Author Topic: Antarctic Sea Ice Extent Similar To What It Was 100 Years Ago  (Read 1877 times)

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rangerrebew

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Antarctic Sea Ice Extent Similar To What It Was 100 Years Ago
« on: November 26, 2016, 03:38:42 pm »
Antarctic Sea Ice Extent Similar To What It Was 100 Years Ago
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Michael Bastasch
12:47 PM 11/25/2016
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Scientists were shocked by what they found while pouring over accounts by famous South Pole explorers from about a century ago — findings that could change the way experts think about Antarctica and global warming.

Researchers found that Antarctic sea ice extent has barely changed since Ernest Shackleton’s botched expedition to map out the South Pole in 1917.

Antarctic sea ice conditions in Shackleton’s day mirrored those of today, according to a new study using logs compiled by Shackleton, in addition to data from other noteworthy Antarctic forays during the early 20th Century.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/25/antarctic-sea-ice-extent-similar-to-what-it-was-100-years-ago/#ixzz4R86Ffdby

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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice Extent Similar To What It Was 100 Years Ago
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2016, 04:06:36 pm »
I always laugh when the global warming hystericists claim 'well, arctic ice is as low as it was in 1979, or 19__  or 18__, so that means global warming'.

So what the hell was going on in 19__ or 18__ to make the ice low then? Man made global warming?
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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice Extent Similar To What It Was 100 Years Ago
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2016, 04:21:18 pm »
I always laugh when the global warming hystericists claim 'well, arctic ice is as low as it was in 1979, or 19__  or 18__, so that means global warming'.

So what the hell was going on in 19__ or 18__ to make the ice low then? Man made global warming?

My liberal family is all panicky because the lakes aren't froze over and Sandhill cranes haven't headed south.

The lakes around here freeze over around a week before Christmas to a week after. Give or take a week either way isn't unusual and some years we never get good ice. The waterfowl like Canada geese and Cranes ony migrate as far as open water and food.

I'm the one who lives on the lake and has years of dated pics from just about every day of the year but I don't notice the devastation of global warming.

Offline r9etb

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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice Extent Similar To What It Was 100 Years Ago
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2016, 05:39:08 pm »
Scientists were shocked by what they found while pouring over accounts by famous South Pole explorers from about a century ago

What were they pouring?  Maple syrup?  Dog slobber?

Offline r9etb

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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice Extent Similar To What It Was 100 Years Ago
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2016, 05:42:05 pm »
I always laugh when the global warming hystericists claim 'well, arctic ice is as low as it was in 1979, or 19__  or 18__, so that means global warming'.

So what the hell was going on in 19__ or 18__ to make the ice low then? Man made global warming?

Well, yeah.... that's the question that never gets asked.  Because to ask it is to suggest that there are cycles even where ice levels are concerned.

Not that man-caused effects couldn't in some way be involved; but if they are involved, it's in a very complex way that includes a lot of large natural effects.

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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice Extent Similar To What It Was 100 Years Ago
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2016, 04:36:56 am »
Those who are serious about polar climate talk of ice volume, not just extent.  Rosie O'Donnell and Kate Moss are both 5'7", but one is thick and the other thin.

Areal extent can increase as the glacial bed is warmer, the ice is warmer, etc.
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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice Extent Similar To What It Was 100 Years Ago
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2016, 04:50:30 am »
I always laugh when the global warming hystericists claim 'well, arctic ice is as low as it was in 1979, or 19__  or 18__, so that means global warming'.

So what the hell was going on in 19__ or 18__ to make the ice low then? Man made global warming?

Well they usually reference everything to the late 70's making it the baseline... It also happened to be unusually cold and people were worried it was the beginning of glacial period... A perfect starting point if you want to show warming... As far as honesty in advertising not so much...

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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice Extent Similar To What It Was 100 Years Ago
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2016, 04:52:17 am »
Those who are serious about polar climate talk of ice volume, not just extent.  Rosie O'Donnell and Kate Moss are both 5'7", but one is thick and the other thin.

Areal extent can increase as the glacial bed is warmer, the ice is warmer, etc.

When glaciers get bigger/heavier they tend to go down hills more... That's what glaciers do...

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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice Extent Similar To What It Was 100 Years Ago
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2016, 05:49:37 pm »
When glaciers get bigger/heavier they tend to go down hills more... That's what glaciers do...

Actually, as ice warms, it flows more. Think of molasses on a warm pan...it spreads out farther in a thinner layer than if it's cold.

Plus, as the glacier bed warms, there's less friction to hold the ice back from flowing, flowing on a thin water film.

Also, with Antarctica, as it reaches the sea, the ice floats up, lifting the ice away from the rock bed on land.  As the waters around the land get warmer, that water can melt farther and farther inland under the glacier...i.e., even less friction, so more flow.

In other words, greater ice extent is a sign of warming, depending on other factors.
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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice Extent Similar To What It Was 100 Years Ago
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2016, 07:19:39 pm »
In other words, greater ice extent is a sign of warming, depending on other factors.

Which is rather different from the whole "ice caps are shrinking because of global warming" thing.

Which is it?


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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice Extent Similar To What It Was 100 Years Ago
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2016, 07:31:42 pm »
Actually, as ice warms, it flows more. Think of molasses on a warm pan...it spreads out farther in a thinner layer than if it's cold.

Plus, as the glacier bed warms, there's less friction to hold the ice back from flowing, flowing on a thin water film.

Also, with Antarctica, as it reaches the sea, the ice floats up, lifting the ice away from the rock bed on land.  As the waters around the land get warmer, that water can melt farther and farther inland under the glacier...i.e., even less friction, so more flow.

In other words, greater ice extent is a sign of warming, depending on other factors.

It isn't that simple. More ice is also heavier and also flows down hill more. The only places in Antarctica that are "warmer" are where there are active under sea volcanoes nearby. Believe it or not, nature isn't static. It continues to change with or without man.

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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice Extent Similar To What It Was 100 Years Ago
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2016, 07:35:25 pm »
Which is rather different from the whole "ice caps are shrinking because of global warming" thing.

Which is it?

Why it is both ways... All change proves global warming... A theory that short of the earth remaining static, which it never has, can't be refuted because no matter what happens it is proof of it... It is "special" science...

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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice Extent Similar To What It Was 100 Years Ago
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2016, 08:19:15 pm »
It isn't that simple. More ice is also heavier and also flows down hill more.

I'm not sure what your point is.  With Antarctica, all boundaries end in the ocean, so ice cannot build up thicker without being colder.  At a constant viscosity, there's no way for it to be "heavier" by building up, as it would just spread.  And when it reaches the ocean, various factors come into play as to whether it spreads far as an "floating ice sheet/shelf" or snaps off.

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The only places in Antarctica that are "warmer" are where there are active under sea volcanoes nearby.

Absolutely false.  For example, here are some surface-temperature maps:


Quote
Believe it or not, nature isn't static. It continues to change with or without man.

Of course it's not static, and there are delays in the system such that the results of an input can take time to appear.

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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice Extent Similar To What It Was 100 Years Ago
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2016, 08:28:55 pm »
Which is rather different from the whole "ice caps are shrinking because of global warming" thing.

Which is it?

"Shrinking" in extent or volume?

There are cases where shrinking extent are the result of warming.  This is not a contradiction, but because the system is so complex, it's difficult to generalize.  As I pointed out before, if the ocean warms around an ice shelf, it can cause the ice to lift off the rock under the land portion of the ice sheet.  While that means the ice sheet flows faster, so ice extent can increase, it also increases the instability of the ice sheet, so it is more likely to have a catastrophic breakup, resulting in a decrease.

We deal with such concepts everyday in the normal world...   Would we ever say, "You said sunlight is healthy!  So why is that person getting skin cancer?"  "You said salt makes food taste better.  So why is my salt-frosted cake bad?"  Etc.

Depending on many factors, we can see various results...often contradictory if we look at one factor.  (Yes, I know that global warming fanatics might use one factor and try to say that's everything, but that's not how good professionals do it.)
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Re: Antarctic Sea Ice Extent Similar To What It Was 100 Years Ago
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2016, 08:32:07 pm »
Why it is both ways... All change proves global warming... A theory that short of the earth remaining static, which it never has, can't be refuted because no matter what happens it is proof of it... It is "special" science...

Please see my previous comment regarding this.

And I don't know of anyone who has a static-earth theory of climate.  However, there are those of us who realize that rates of change are important.  Sure, we've had many differences in climate in the past, but comparing over long geologic time scales isn't relevant to discussions on the impact to humans.

Do I recognize that much of climate variation is natural?  Heck, yeah!  But I also have to admit that there's a lot of evidence that it's not all natural.
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“In the outside world, I'm a simple geologist. But in here .... I am Falcor, Defender of the Alliance” --Randy Marsh

“The most effectual means of being secure against pain is to retire within ourselves, and to suffice for our own happiness.” -- Thomas Jefferson

“He's so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent.” --Foghorn Leghorn