady enough to shoot well. My clients, however, prove otherwise in every class I teach.

At times it seems that the firearms industry in general is pushing women toward smaller handguns. Several firearm manufacturers produce small, compact pistols and revolvers finished in so-called “feminine” colors, such as pink or purple. Rarely do I see full-sized pistols in such colors. Only yesterday a young woman said to me, “My husband has several guns, but I want to get my own, one of those little pink revolvers.” Such thinking is no doubt encouraged by the fact that women are often pictured in firearms periodicals holding or shooting small, compact, brightly colored handguns.

On rare occasions a client will obtain a small, compact handgun for participation in a defensive pistol course. The results can be frustrating. Last year, one of my students started her class with a subcompact .45 ACP pistol. Within three hours, she was done. Her hands were hurting and the discomfort was causing her to anticipate the recoil and push the pistol as she pressed the trigger. She returned to a subsequent class armed with a full-sized Glock pistol and learned to be a competent defensive shooter. I have seen this sequence of events occur several times.

http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2016/12/full-size-handgun-shooting/#full-size-handgun-1
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Full-Size Handgun: Go Big Before Going Compact
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2016, 02:53:36 pm »
Agree completely.  Trying to start off a new shooter witg a compact 9 or above - even a .38 - may be too much, especially for women.

Got my wife a .22 auto compact for a purse carry, and she loves it.  She can move up to a larger caliber when she's more comfortable.

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Re: Full-Size Handgun: Go Big Before Going Compact
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2016, 03:02:52 pm »
Couldn't agree more!

I own only one compact pistol and a couple full sized.
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Offline Lando Lincoln

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Re: Full-Size Handgun: Go Big Before Going Compact
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2016, 03:06:28 pm »
Mine run from a Desert Eagle (too big for my hands) to a Ruger LC9s and S&W MP Shield.  Wheel guns, semi-autos. 

But I like to BS a lot.   :patriot:
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Full-Size Handgun: Go Big Before Going Compact
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2016, 01:52:45 am »
I was glad I found this article...looking at getting my wife a .357 with either a 2 or 3 in barrel.

Anyone have an opinion good or bad on the Rossi wheel guns?
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Online Elderberry

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Re: Full-Size Handgun: Go Big Before Going Compact
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2016, 02:07:10 am »
I was glad I found this article...looking at getting my wife a .357 with either a 2 or 3 in barrel.

Anyone have an opinion good or bad on the Rossi wheel guns?

Rossi's are pretty good, for the price.

Is your wife, a competent pistol shooter already? Do you think she will appreciate the muzzle blast of the .357 out of a 2 or 3 inch barrel? It is no way a pistol to start out with.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Full-Size Handgun: Go Big Before Going Compact
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2016, 02:24:19 am »
Having taught numerous women to shoot and be at least a little tactically situational-conscious,there is one undeniable truth. Ok,two undeniable truths. The first is no matter how good or effective the handgun is,it ain't worth a damn if they aren't willing to carry it every day. A 22LR derringer in a pocket you carry every day is better than a M-240 kept at home.

The second is the women will treat you just like they do their husbands. They will nod their heads and agree,and then do whatever the hell it is they want to do.

Secondly,there is nothing at all wrong with small pink/whatever 5 shot 32 or 38 Special revolvers. The typical woman isn't going to be involved in a running gun battle with the SLA or the IRA,so WTH does she need a 17 shot magazine with two spares? Give her a short-barreled 38 special in flamingo pink if that's what she wants and it will inspire her to carry it,and then give her some 148 grain hollow-base swaged wadcutters loaded backwards at 600-800 fps depending on how used to recoil she is,and tell her if attacked to just stick it in the guys eye or stomach and keep pulling the trigger until it quits making loud noises.

IF you are lucky and she is one of the rare few that develops a genuine interest in shooting,she can always buy a revolver with a 4 inch barrel after that,and you can load her some actual target grade ammo

BTW,these reverse-loaded swaged wadcutters are the perfect load for home defense or apartment defense,where you have thin walls and family members or relatives that might be at risk if you shoot. They won't completely penetrate the normal human body,so all the energy is expended inside the bad guy where it is needed,and a miss won't shoot through 2 rooms and kill an innocent.

For those of you who are unsure about a swaged bullet,it is dead soft lead bullet with no antimony like tin in it. Pure lead. They are so soft you can usually scratch one with a fingernail. Cast bullets,sometimes called "Hard Cast" bullets are the same bullet,but it has tin or some other alloy in it to make it harder. Hard cast bullets do not expand at all in the human body. They make the same size hole going out they made going in. The purpose of making them hard in a handgun is because you can get higher velocities without "leading" the barrel of your pistol or revolver. Generally speaking,anything above 900 fps needs to be hardened to keep from clogging the grooves in the barrel. Depending on the powder you use,they may also need a metal cap on the base to keep it from melting  as it goes down the barrel. No real concern for the casual shooter,but something you need to know if you plan on reloading or buying reloaded ammo.

BTW,forget magnum velocities in guns with barrels 4 inches long or shorter. Ain't going to  happen. You can buy and shoot the magnum ammo in most revolvers,but all you get is more muzzle blast ,more noise,and less control over the gun. Plus you spend a hell of a lot more money to buy it. Better to have ammo loaded to moderate levels for quick backup shots that you can put on target if you need backup shots. Plus,many,many newbies to shooting have been ruined for shooting as a hobby be some idiot handing them something like a 44 Magnum with maxed out loads and telling them to "try this one". The most important thing to know about a bullet is that you can put it where you want to put it. Let other people worry about maximum velocities.

 

I NEVER recommend a semi-auto for ANY newbie,male or female. People under "fight or flight" stress the first time don't need to be having to remember stuff like safeties,and it has been MY experience that no matter how many times you tell them,it is damn near impossible to get newbies to carry a round in the chamber. Also,they all seem to have a tendency to keep fumbling around with the damn thing to see if it's loaded. You don't have accidental discharges or the VERY loud clicking sound of a hammer falling on a empty chamber with revolvers,and you can tell at a glance that it is loaded without having to fool around with it.

Revolvers are the original "point and click" devices.Noting to remember but pulling the trigger.

BTW,I am a HUGE fan of the 1911A1's,as well as the P-35's. I have no use at all or any interest in owing a striker-fired semi-auto or any semi-auto that isn't SA only unless it is a true pocket pistol,like a derringer or something like the old AMT semi-autos. That doesn't mean that a 1911A1 is the perfect gun for everyone. It's a  world-class GREAT handgun if you are willing to gain the experience to safely handle,carry,and shoot one,but it's not a handgun for newbies.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 02:38:57 am by sneakypete »
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Full-Size Handgun: Go Big Before Going Compact
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2016, 02:47:08 am »
I was glad I found this article...looking at getting my wife a .357 with either a 2 or 3 in barrel. "

One word,NO!

"Anyone have an opinion good or bad on the Rossi wheel guns?"

I have a Rossi 721 44 Special with a 3 inch barrel,no rear sight,and it is single action only. AFAIK,it is no longer made since Taurus bought out Rossi,and I literally wouldn't sell it for 5 thousand bucks unless I knew where I could buy another one brand new the same day. I like it so much I no longer carry any of my 1911's. Not even the custom Combat Commander I built. I have shot running snakes with it that were 10-15 feet away,and even popped a couple in the head that were swimming in water and their heads were all I could see. Mine LOVES 200 grain bullets. They work so well I haven't even tried anything else.

My only question is "Where are you going to find one to buy?". As far as I know,Taurus bought out Rossi and either discontinued their guns like my 44 Special in favor of their own larger guns,or just started stamping the Rossi's as Taurus.

Either way,they are quality firearms.


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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Full-Size Handgun: Go Big Before Going Compact
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2016, 02:55:37 am »
Rossi's are pretty good, for the price.

Is your wife, a competent pistol shooter already? Do you think she will appreciate the muzzle blast of the .357 out of a 2 or 3 inch barrel? It is no way a pistol to start out with.
@txradioguy

Yes she is. Shes a pretty good shot with my Officers model 1911 .45.   So she already knows what to expect from a large caliber handgun.

Plus she took an intro to concealed carry class amd fired everything from a .22LR pistol to a .45 ACP.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Full-Size Handgun: Go Big Before Going Compact
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2016, 02:56:42 am »
Rossi's are pretty good, for the price.

Is your wife, a competent pistol shooter already? Do you think she will appreciate the muzzle blast of the .357 out of a 2 or 3 inch barrel? It is no way a pistol to start out with.
@txradioguy

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Plus you pay more money and end up with a larger and heavier 38 Special,because no matter what kind of magnum load you shoot out of a 2 or 3 inch barrel,you end up with 38 Special velocities. Even then they are on the low side of 38 Special velocities because of the short barrels.

If it were me,I wouldn't even let her shoot a magnum. The muzzle blast and recoil tend to make newbie shooters develop a flinch that almost never goes away and they end up not being able to hit a Buick at 10 feet.

There are a BUNCH of short barreled 38 Special revolvers out there that have handy little features like a hammer shroud so the hammer doesn't hang up in your pocket if you ever have to draw it. Some are made from aluminum to make them light weight,and most of the pink ones you see fall into this category. Women tend to like small and light guns that fit easily into their purse or coat pocket. If push comes to shove,you can fire a revolver from inside your coat pocket without having to pull it out if it has a hammer shroud. Yeah,chances are you will be pulling your coat off and putting out the fire afterwards,but that beats the hell out of being killed. I also like the fact you can have the gun IN your hand if you even THINK you might need it,and nobody can look at you and tell you have a gun. That way if you can talk your way out of shooting by telling a potential attacker you have a gun and will kill him,and he goes to the cops and tells them you pulled a gun on him and he wants you arrested. If he can't see it he can't describe it.
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Offline Mom MD

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Re: Full-Size Handgun: Go Big Before Going Compact
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2016, 03:09:26 am »
Agree completely.  Trying to start off a new shooter witg a compact 9 or above - even a .38 - may be too much, especially for women.

Got my wife a .22 auto compact for a purse carry, and she loves it.  She can move up to a larger caliber when she's more comfortable.

I carry a .40 full size semi auto most of the time. One of the nice things about being a girl is I can carry in my purse, so I don't have to worry about concealing in clothing.  However when I go running I have a very compact .380 that fits in the palm of my hand but still holds 6+1.  I may not be as accurate with it, but if I have to use it while out running, it will be close in work anyway....  I think the biggest mistake women make is underestimating the caliber they can handle from the start.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Full-Size Handgun: Go Big Before Going Compact
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2016, 03:12:32 am »
I carry a .40 full size semi auto most of the time. One of the nice things about being a girl is I can carry in my purse, so I don't have to worry about concealing in clothing.  However when I go running I have a very compact .380 that fits in the palm of my hand but still holds 6+1.  I may not be as accurate with it, but if I have to use it while out running, it will be close in work anyway....  I think the biggest mistake women make is underestimating the caliber they can handle from the start.

@Mom MD

I would suggest you come up with a better plan than purse carry. Somebody runs up on you and snatches your purse,they not only have your credit cards and cash,they also have your gun. Think about adopting a wardrobe that will allow you to carry your .40 concealed,or maybe switch to a smaller gun that will fit into a pocket for a carry piece.
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Offline Mom MD

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Re: Full-Size Handgun: Go Big Before Going Compact
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2016, 03:17:13 am »
@Mom MD

I would suggest you come up with a better plan than purse carry. Somebody runs up on you and snatches your purse,they not only have your credit cards and cash,they also have your gun. Think about adopting a wardrobe that will allow you to carry your .40 concealed,or maybe switch to a smaller gun that will fit into a pocket for a carry piece.

Purse carry works just fine for me.  I never have my purse anywhere but over my arm when I am in public, even in the grocery store.  When I am walking to my car at night my hand is on my gun inside my purse. If anyone pulled my purse away, I would be left holding the gun and they would be left with a big surprise.  I find it a lot more convenient than a body holster, and have no awkard moments when trying to use a public restroom. All methods of carry have some drawbacks, I found one that works for me.  Others will prefer other methods.
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Online Elderberry

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Re: Full-Size Handgun: Go Big Before Going Compact
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2016, 04:30:20 am »
Yes she is. Shes a pretty good shot with my Officers model 1911 .45.   So she already knows what to expect from a large caliber handgun.

Plus she took an intro to concealed carry class amd fired everything from a .22LR pistol to a .45 ACP.

The .357 is going to be much louder than the .45. And its going to have a higher frequency crack due to the higher pressure of the gases exiting the muzzle.

She will need to double up on hearing protection in order to comfortably shoot it.

@txradioguy

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Full-Size Handgun: Go Big Before Going Compact
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2016, 04:51:56 am »
The .357 is going to be much louder than the .45. And its going to have a higher frequency crack due to the higher pressure of the gases exiting the muzzle.

She will need to double up on hearing protection in order to comfortably shoot it.

@txradioguy

Yeah she found that out in the class. She said thr crack from a 9mm bothers her ears more than a .357.  I'm still leaning towards something with a 3" barrel to try and retain some decent velocity and six rounds so shes at least got as many rounds as the sub compact semis.

And I made sure first off to get her some good over the ear hearing protection.

@Elderberry
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 04:53:01 am by txradioguy »
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Online Elderberry

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Re: Full-Size Handgun: Go Big Before Going Compact
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2016, 12:25:34 am »
Yeah she found that out in the class. She said thr crack from a 9mm bothers her ears more than a .357.  I'm still leaning towards something with a 3" barrel to try and retain some decent velocity and six rounds so shes at least got as many rounds as the sub compact semis.

And I made sure first off to get her some good over the ear hearing protection.


Velocity is not everything. Have you thought of the Charter Arms Bulldog? But it's a 5 holer.

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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Full-Size Handgun: Go Big Before Going Compact
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2016, 12:28:52 am »
Having taught numerous women to shoot and be at least a little tactically situational-conscious,there is one undeniable truth. Ok,two undeniable truths. The first is no matter how good or effective the handgun is,it ain't worth a damn if they aren't willing to carry it every day. A 22LR derringer in a pocket you carry every day is better than a M-240 kept at home.

The second is the women will treat you just like they do their husbands. They will nod their heads and agree,and then do whatever the hell it is they want to do.

Secondly,there is nothing at all wrong with small pink/whatever 5 shot 32 or 38 Special revolvers. The typical woman isn't going to be involved in a running gun battle with the SLA or the IRA,so WTH does she need a 17 shot magazine with two spares? Give her a short-barreled 38 special in flamingo pink if that's what she wants and it will inspire her to carry it,and then give her some 148 grain hollow-base swaged wadcutters loaded backwards at 600-800 fps depending on how used to recoil she is,and tell her if attacked to just stick it in the guys eye or stomach and keep pulling the trigger until it quits making loud noises.

Amen.  A gun that you're willing to carry and shoot is always better than the far better gun you don't.  Particularly true for women.

Quote
I NEVER recommend a semi-auto for ANY newbie,male or female. People under "fight or flight" stress the first time don't need to be having to remember stuff like safeties,and it has been MY experience that no matter how many times you tell them,it is damn near impossible to get newbies to carry a round in the chamber. Also,they all seem to have a tendency to keep fumbling around with the damn thing to see if it's loaded. You don't have accidental discharges or the VERY loud clicking sound of a hammer falling on a empty chamber with revolvers,and you can tell at a glance that it is loaded without having to fool around with it.

Revolvers are the original "point and click" devices.Noting to remember but pulling the trigger.

BTW,I am a HUGE fan of the 1911A1's,as well as the P-35's. I have no use at all or any interest in owing a striker-fired semi-auto or any semi-auto that isn't SA only unless it is a true pocket pistol,like a derringer or something like the old AMT semi-autos. That doesn't mean that a 1911A1 is the perfect gun for everyone. It's a  world-class GREAT handgun if you are willing to gain the experience to safely handle,carry,and shoot one,but it's not a handgun for newbies.

I hate 1911's -- never could get one where the ergonomics felt quite right.  But I otherwise agree.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Full-Size Handgun: Go Big Before Going Compact
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2016, 12:30:19 am »
Purse carry works just fine for me.  I never have my purse anywhere but over my arm when I am in public, even in the grocery store.  When I am walking to my car at night my hand is on my gun inside my purse. If anyone pulled my purse away, I would be left holding the gun and they would be left with a big surprise.  I find it a lot more convenient than a body holster, and have no awkard moments when trying to use a public restroom. All methods of carry have some drawbacks, I found one that works for me.  Others will prefer other methods.

Honestly, I think this sounds great.  If you're aware of your surroundings, then a purse gun is awesome.

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Re: Full-Size Handgun: Go Big Before Going Compact
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2016, 12:49:50 am »
Quote
I NEVER recommend a semi-auto for ANY newbie,male or female. People under "fight or flight" stress the first time don't need to be having to remember stuff like safeties,and it has been MY experience that no matter how many times you tell them,it is damn near impossible to get newbies to carry a round in the chamber. Also,they all seem to have a tendency to keep fumbling around with the damn thing to see if it's loaded. You don't have accidental discharges or the VERY loud clicking sound of a hammer falling on an empty chamber with revolvers,and you can tell at a glance that it is loaded without having to fool around with it.

Revolvers are the original "point and click" devices.Nothing to remember but pulling the trigger.

Although I personally have no use for 19th-century technology (wheel guns) I do agree with your reasoning in the above with regard to newbys who just want to do what is necessary to arm themselves and let that be that.  Otherwise not so much.

I personally carry a compact, striker fired, semi-automatic pistol and feel 100% confident that it will do whatever I need it to do in any situation I am likely to encounter.

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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Full-Size Handgun: Go Big Before Going Compact
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2016, 01:09:57 am »


I personally carry a compact, striker fired, semi-automatic pistol and feel 100% confident that it will do whatever I need it to do in any situation I am likely to encounter.

@Bigun

Well,the gun you carry only has to suit you,not me or anyone else.

I am a very firm believer in the KISS principle though,and  was a SF weapons man in the army,and a school trained gunsmith that worked in a couple of different gun shops as a gunsmith,and had my own shop for a while. I have handled and repaired too many striker-fired pistols that were prone to AD's to be happy with them.

Plus I prefer a smaller revolver like my 44 Rossi in the winter because I can carry it in my coat pocket and shoot right through the pocket if I have to. You can't do that with a self-loading  handgun. Maybe a small thing,but I like the idea of being able to have my revolver in my hand with my finger on the trigger if I suspect something is about to happen,and like being able to do that without having to take my gun out in the open and risk being charged with intimidation or pointing a firearm at anyone.

I'm more prone to carry my Combat Commander or Hi-Power in warm weather,when the thinner guns are easier to conceal under a t-shirt. When I carry a revolver,it is always in a pants or coat pocket.
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