Obama Should Pardon ‘Dreamer’ Immigrants, Democrats Say

[bolobaby]

A group of House Democrats called on President Barack Obama to pardon about 750,000 young undocumented immigrants who are temporarily shielded from deportation under a 2012 executive order, a move that reflects growing concern about a shift in immigration policy expected after President-elect Donald Trump takes power in January.

“By no fault of their own, these Americans are prisoners in their own country, living their daily lives, not knowing if they will be deported to another country,” Representative Lucille Roybal-Allard, a California Democrat, said at a news conference. She and a group of other lawmakers active on immigration policy sent a letter to Obama with their request Thursday.

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http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-11-17/obama-should-pardon-dreamer-immigrants-house-democrats-say

[bolobaby]

So, I know a "Dreamer." When he was but a baby, his parents illegally immigrated from Ecuador and brought him here. Now in his mid-20s, he knows nothing but America. In his mind, he is American. He works in a technical field, and has taken advantage of Obama's DACA waiver to get a work permit. The job that he holds is not easily filled. (As an IT executive, I know what it takes to find good people for certain roles. In fact, for my last seven positions, I had to import employees from other states because positions remained unfilled for months, and we had to cast a wider net to try and find qualified candidates.)

This guy is in a tough spot. I can empathize with him. Like Ted Cruz said, "illegal immigration creates human tragedies."

So what do you do with a guy like this? Clearly he is here illegally. Clearly *something* needs to be done.

In cases like this, I do support some things that would be widely criticized on TBR. Here's how I would handle it:

1. Dreamer voluntarily submits himself for deportation. This does not extend to his family - just the illegal who is here by no fault of his own.
2. Revoke his work permit.
3. Pardon his illegal immigration crime and "visa overstay." Otherwise, the way the law currently works, the Dreamer could not re-enter the country for 10 years.
4. Deport the Dreamer.
5. Place the Dreamer at the top of the list for visa consideration *in priority order based on number of years residency*. So, yeah, someone like my friend who has been here 20-something years would trump some high school student who crossed the border 2 months ago.
6. VISA LIMITS AND OTHER FACTORS THAT WOULD NORMALLY RESULT IN DENIAL REMAIN IN EFFECT.

Some might call this "touch back" amnesty. Here's how I look at it...

We have a current immigration policy that allows X number of people to get visas per year anyway. If we are going to let X people in, why not give preferential treatment to individuals who have already lived here, have valuable skills, have proven themselves good residents (no lawbreakers! no-fault illegal immigration status, aside), and - for the most part - already consider themselves to be American?

Bear in mind that unskilled workers already have a tough time getting visas, so all those useless illegals who are a drain on the system would simply get deported and have little/no chance to get back in. Many in that situation would not self-deport, so we kick those out forcibly after the opt-in period has expired.

[bolobaby]

@Mod1 Can you move this to Immigration? I did not see the separate topic.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

If one has the power to blanket-pardon, then does it not make sense one has the power to grant blanket-citizenship to begin with?

Is that lawful?

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

 If we are going to let X people in, why not give preferential treatment to individuals who have already lived here, have valuable skills, have proven themselves good residents (no lawbreakers! no-fault illegal immigration status, aside), and - for the most part - already consider themselves to be American?

It's an unfortunate situation, and your approach makes sense, except it perpetuates the incentive for illegals to bring their kids here.  And what about the kid whose parents didn't break the law who can't come here because the kid whose parents did break the law gets priority?

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

If one has the power to blanket-pardon, then does it not make sense one has the power to grant blanket-citizenship to begin with?

Is that lawful?

I would say no.  The Constitution says, "...he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."

So he can pardon the crime that caused the illegal residency, but that does not make subsequent residency legal.  Kind of like saying if I steal your car, he can pardon me of the theft, but I don't get to keep the car.

Then again, they've found a lot of stuff in that document that isn't there, so...

[IsailedawayfromFR]

We have a current immigration policy that allows X number of people to get visas per year anyway. If we are going to let X people in, why not give preferential treatment to individuals who have already lived here, have valuable skills, have proven themselves good residents (no lawbreakers! no-fault illegal immigration status, aside), and - for the most part - already consider themselves to be American?

You bring up a good point: we should be allowing in people who improve America when we make decisions to grant them citizenship.

On the other hand, does it improve America in allowing someone who broke our laws to become a citizen?  Maybe, but there must be some type of restitution paid so as to discourage future lawbreakers.

We are a nation of laws first and foremost, otherwise we are not a nation at all.

[geronl]

They can only be pardoned one at a time for crimes they have committed

[bolobaby]

You bring up a good point: we should be allowing in people who improve America when we make decisions to grant them citizenship.

On the other hand, does it improve America in allowing someone who broke our laws to become a citizen?  Maybe, but there must be some type of restitution paid so as to discourage future lawbreakers.

We are a nation of laws first and foremost, otherwise we are not a nation at all.

@IsailedawayfromFR

Dreamers like the guy I mention are about as much a law-breaker as a baby sitting in a getaway car are abettors in a bank robbery.

Now - he is currently an adult and fully aware that he was brought here illegally. I have a hard time with the question of whether or not he should immediately self-deport. Ask yourself this: if you suddenly discovered your past was a lie, and you were not really a US citizen, would *you* self-deport?

So, I'm hard pressed to call this guy a law-breaker. His parents, yes; him, no.

See my next response to another poster for more.

[bolobaby]

It's an unfortunate situation, and your approach makes sense, except it perpetuates the incentive for illegals to bring their kids here.  And what about the kid whose parents didn't break the law who can't come here because the kid whose parents did break the law gets priority?

@InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

While it does incentivize parents to bring their kids here, there are two major drawbacks:

1. Anyone who self-identifies is also potentially outing their family as law breakers. So, these folks get a chance to fix their problem, but their parents might be headed for a ten year vacation back in their home country. Tough choice, but at least we can say that we have the "innocent" Dreamer a chance.

2. The incentive dries up fast because of the seniority issue. Plus, you put out an opt-in period, after which the deal is off and everyone is subject to deportation. Anyone stupid enough to try and sneak in during opt-in would never make the seniority list high enough anyway.

Remember - I also support some pretty draconian measures when it comes to illegals anyway, such as making renting or providing mortgages to them a crime, since it aids in their crime of being here illegally. My goal would be to shut down their opportunities completely - no svhool, services, or any handout, so that they end up leaving the same way they came in - by walking across the border.

I would offer one benefit - a ticket home.

But for guys like my Dreamer friend, I would also grease the rails for them (not their parents) to return.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

@IsailedawayfromFR

Dreamers like the guy I mention are about as much a law-breaker as a baby sitting in a getaway car are abettors in a bank robbery.

Now - he is currently an adult and fully aware that he was brought here illegally. I have a hard time with the question of whether or not he should immediately self-deport. Ask yourself this: if you suddenly discovered your past was a lie, and you were not really a US citizen, would *you* self-deport?

So, I'm hard pressed to call this guy a law-breaker. His parents, yes; him, no.

See my next response to another poster for more.

I do not dispute your assessment that the guy is a good guy.

My only point is the rationale to seek that the laws of this country are obeyed. 
We degrade as a nation if we do not be very, very selective on choosing who we should allow to skirt those laws.

I am of the opinion that some, like your friend, might be able to pay the piper by say, serving in military for __ years.

Realizing he was not the one who chose to disobey our laws, it may sound tough on him, but we cannot ever encourage law-breaking without somehow having consequences.

[bolobaby]

I do not dispute your assessment that the guy is a good guy.

My only point is the rationale to seek that the laws of this country are obeyed. 
We degrade as a nation if we do not be very, very selective on choosing who we should allow to skirt those laws.

I am of the opinion that some, like your friend, might be able to pay the piper by say, serving in military for __ years.

Realizing he was not the one who chose to disobey our laws, it may sound tough on him, but we cannot ever encourage law-breaking without somehow having consequences.

@IsailedawayfromFR

Ooooh. I like that, actually. So, in the plan I laid out above, offer a 3a:

3a. Immediately offer the Dreamer an option to sign up for the US military. Only do this for Dreamers who have spent a minimum of X years in the country (to ensure loyalty) and who would be otherwise eligible for recruiting. If the Dreamer accepts this option, the Dreamer may stay in country in lieu of immediately being deported and having to secure a new visa.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

@IsailedawayfromFR

Ooooh. I like that, actually. So, in the plan I laid out above, offer a 3a:

3a. Immediately offer the Dreamer an option to sign up for the US military. Only do this for Dreamers who have spent a minimum of X years in the country (to ensure loyalty) and who would be otherwise eligible for recruiting. If the Dreamer accepts this option, the Dreamer may stay in country in lieu of immediately being deported and having to secure a new visa.

Right on, although we need to be careful that our military does not become an All Dreamer army, I could accept a guy who pledges loyalty in that manner.  Military guys always deserve respect in my book/

[MajorClay]

have valuable skills

Key phrase