Author Topic: Of All Things to Consider, Consider Repealing Public Broadcasting  (Read 16473 times)

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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Of All Things to Consider, Consider Repealing Public Broadcasting
« Reply #50 on: November 15, 2016, 11:15:52 pm »
"I agree that NPR is far worse than PBS, but that doesn't mean PBS is without its leftwing bias."

@Suppressed

So what? EVERYBODY is biased,including thee and me. You will never learn a damn thing,including what your political enemies are up to if you only have access to one side of the arguments.

"Are college/university stations controlled at the state or local level, or by the institution?  A lot of public stations are attached to institutions."

I have no clue how that works. It never even occurred to me to think about it.


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Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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Re: Of All Things to Consider, Consider Repealing Public Broadcasting
« Reply #51 on: November 16, 2016, 10:30:01 pm »

@To-Whose-Benefit?

When did PBS become "the press"?

Everytime they report/broadcast their version of events in the public arena: IE, the news.

The Press is not The Press unless it's printed on dead, pulped trees?
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Offline To-Whose-Benefit?

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Re: Of All Things to Consider, Consider Repealing Public Broadcasting
« Reply #52 on: November 16, 2016, 10:53:18 pm »
@To-Whose-Benefit?

PBS is the Press? Since when?


Perhaps we might consult James Madison regarding Constitutional Intent restricting Federal Over reach, here?

http://www.constitution.org/jm/18170303_veto.htm

March 3, 1817

To the House of Representatives of the United States:

Having considered the bill this day presented to me entitled "An act to set apart and pledge certain funds for internal improvements," and which sets apart and pledges funds "for constructing roads and canals, and improving the navigation of water courses, in order to facilitate, promote, and give security to internal commerce among the several States, and to render more easy and less expensive the means and provisions for the common defense," I am constrained by the insuperable difficulty I feel in reconciling the bill with the Constitution of the United States to return it with that objection to the House of Representatives, in which it originated.

The legislative powers vested in Congress are specified and enumerated in the eighth section of the first article of the Constitution, and it does not appear that the power proposed to be exercised by the bill is among the enumerated powers, or that it falls by any just interpretation with the power to make laws necessary and proper for carrying into execution those or other powers vested by the Constitution in the Government of the United States.

"The power to regulate commerce among the several States" can not include a power to construct roads and canals, and to improve the navigation of water courses in order to facilitate, promote, and secure such commerce without a latitude of construction departing from the ordinary import of the terms strengthened by the known inconveniences which doubtless led to the grant of this remedial power to Congress.

To refer the power in question to the clause "to provide for common defense and general welfare" would be contrary to the established and consistent rules of interpretation, as rendering the special and careful enumeration of powers which follow the clause nugatory and improper. Such a view of the Constitution would have the effect of giving to Congress a general power of legislation instead of the defined and limited one hitherto understood to belong to them, the terms "common defense and general welfare" embracing every object and act within the purview of a legislative trust. It would have the effect of subjecting both the Constitution and laws of the several States in all cases not specifically exempted to be superseded by laws of Congress, it being expressly declared "that the Constitution of the United States and laws made in pursuance thereof shall be the supreme law of the land, and the judges of every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding." Such a view of the Constitution, finally, would have the effect of excluding the judicial authority of the United States from its participation in guarding the boundary between the legislative powers of the General and the State Governments, inasmuch as questions relating to the general welfare, being questions of policy and expediency, are unsusceptible of judicial cognizance and decision.

A restriction of the power "to provide for the common defense and general welfare" to cases which are to be provided for by the expenditure of money would still leave within the legislative power of Congress all the great and most important measures of Government, money being the ordinary and necessary means of carrying them into execution.

If a general power to construct roads and canals, and to improve the navigation of water courses, with the train of powers incident thereto, be not possessed by Congress, the assent of the States in the mode provided in the bill can not confer the power. The only cases in which the consent and cession of particular States can extend the power of Congress are those specified and provided for in the Constitution.

I am not unaware of the great importance of roads and canals and the improved navigation of water courses, and that a power in the National Legislature to provide for them might be exercised with signal advantage to the general prosperity. But seeing that such a power is not expressly given by the Constitution, and believing that it can not be deduced from any part of it without an inadmissible latitude of construction and reliance on insufficient precedents; believing also that the permanent success of the Constitution depends on a definite partition of powers between the General and the State Governments, and that no adequate landmarks would be left by the constructive extension of the powers of Congress as proposed in the bill, I have no option but to withhold my signature from it, and to cherishing the hope that its beneficial objects may be attained by a resort for the necessary powers to the same wisdom and virtue in the nation which established the Constitution in its actual form and providently marked out in the instrument itself a safe and practicable mode of improving it as experience might suggest.

James Madison,
President of the United States


The issue of Highways and Roads has been raised here.

Constitutionally, the Federal Govt Does have the Constitutional Authority and Responsibility to build and maintain them under the purview of the Postal Service.

The Federal Dept of Transportation properly belongs under the control of the Postal Service who are tasked with providing Post Roads to deliver the Mail.

It belongs there due to the simple expediency that NONE of us as private Citizens can afford to build our own roads and highways.

Beyond that, I see no other issues with President Madison's Veto, Which, if he were writing it today, would take the advance of technology unforeseen by himself, into account.

When did PBS become the Press?

Electronic media isn't The Press?

PBS is the US Govt version of PRAVDA no matter how many non-political minutes of arts and crafts it broadcasts.
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Of All Things to Consider, Consider Repealing Public Broadcasting
« Reply #53 on: November 16, 2016, 11:00:52 pm »
"The legislative powers vested in Congress are specified and enumerated in the eighth section of the first article of the Constitution"

James Madison,  March 3, 1817
« Last Edit: November 16, 2016, 11:01:19 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Of All Things to Consider, Consider Repealing Public Broadcasting
« Reply #54 on: November 17, 2016, 12:54:39 am »
Everytime they report/broadcast their version of events in the public arena: IE, the news.

The Press is not The Press unless it's printed on dead, pulped trees?

@To-Whose-Benefit?

Ok,you just admitting you don't watch PBS,and are just repeating what other people who don't watch PBS are babbling.

There is VERY little news on PBS. I sometimes watch BBC on PBS for an alternate look at opinions of things that are happening all over the world,but that's about it.

From what I have seen it IS true that most of the reporters that work on shows like "Frontline" tend to have a leftist/globalist POV,but not all of them,and in general viewers get a balanced report on whatever the subject is. I have seen both pro-illegal alien as well as anti-illegal alien reports on Frontline Specials.

Having said that,political programming on PBS is just a tiny part of what they broadcast. You don't have to believe me,you can watch it for a few weeks and find out for yourself.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Of All Things to Consider, Consider Repealing Public Broadcasting
« Reply #55 on: November 17, 2016, 12:57:07 am »

Perhaps we might consult James Madison regarding Constitutional Intent restricting Federal Over reach, here?

http://www.constitution.org/jm/18170303_veto.htm
 

@To-Whose-Benefit?

I didn't even bother to read it. You obviously have an agenda,and you are not about to allow the truth to get in the way.

When you start out with a false premise,everything that follows is shit.
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Of All Things to Consider, Consider Repealing Public Broadcasting
« Reply #56 on: November 17, 2016, 01:09:17 am »
@To-Whose-Benefit?

I didn't even bother to read it. You obviously have an agenda,and you are not about to allow the truth to get in the way.

When you start out with a false premise,everything that follows is shit.

So you don't care what James Madison or the Constitution has to say you just want your way no matter what.  Hummm!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Of All Things to Consider, Consider Repealing Public Broadcasting
« Reply #57 on: November 17, 2016, 01:19:12 am »
So you don't care what James Madison or the Constitution has to say you just want your way no matter what.  Hummm!

@Bigun

Nope,because you have an agenda,and are going to interpret  it in a way that agrees with your biases. Nothing I can say or do will change that,so why bother? It's dogma amongst Republicans that PBS is "evil" because it has the world public in it.

BTW,do you REALLY think that Madison spent much time contemplating the issue of public television and if it was a good or a bad thing?
« Last Edit: November 17, 2016, 01:21:08 am by sneakypete »
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Of All Things to Consider, Consider Repealing Public Broadcasting
« Reply #58 on: November 17, 2016, 01:22:30 am »
@Bigun

Nope,because you have an agenda,and are going to interpret  it in a way that agrees with your biases. Nothing I can say or do will change that,so why bother? It's dogma amongst Republicans that PBS is "evil" because it has the world public in it.

BTW,do you REALLY think that Madison spent much time contemplating the issue of public television and if it was a good or a bad thing?

 **nononono*
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Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Of All Things to Consider, Consider Repealing Public Broadcasting
« Reply #59 on: November 17, 2016, 01:55:18 am »

Why not run NPR/PBS as a non-profit or cooperative?
PBS is run as a cooperative.
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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Of All Things to Consider, Consider Repealing Public Broadcasting
« Reply #60 on: November 17, 2016, 02:17:34 am »
PBS is run as a cooperative.


Shouldn't need gubment funds then.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Of All Things to Consider, Consider Repealing Public Broadcasting
« Reply #61 on: November 17, 2016, 02:32:07 am »

Shouldn't need gubment funds then.

@Weird Tolkienish Figure


It is either public or private. If it is public,the government and the taxpayers have input when it comes to programming. If it is private it exists to turn a profit,not expand the education of children as well as adults. The idea behind public television was to have shows broadcast that would most likely not draw a large audience and bring in advertising money.

It can be one or the other,but it can't be both.

I see all these people complaining about public tv,and it's obvious none of you ever watch it.
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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Of All Things to Consider, Consider Repealing Public Broadcasting
« Reply #62 on: November 17, 2016, 09:04:57 am »
@Weird Tolkienish Figure


It is either public or private. If it is public,the government and the taxpayers have input when it comes to programming. If it is private it exists to turn a profit,not expand the education of children as well as adults. The idea behind public television was to have shows broadcast that would most likely not draw a large audience and bring in advertising money.

It can be one or the other,but it can't be both.

I see all these people complaining about public tv,and it's obvious none of you ever watch it.


I don't care about PBS/NPR, you are right in that it's a drop in the bucket. I grew up watching Mr. Rogers and Sesame Street. I don't really watch TV at all.


In the scheme of things, ideologically I am against it, but in reality it's a small expenditure, and I have been listening to NPR lately. To me it's not worth getting worked up about.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Of All Things to Consider, Consider Repealing Public Broadcasting
« Reply #63 on: November 17, 2016, 01:54:08 pm »
@Weird Tolkienish Figure
I see all these people complaining about public tv,and it's obvious none of you ever watch it.

A characteristically cavalier comment.

Pray how do you know this?
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Of All Things to Consider, Consider Repealing Public Broadcasting
« Reply #64 on: November 17, 2016, 02:05:29 pm »
@Weird Tolkienish Figure


It is either public or private. If it is public,the government and the taxpayers have input when it comes to programming. If it is private it exists to turn a profit,not expand the education of children as well as adults. The idea behind public television was to have shows broadcast that would most likely not draw a large audience and bring in advertising money.

It can be one or the other,but it can't be both.

I see all these people complaining about public tv,and it's obvious none of you ever watch it.

You're right, and all of us who don't watch it shouldn't have to pay for it.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Of All Things to Consider, Consider Repealing Public Broadcasting
« Reply #65 on: November 17, 2016, 02:19:19 pm »
You're right, and all of us who don't watch it shouldn't have to pay for it.

The fella you directed this to believes you do not pay for it.  Alternate universe, http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,233751.msg1138608.html#msg1138608
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Of All Things to Consider, Consider Repealing Public Broadcasting
« Reply #66 on: November 17, 2016, 02:39:45 pm »
The fella you directed this to believes you do not pay for it.  Alternate universe, http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,233751.msg1138608.html#msg1138608

Oh, I missed that.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Of All Things to Consider, Consider Repealing Public Broadcasting
« Reply #67 on: November 17, 2016, 03:16:38 pm »

... I have been listening to NPR lately. To me it's not worth getting worked up about.

@Weird Tolkienish Figure

You got me there. I can't remember EVER listening to NPR. The truth is if I listen to the radio,it is for music. Talk radio in all it's forms has never appealed to me at all.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2016, 03:17:04 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Of All Things to Consider, Consider Repealing Public Broadcasting
« Reply #68 on: November 17, 2016, 03:18:04 pm »
A characteristically cavalier comment.

Pray how do you know this?

@IsailedawayfromFR

Your ignorance of the subject is on display for everyone to see.

Your dogma is flat chewing your ass UP,
« Last Edit: November 17, 2016, 03:18:47 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Of All Things to Consider, Consider Repealing Public Broadcasting
« Reply #69 on: November 17, 2016, 03:35:00 pm »
Having someone who lies in how funding occurs, then will not admit the lie and instead attack others, is the resume of a liberal.

@IsailedawayfromFR

LOL! Doesn't sound to me like you sailed away from FR. You don't leave if you take it with you,bubba,and NOTHING screams "ignorant fool" like calling someone else a "liberal" while trying to pose as a "conservative".  If there were any truth in advertising laws in effect for web posts,you would be required to register as an "Apprentice Dumb Ass,hoping to learn enough to become a Complete Dumb Ass".

In FACT,I AM a "Liberal". So were the Founding Fathers. Yet you seem to think that is a bad thing to be because you are so ignorant you depend on the Fascist Left for political definitions,and then believe them without question. In AMERICA,being a Patriotic American that believes in the US Constitution including the Bill of Rights  MEANS  YOU ARE A CONSERVATIVE BECAUSE YOU ARE SUPPORTING A LIBERAL FORM OF GOVERNMENT INSTEAD OF A DOMINATING POLICE STATE.

Then again,if you are happy to follow the Euro-weenie definitions of words and politics instead of American ones,have at it.

Just like you believe the morons that rant against PBS without question or even bothering to watch it for a while to make up your own mind proves you are a mindless sheeple. Assuming of course that you have a mind to make up and don't rely on radio talk show monkeys ranting into a microphone to tell you what to think.

 

We taxpayers are paying for PBS.  It makes no difference if it is a good program or if others pay it too.  The attention is on whether taxpayers should be on the hook for it.  I happen to believe no.

What will you do with the 37 cent tax refund you would get,go on vacation? This is where you are going to tell me that it is the principle of the thing that is important,not the reality,right?  I guess you want the government to tear down bridges you don't drive across too,right? Maybe disband the FAA and fire all the air traffic controllers because you don't fly?

You seem to support paying for it with taxpayer dollars, correct?

Yes. Informing the public IS one of the basic  requirements of government. If they can sometimes also entertain while they teach history and science,it's a bonus.

 
« Last Edit: November 17, 2016, 03:40:40 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Of All Things to Consider, Consider Repealing Public Broadcasting
« Reply #70 on: November 17, 2016, 03:57:57 pm »
And therein is a big issue.

Our Founding Fathers believed the purpose of government is not serving needs, but instead to protect life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.  Most did not believe the government was to provide but for freedom and to get out of the way and let citizens provide for their own needs.

Thomas Jefferson: 

        The purpose of government is to maintain a society which secures to every member the inherent and inalienable rights of man, and promotes the safety and happiness of its people. Protecting these rights from violation, therefore, is its primary obligation."

DAYUM! You make one claim,and then contradict yourself by posting  your "evidence".

Unless maybe you don't think "maintain a society which secures to every member the inherent and inalienable rights of man, and promotes the safety and happiness of its people. Protecting these rights from violation, therefore, is its primary obligation." is a NEED?

Maybe you don't think the history shows broadcast on PBS that educate people who are otherwise ignorant of history because they slept during school doesn't provide a public service that fills a need that benefits America?


"And what the Federal govt should be doing vs state and local governments is another thing."

If you had paid attention to what I wrote,you would have read my post that the states provide most of the funding for PBS that doesn't come from public donations. EACH PBS station that broadcasts is controlled by the state where it is located. The ONLY federal money that goes to PBS is for administration between the feral and state governments.

 " Most believed the federal government's role should be reduced to a few necessary items such as defense, diplomacy and tariffs to protect indigenous business."

People believe all sorts of stupid shit. There are still people that don't believe we landed men on the moon,and there are billions of people in the world that believe some Big Ranger in the Sky is going to swoop down from the sky one day in the future,and snatch them out of their graves to reunite them with their loving,and also dead,families. ALL they have to do to assure this happens is donate a percentage of their income to the cult of their choice,and it WILL happen,you betcha!


"If local PBS wishes to extract government money from taxpayers to broadcast, why not from state or local entities rather than forcing all Americans to pay tribute?"

That is EXACTLY what they do. EACH PBS station is OWNED BY THE STATE IT IS LOCATED IN.

That's why IF you would watch PBS you would would see mentioned during the credits of a lot of shows credits a notice saying something like "produced (or Provided) by Boston PBS","Chicago PBS",etc,etc,etc. They are identified by city because there is more than one PBS station creating,producing,and broadcasting shows in most states. They then rent or lease this original programs to PBS stations in other states to pay off the production costs and sometime turn a profit they use to produce more "free to the public" broadcasting. They use some of that money to lease shows from BBC like Masterpiece Theater,Sherlock,etc,etc,etc.

You have a problem with that?


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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Of All Things to Consider, Consider Repealing Public Broadcasting
« Reply #71 on: November 17, 2016, 04:06:45 pm »

Why not run NPR/PBS as a non-profit or cooperative?

@Weird Tolkienish Figure

It IS to everyone except the dogmatic with an agenda. Local and state tax money goes towards producing and then leasing original programing to other PBS stations as well as private stations,and the money from those leases goes back into the state coffers.

No,I don't have any idea of the numbers or percentages,and I doubt anyone else does either because each state is it's own kingdom. Two of the most prominent PBS stations seem to be in Chicago and Boston,so you can be sure they pull in a LOT more money from renting original content to other stations than a PBS station in Nebraska,for example. States with larger tax bases obviously have more money to invest in original programming to lease to other PBS stations and private stations.

I have no idea how much original PBS programming gets leased to tv stations outside of America,but since American PBS leases a lot of BBC programming,it stands to reason they must lease at least SOME American original PBS programming. As one example,I am guessing the recent PBS series on the Civil War was leased to a lot of European tv stations. I am also GUESSING a lot of the nature programs created by local PBS stations are also sold to European tv stations. Most people enjoy viewing programs about nature,regardless of where they live. The one example that comes to mind that is likely to have been leased is the one about the guy in the northeast that build a untra-lite airplane and became a "mother" to Canadian Geese hatchlings in Canada. He raised and fed them,and when the time came for them to migrate south for the winter,he fired up his untra-lite and led them south,like Moses crossing the desert. Shows like that appeal to people everywhere.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2016, 04:09:49 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Of All Things to Consider, Consider Repealing Public Broadcasting
« Reply #72 on: November 17, 2016, 04:21:58 pm »
If it is so good and useful why can it not stand or fail on it's own merits in the marketplace? Why does it need to be propped up with my tax money?

@biggun

Why not spend a couple of weeks educating yourself by watching your local PBS station,instead of relying on someone else to tell you what to think?

The FACT that you still think PBS relies on your tax money only goes to prove the people you have been listening to in the past have either been lying to you,or most likely giving you wrong information they believed themselves.

EACH PBS production ends with the moderator stating something like "PBS is offered to you be contributions made from x,y,z,and your local stations". If you had ever watched it,you would know this.

BTW,if you ever decide it wouldn't be harmful to open your mind to other possibilities,I highly recommend you focus your PBS-viewing attention on BBC programing at first. Shows like Foyle's War,danger UXB,Masterpiece Mystery,English history like "The Tudors",etc,etc,etc. Or progamming like nature shows,the most prominent being named "Nature",oddly enough.

Some programs,like "Frontline" have a polical base,and will piss you off as often as they please you because sometime they show the leftist viewpoint. The good news is you will be getting the unvarnished leftist POV without any filters or explanations or excuses,and it is ALWAYS better to see the enemy how they see themselves than it is to have some professional talking head filter if for you and explains it to fit HIS agenda. Other times they show similar programs from the American conservative POV,and chances are you will be shocked to see it and need some time to adjust.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Of All Things to Consider, Consider Repealing Public Broadcasting
« Reply #73 on: November 17, 2016, 04:24:19 pm »
No, it's not.  YOU meet your own damn needs.  Not me and and not the government.

@Sanguine

Yeah,causen you are a special little snowflake,and the only things in life that are important are what YOU  want,right?

What's keeping you from moving to a island somewhere or going to live in a cave so you don't have to be concerned with what other people want?
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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Of All Things to Consider, Consider Repealing Public Broadcasting
« Reply #74 on: November 17, 2016, 04:25:01 pm »
SP, so I guess you have strong feeling on PBS huh?