Author Topic: President-elect Trump on his desire to cancel Boeing’s Air Force One order: “We want Boeing to make a lot of money, but not that much money”  (Read 8175 times)

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Offline Night Hides Not

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Here's how it's being reported by USA Today:

President-elect Donald Trump on Tuesday called for the U.S. government to cancel a deal with aircraft manufacturer Boeing for development of a new Air Force One.

The Air Force signed deals with Boeing in January and July to design certain aspects of the new presidential aircraft, including its interior, electrical and power system, and maintenance systems.

The U.S. Government Accountability Office estimated in March that the entire program would cost about $3.2 billion from the 2010 through 2020 fiscal years, including $2 billion for research and development.  ...

That's better...$2 Billion for R&D? Hmm, whose congressional districts house those Boeing facilities?
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Offline Neverdul

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Why do I think that Trump will “try” to get his personal 757 jet (Trump Force One as some call it) fitted with the necessary security and defensive upgrades paid for by us taxpayers and then will try make money off it in the process by leasing it back to the government?

Of course that wouldn’t really “fly” with the Air Force or with the SS. Then again, he might be planning to make big changes at the Secret Service too.




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geronl

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Why do I think that Trump will “try” to get his personal 757 jet (Trump Force One as some call it) fitted with the necessary security and defensive upgrades paid for by us taxpayers and then will try make money off it in the process by leasing it back to the government?


Not possible. The 757 is far too small.

Offline r9etb

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Not possible. The 757 is far too small.

And no longer manufactured.  The gov't isn't going to (and should not) upgrade some guy's private plane.


Offline Neverdul

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Not possible. The 757 is far too small.

True but then AF1 doesn't have gold plated seat belts and gold plated toilet fixtures and pillows with Trump's family crest.

And we know that Trump will likely not be traveling with a press pool so that should cut down on the number of seats needed.
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Online DCPatriot

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Rush Limbaugh is suggesting today that Trump is 'dumb like a fox'-like, and that there's a LOT more going on here with Boeing.

Boeing has contributed millions to the Clinton Foundation and Bill Clinton while Hillary was Sec of State and meeting with the Iranians. 

Then they were awarded....or expected to be awarded, the Contract for rebuilding the Iranian airliner fleet.

Stay tuned.....     :laugh:
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Online mountaineer

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REUTERS:
Quote
... Boeing has not yet begun building the two replacements for the current Air Force One planes, which are scheduled to be in service by the 2024 fiscal year, and it was not clear what Trump's source of information was for the cost.

The budgeted costs for the Air Force One replacement program are $2.87 billion for the fiscal years 2015 through 2021, according to budget documents.

A March 2016 report from the Government Accountability Office, a watchdog agency, estimated the total cost of the two 747's, which have to be extensively modified so they can function as an airborne White House, was estimated at $3.2 billion.

Boeing has not yet been awarded the money to build the proposed replacements, and is currently working on engineering and designing the aircraft.

"We are currently under contract for $170 million to help determine the capabilities of these complex military aircraft that serve the unique requirements of the President of the United States," the company said in a statement.

"We look forward to working with the U.S. Air Force on subsequent phases of the program allowing us to deliver the best planes for the president at the best value for the American taxpayer."  ...
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Offline INVAR

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President-elect Trump: “We want Boeing to make a lot of money, but not that much money”.

Well, at least under Trump we know that the new practice of the government picking winners and losers and determining how much they should be allowed to make will continue even after Obama has left office.
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Offline mirraflake

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Well, at least under Trump we know that the new practice of the government picking winners and losers and determining how much they should be allowed to make will continue even after Obama has left office.

A new 747-8 cost $400 million. One AF1 747-8 cost 4 billion..quite  a markup. I have no problem with Trump slapping them down.  That 3.6 billion is quite a bit of missile defense, medical quite etc.

Offline r9etb

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A new 747-8 cost $400 million. One AF1 747-8 cost 4 billion..quite  a markup. I have no problem with Trump slapping them down.  That 3.6 billion is quite a bit of missile defense, medical quite etc.

Your facts are not correct.  Thus, what "you have no problem with," is discounted accordingly.

Offline INVAR

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A new 747-8 cost $400 million. One AF1 747-8 cost 4 billion..quite  a markup. I have no problem with Trump slapping them down.  That 3.6 billion is quite a bit of missile defense, medical quite etc.

Yes, because Trumpian "Conservatives" have absolutely no problem with gargantuan government 'slapping down' businesses they do not like or want 'limited'.

Mussolini is laughing in his grave.
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Offline ABX

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Well this is interesting. Trump made his AF1 tweet after Boeing CEO criticized him. http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2016/12/06/trump-bashes-boeing-after-ceo-s-mild-criticism.html?via=mobile&source=copyurl

Looks more like a revenge twitter tantrum than a cost cutting move.

Offline ABX

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A new 747-8 cost $400 million. One AF1 747-8 cost 4 billion..quite  a markup. I have no problem with Trump slapping them down.  That 3.6 billion is quite a bit of missile defense, medical quite etc.

There is not 'one' AF1. When they build one they actually build a fleet. Wherever the President goes, a duplicate AF1 follows him as well as there are always a couple on standby.

$3.6 Billion is likely for 3-4 jets along with all of the military technology.

Offline ABX

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Why do I think that Trump will “try” to get his personal 757 jet (Trump Force One as some call it) fitted with the necessary security and defensive upgrades paid for by us taxpayers and then will try make money off it in the process by leasing it back to the government?

Not going to happen. First of all, there isn't one jet, there are several AF1's built at any one time as emergency back-ups so they are always ready. Also, AF1 just appears to be a regular jet but it is basically a mobile military command center. It would be like replacing the USS Ronald Reagan with his personal yacht.


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Do we need replacements for the current AF1 fleet? How quickly do they become obsolete, I wonder.
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From a purely generic aircraft point of view based on my years in flight test and not knowing exactly what the exact configuration of AF1 is...

Maintaining older aircraft gets harder and harder each year.  Parts obsolescence and availability is usually the biggest obstacle.  Getting replacement parts can be quite expensive if the OEM has since moved to other manufacturers for newer components of newer generation aircraft. 

Even though it's based on a commercial model, we gotta remember that it's a flying operations center to keep the President in constant contact with Command, Control, Communications.  0bama used the plane as his personal valet service more than anything, but during 9/11 Bush was using it for it's intended purpose.  AF1 is for all practical purposes, a shell of a 747 and all similarities end there.

Upgrading equipment within the aircraft takes a lot of research, design and engineering.  Newer modern equipment can't just be plugged in to upgrade existing, obsolete equipment.  Have to verify compatibility and impact...anything that takes power has to be vetted carefully and modifications made before it's allowed to be operated.

Power systems within AF1 are unlike any in a typical 747.  Then there are the structural modifications made to accommodate any extra weight imposed by the requirements.  This in turn, affects thrust to weight ratio, operating range, etc.

Modifying existing airframes can be an expensive proposition, so can building new airplanes from scratch...at some point though, the cost to maintain will exceed good fiscal sense.  Like the Navy mothballing/retiring old ships...
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Offline Neverdul

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Not going to happen. First of all, there isn't one jet, there are several AF1's built at any one time as emergency back-ups so they are always ready. Also, AF1 just appears to be a regular jet but it is basically a mobile military command center. It would be like replacing the USS Ronald Reagan with his personal yacht.

Agreed. That's why I said it wouldn't "fly".

Airforce One (both of them because as I understand there are always two, one is always on standby) is not anything like a commercial or private/business jet liner.

In addition to all the defensive equipment and the very advanced com systems that were upgraded after 9/11, Air Force One also has an on board fully equipped medical facility. 

Interesting documentary on Air Force One:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q6lmXHfwQE
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geronl

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It was nothing more than another Trumpertantrum.

This man will risk the safety of the nation because some CEO had some very mild criticism of his rhetoric

Offline r9etb

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Well this is interesting. Trump made his AF1 tweet after Boeing CEO criticized him. http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2016/12/06/trump-bashes-boeing-after-ceo-s-mild-criticism.html?via=mobile&source=copyurl

Looks more like a revenge twitter tantrum than a cost cutting move.

Ugh.  Just as predicted.


Offline rodamala

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« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 03:23:05 pm by rodamala »

Offline Suppressed

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30 years

Two very expensive planes, 30-years, parts, upgrades, constant maintenance

Cancel it and force Trump to fly commercial on his overseas jaunts.

If he insists on using less-capable platforms, he is saying he has no intention of fulfilling his duties, and he is unfit for the office.
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Offline NavyCanDo

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Working at Boeing and hearing nothing of a contract to Build replacement Air Force One ever being finalized I was critical of his Tweet from the start. A little digging shows Trump misspoke once again, showing is complete ignorance.

The inaccuracies in Donald Trump’s Air Force One tweet

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/12/06/the-inaccuracies-in-donald-trumps-air-force-one-tweet/?utm_term=.6fb264814d4f

Trump is not a stickler for accuracy, but there are number of inaccuracies in his tweet. Let’s break them down one by one.


“Boeing is building . . . ”

Earlier in 2016, Boeing received a $170 million contract to design a replacement for the aging pair of Air Force Ones used by the president. Boeing is not actually building the jet, though logically it is the only U.S. manufacturer with the capability to build such an aircraft.


“Costs are out of control, more than $4 billion”

Cost have actually not been set. The Defense Department’s five-year plan indicates a cost of $2.9 billion over the next five years for design and development. It’s logical to assume at least another $1 billion in additional expenses to complete and procure the aircraft.

So an estimate of $4 billion — for design, testing and manufacture of at least two jets — is not completely out of line. But the budget is subject to approval by Congress and the actual design of the aircraft. Boeing literally needs to re-engineer the plane from the ground up, so there are many one-time expenses.

Boeing says it made no money making the last set of Air Force One jets and does not expect to make money on this order, as it is more a matter of prestige. Indeed, Boeing has already announced that it may soon end production of the 747 jet.


“Cancel the order!”

Nothing has been ordered yet. But the program could be eliminated. This may not be a problem for Trump, but certainly would affect his successors, especially if no order is placed before Boeing stops making 747s. The current aircraft were delivered in 1990, and as we noted, the life cycle is about 30 years. The Pentagon says the current fleet “faces capability gaps, rising maintenance costs, and parts obsolescence as it reaches the end of its planned 30-year life-cycle.”


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HonestJohn

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Well this is interesting. Trump made his AF1 tweet after Boeing CEO criticized him. http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2016/12/06/trump-bashes-boeing-after-ceo-s-mild-criticism.html?via=mobile&source=copyurl

Looks more like a revenge twitter tantrum than a cost cutting move.

Watch for 'unexpected' delays and 'unforeseen' cost overruns should this continue.