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Online Smokin Joe

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Measuring the Future
« on: November 09, 2016, 03:45:15 PM »
First, congratulations to Donald Trump, Mike Pence, and their supporters on this presidential election win. Hillary Clinton has been defeated, and the waning days of the Obama Administration are all that stands between America and a different political future.

As that torch is passed, let us not slip into that post-election somnolent euphoria that seems so common among those who would change the directions of governments and nations. Rather, let's recall the things which were promised to the electorate who elevated this man to the highest office in the United States of America, as a reminder that this is, after all, what the electorate has been told to expect in exchange for their support, their contributions, and their votes.

It is not enough to measure a Trump Administration by being 'not Hillary', nor is it valid to justify the actions or inaction of such with comparisons to assertions of what she might have done, given the opportunity. No, in order to measure the performance of the new administration, it becomes necessary to establish a new metric, one which cannot be distorted by the pressures of situational ethos, but which remains as well rooted and solid as the very tower which bears his name.

Rather than impose the unfair yardstick of the desires of those of us who did not support Mr. Trump for whatever reason (often because he was not conservative enough in our opinion), or to even impose our arduous criteria in terms of conduct, governance, or even policy, a better metric must be found.

What better guide to the performance of this budding administration than the very promises of the candidate himself as he traveled and sought votes and support? Those promises of action, inaction, policy, revocation of policy, regardless of this writer's opinion of them, form a roadmap of the path by which he has led his followers to support him, and the roadmap of stated intent of his administration. By this he has established a list of goals to be accomplished, and by which he can be measured without the inconvenience of having others place demands upon him he, himself, did not embrace.

Certainly, some of those demands are immutable, codified in the Constitution and other laws, and will be expected to be adhered to as the oath of office requires. These, however are the intonations of policy to which we were treated and by which we were entreatied for support. Let them now become the metric by which his performance is measured.

Tim Murphy at Mother Jones has started the process, as pointed out to me by @Resp3 and the link to Tim's article is here http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/09/donald-trump-first-day-in-office for those who would like to read it in its entirety. It also has links which back up each of the bullet points below, which are a brief summary of the things Mr. Trump has promised. It is messy, but supporting links are provided to each, and I won't take credit for any of that, it is Tim Murphy's work, presented in blue.

    :blank: "Repeal every single Obama executive order."
       http://www.dailypress.com/news/politics/dp-nws-pence-20160920-story.html
      (He has also pledged more specifically to "eliminate every unconstitutional executive order.")
       https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/trump-speech-clinton-email-corruption-disqualifies-her-from-seeking-preside

     :blank:"Repeal Obamacare."
        http://www.dailypress.com/news/politics/dp-nws-pence-20160920-story.html
       (On Trump's campaign website, he's less bullish, promising only to "ask Congress" on day one to repeal Obamacare
        immediately.)

     :blank:"End the war on coal."
       http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/290798-pence-trump-will-end-the-war-on-coal

     :blank:"Begin swiftly removing criminal illegal immigrants from this country." (More specifically, Trump has promised to do this in his
       "first hour" in office, "day one, before the wall, before anything.") https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/trump-says-on-day-one-he-is-removing-criminal-illegal-immigrants/2016/08/27/a0a546d6-6c98-11e6-91cb-ecb5418830e9_video.html


     :blank:"Begin working on an impenetrable, physical, tall, powerful, beautiful, southern border wall."http://www.nbcnews.com/video/trump-touts-technology-plan-for-border-wall-755544643686

     :blank: Meet with Homeland Security officials and generals to begin securing the southern border.http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/05/us/politics/donald-trump-president.html?_r=0

     :blank:"Notify all countries that refuse to take back dangerous illegal immigrants who have committed crimes in this country that
       they will lose access to our visa programs if they continue to do so."https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/trump-speech-clinton-email-corruption-disqualifies-her-from-seeking-preside

    :blank: Convene his top generals and inform them they have 30 days to come up with a plan to stop ISIS.http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/donald-trump-isil-isis-227807

     :blank: Fix the Department of Veterans Affairs.http://www.dailypress.com/news/politics/dp-nws-pence-20160920-story.html

     :blank: Call the heads of major companies who are moving operations oversea to inform them that they'll face 35 percent tariffs. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/05/us/politics/donald-trump-president.html?_r=0

     :blank:"Contact countries and say…'Folks, we love protecting you, we want to continue to protect you but you're not living up
       to the bargain'…They're not paying what they're supposed to be paying—which is very little, by the way."https://soundcloud.com/rightwingwatch/trump-on-day-one

     :blank:"Defend the unborn."http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/pence-trump-administration-will-begin-fight-against-abortion-rights-day-one

     :blank:"Withdraw from TPP."http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/28/donald-trump-gets-to-specifics-during-trade-speech/

     :blank:"Start taking care of our…military."http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2016/02/24/preview-gop-debate-one-day-to-go-mattingly-lead-dnt.cnn

     :blank: Suspend Syrian refugee resettlement.http://indianexpress.com/article/world/world-news/us-presidential-elections-2016-if-elected-it-would-be-busy-first-day-at-white-house-donald-trump-3017760/

     :blank:"Notify our NAFTA partners of my intention to renegotiate the deal."https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/trump-speech-clinton-email-corruption-disqualifies-her-from-seeking-preside

     :blank:"Designate China as a currency manipulator."https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/us-china-trade-reform

     :blank:"Direct every agency in government to begin identifying all wasteful job-killing regulations, and they are going to
       be removed."https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/trump-speech-clinton-email-corruption-disqualifies-her-from-seeking-preside

     :blank:"Get rid of gun-free zones [in] schools" and "military bases"—which would require repealing a 25-year-old federal law. ("My
       first day, it gets signed, okay? My first day. There's no more gun-free zones.")https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/01/08/donald-trump-i-will-get-rid-of-gun-free-zones-on-schools/


     :blank: "Ask Congress to pass 'Kate's Law'—named for Kate Steinle—to ensure that criminal aliens convicted of illegal reentry
       receive strong mandatory minimum sentences."http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/08/31/donald-trump-throws-down-in-phoenix-champions-10-step-immigration-reform-plan/

     :blank: Learn the difference between Hezbollah and Hamas.http://www.hughhewitt.com/donald-trump-on-the-day-he-took-the-pledge/

Again, this list and the link roundup (the blue text above) was done by Tim Murphy at Mother Jones, and he should get the credit for that, after all, it's his work. Here's a link to that article: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/09/donald-trump-first-day-in-office


Now, these are just a few of the things which have been promised, and in fairness, some of these were promised by Mike Pence, but I think this is a good place to start. Feel free folks, to add others and please provide links to the statement or source for future reference.

By the way, while these were promised on 'day one', for the most part, I'd be quite content to see those I agree with which would not overextend the authority vested in the Office of President of the United States of America by the Constitution accomplished in the first year.

While some of these do exceed the authority of the Office of President, and would require (at a minimum) Congressional cooperation, it is an often noble list of aspirations. My problems with Mr. Trump were not wholly on stated policy, but primarily on credibility and actual intent.

This is not an attack, any more than a scorecard is an attack on a golfer or a maintenance checklist is an attack on an airplane, but presented as his own list of goals. I have even said I'd give him 364 extra days to git 'er done.

Please feel free to add others, if you so choose.

Edit: See post 27 for additional campaign promises.
Edit on November 23, 2016: This was done to copy post 27 (and the list therein onto the list above. No effort will be made to remove redundancy in order to preserve the original lists as they were quoted from their sources. Colors will be changed to red for apparent reneged promises or serious modifications thereof, orange for confirmed  broken promises. Those kept or pending will remain blue.

Quote
More promises: Compiled by Jenna Johnson, in the Washington Post article at the link Additional commentary and links are available there. Note: These may overlap the ones in the initial post. Again, this is done in the spirit of being able to compare stated goals with performance, and is not intended to commend nor decry Mr Trump, the President-elect.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/01/22/here-are-76-of-donald-trumps-many-campaign-promises/

Quote
1. Build a wall along the southern border that's taller than the arenas where Trump holds his rallies, taller than any ladder and one foot taller than the Great Wall of China. This "artistically beautiful" wall will be constructed out of hardened concrete, rebar and steel, and it will be "the greatest wall that you've ever seen" -- so great that the nation will likely one day name it "The Trump Wall."

2. Make Mexico pay for the wall. If Mexico refuses, then the United States will impound all remittance payments taken from the wages of illegal immigrants, cut foreign aid, institute tariffs, cancel visas for Mexican business leaders and diplomats, and increase fees for visas, border-crossing cards and port use.

3. "If I become president, we're all going to be saying 'Merry Christmas' again."

4. Get rid of Common Core because it's "a disaster" and a "very bad thing." Trump says he wants to give local school districts more control and might even eliminate the Department of Education.

5. The Environmental Protection Agency might also disappear.

6. Get rid of Obamacare and replace it with something "terrific" that is "so much better, so much better, so much better."


7. Knock down the regulatory walls between states for health insurance, making plans available nationally instead of regionally.

8. Rebuild the country's aging infrastructure -- especially bridges and airports that look like they belong in a third-world country -- for one-third of what the United States is currently paying for such projects.

9. Save Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security without cutting benefits.

10. Defund Planned Parenthood.

11. "I will take care of women, and I have great respect for women. I do cherish women, and I will take care of women."

12. Frequently use the term "radical Islamic terrorism."

13. Temporarily ban most foreign Muslims from entering the United States "until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on." Trump would allow exceptions for dignitaries, business people, athletes and others who have "proven" themselves.

14. Bar Syrian refugees from entering the country and kick out any who are already living here. Trump says wealthy Persian Gulf nations like Saudi Arabia should pay to set up a heavily guarded "safe zone" in Syria.

15. Heavily surveil mosques in the United States. Trump has said he's open to the idea of closing some mosques.

16. Create a database of Syrian refugees. Trump hasn't ruled out creating a database of Muslims in the country.

17. Never take a vacation while serving as president.

18. Prosecute Hillary Clinton for her use of a private e-mail server while serving as secretary of state.
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,235298.0/topicseen.html
pending verification.


19. Make medical marijuana widely available to patients, and allow states to decide if they want to fully legalize pot or not.

20. Stop spending money on space exploration until the United States can fix its potholes. Encourage private space-exploration companies to expand.

21. Pick Supreme Court justices who are "really great legal scholars."

22. Ensure that Iowa continues to host the nation's first presidential nominating contest.

23. Strengthen the military so that it's "so big and so strong and so great" that "nobody's going to mess with us."

24. Be unpredictable. "No one is going to touch us, because I'm so unpredictable."

25. Allow Russia to deal with the Islamic State in Syria and/or work with Russian President Vladimir Putin to wipe out shared enemies.

26. "Bomb the s--- out of ISIS." Also bomb oil fields controlled by the Islamic State, then seize the oil and give the profits to military veterans who were wounded while fighting.

27. Target and kill the relatives of terrorists.

28. Shut down parts of the Internet so that Islamic State terrorists cannot use it to recruit American children.

29. Bring back waterboarding, which the Obama administration considers torture. Trump has said he's willing to use interrogation techniques that go even further than waterboarding. Even if such tactics don't work, "they deserve it anyway, for what they're doing."

30. Leave troops in Afghanistan because it's such "a mess." Protect Israel. And increase U.S. military presence in the East and South China Seas.

31. Find an "out" clause in the Iran deal and then "totally" renegotiate the whole thing.

32. "I promise I will never be in a bicycle race. That I can tell you." (This promise is connected to criticism of Secretary of State John F. Kerry, who was injured while riding a bicycle amid the Iran negotiations.)

33. Refuse to call Iran's leader by his preferred title. "I guarantee you I will be never calling him the Supreme Leader... I'll say, 'Hey baby, how ya doing?' I will never call him the Supreme Leader."

34. Negotiate the release of all U.S. prisoners held in Iran before taking office. > snip <

35. Oppose the killing of journalists: "I hate some of these people, but I would never kill them."

36. Find great generals -- like the next Gen. Patton or Gen. MacArthur -- and do not allow them to go onto television news shows to explain their military strategy: "I don't want my generals being interviewed, I want my generals kicking a--." > snip<

37. Drop that "dirty, rotten traitor" Bowe Bergdahl out of an airplane into desolate Afghanistan without a parachute.

38. Fire "the corrupt and incompetent" leaders of the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs and dramatically reform the agency. Allow veterans to take their military identification card to any medical facility that accepts Medicaid patients to receive care. Embed satellite VA clinics in rural hospitals and underserved areas, and ensure than every VA hospital is permanently staffed with OBGYN doctors.

39. Invest more heavily in programs that help military veterans transition back to civilian life, including job training and placement services. Also increase funding for the treatment of post-traumatic stress disorder, traumatic brain injuries and mental health issues. Veterans who apply for a job at a VA facility will have five points added to their qualifying scores.

40. Bring back jobs from China -- and Mexico, Japan and elsewhere.

41. "I will be the greatest jobs president that God ever created." Trump says cities like Reno, Nev., will "be a big fat beautiful beneficiary" of these new jobs.

42. Students at Wofford College in South Carolina, where Trump attended a town hall, will all have jobs at graduation.

43. Aggressively challenge China's power in the world by declaring the country a currency manipulator, adopting a "zero tolerance policy on intellectual property theft and forced technology transfer" and cracking down on China's "lax labor and environmental standards."

44. Rather than throw the Chinese president a state dinner, buy him "a McDonald's hamburger and say we've got to get down to work."

45. Replace "free trade" with "fair trade." Gather together the "smartest negotiators in the world," assign them each a country and renegotiate all foreign trade deals.

46. Put billionaire hedge fund manager Carl Icahn in charge of trade negotiations with China and Japan, and pick an ambassador to Japan who is "a killer," unlike the current ambassador, Caroline Kennedy.

47. Tell Ford Motor Co.'s president that unless he cancels plans to build a massive plant in Mexico, the company will face a 35 percent tax on cars imported back into the United States. Trump is confident he can get this done before taking office. (Last year he incorrectly said this had already happened.)

48. Force Nabisco to once again make Oreos in the United States. And bully Apple into making its "damn computers" and other products here.

49. Impose new taxes on many imports into the country. Numbers thrown around have included 32 percent, 34 percent and 35 percent.

50. Grow the nation's economy by at least 6 percent.

51. Reduce the $18 trillion national debt by "vigorously eliminating waste, fraud and abuse in the federal government, ending redundant government programs and growing the economy to increase tax revenues."

52. Cut the budget by 20 percent by simply renegotiating.

53. Get rid of the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act.

54. Simplify the U.S. tax code and reduce the number of tax brackets from seven to four. The highest earners would pay a 25-percent tax. The corporate tax rate would fall to 15 percent. Eliminate the "marriage penalty" for taxpayers and get rid of the alternate minimum tax.

55. No longer charge income tax to single individuals earning less than $25,000 per year or couples earning less than $50,000. These people will, however, be required to file a one-page form with the Internal Revenue Service that states: "I win."

56. Ensure that Americans can still afford to golf.

57. Allow corporations a one-time window to transfer money being held overseas, charging a much-reduced 10 percent tax.

58. Get rid of most corporate tax loopholes or incentives, but continue to allow taxpayers to deduct mortgage interest and charitable donations from their taxes.

59. On his first day in office, Trump would get rid of gun-free zones at military bases and in schools.

60. Use "common sense" to fix the mental health system and prevent mass shootings. Find ways to arm more of the "good guys" like him who can take out the "sickos." Get rid of bans on certain types of guns and magazines so that "good, honest people" can own the guns of their choice.

61. Impose a minimum sentence of five years in federal prison for any violent felon who commits a crime using a gun, with no chance for parole or early release.

62. Fix the background check system used when purchasing guns to ensure states are properly uploading criminal and health records.

63. Allow concealed-carry permits to be recognized in all 50 states.

64. Sign an executive order calling for the death penalty for anyone found guilty of killing a police officer.

65. Provide more funding for police training.

66. And provide more funding for drug treatment, especially for heroin addicts.

67. On the first day in office, terminate President Obama's executive orders related to immigration. This includes getting rid of "sanctuary cities" that Trump says have become refuges for criminals.

68. Deport the almost 11 million immigrants illegally living in the United States.

69. Triple the number of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers.

70. Continue to allow lowly paid foreign workers to come to the United States on temporary works visas because Trump says they are the only ones who want to pick grapes.

71. End birthright citizenship.

72. Say things that are politically incorrect, because the country does not have time to waste with political correctness.

73. Make America great again -- and strong again, as it has become too weak.

74. Be a cheerleader for America and bring the country's spirit back. "Take the brand of the United States and make it great again."

75. Bring back the American Dream.

76. Start winning again. "We're going to win so much -- win after win after win -- that you're going to be begging me: 'Please, Mr. President, let us lose once or twice. We can't stand it any more.' And I'm going to say: 'No way. We're going to keep winning. We're never going to lose. We're never, ever going to lose."
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 06:57:23 PM by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
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And I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses. Nehemiah 4:14 (KJV)

About the only "Big" Liberals don't revile is "Big Government"

Online guitar4jesus

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Re: Measuring the Future
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2016, 04:28:41 PM »
BFL
If you place winning above integrity you have already lost.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Measuring the Future
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2016, 05:21:34 PM »
@Smokin Joe

Thanks,Joe!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: Measuring the Future
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2016, 06:10:47 PM »
BFL

Offline INVAR

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Re: Measuring the Future
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2016, 06:31:32 PM »
Thanks of that list and commentary Joe.

Given what Trump has been, and is - according to his fruits, statements and interviews, I do not expect much of that list to be accomplished or even attempted outside of lip service and perhaps some more kabuki theater.

I am immune from being disappointed in any failure of those things he said he would do from ever coming to fruition because I never believed he was serious about doing any of those things.   And, some of the things he said he intended to do - the Executive has no power to do or interfere with.

Low or non-existent expectations in Trump's leadership does provide me with the opportunity to be surprised in the positive, should he actually attempt to make good on those things beyond the rhetoric to placate the crowds and get votes, but I am not expecting much if any fulfillment at all.  i.e.:, Trump's stated plan to "fix" Obamacare is to do exactly what the Democrats intended Obamacare to achieve in the first place: to impose Single Payer and expand the mandate that every person in the country must be 'covered'.

What I am going to be most watchful of - is the circumvention, the sidestepping, or the wholesale ignoring of the Rule of Law and the Constitution that both parties, the Courts and the Obama regime have made SOP.   I think there is real danger in Trump following lawless precedents set by Obama, given his only experience is acting as a sole dictator (which all CEOs of your own corporation are).   This Republic is not a corporation, and the Constitution does not provide for Trump to run the country like his own private business.  He has imposed limits, and it is already disconcerting to read people who claim to be Conservative, opining and hoping that Trump use his own pen and phone as Obama has.

 I will be very sensitive to moves, statements and actions which will further entrench the Executive into the dictatorship the GOP leadership under Boehner, McConnell, Pelosi and Reid have already enabled and established.  I have no faith that Trump is going to slow, stop or reverse what we have been fundamentally transformed into already - but that said - I am better positioned to be pleasantly surprised should that discernment prove wrong.

But we are dealing with government - and chances are - my discernment about that is more correct than not.

We shall see.

“Fart for freedom, fart for liberty—and fart proudly.”  - Benjamin Franklin

“If we must have an enemy at the head of Government, let it be one whom we can oppose, and for whom we are not responsible, who will not involve our party in the disgrace of his foolish and bad measures.”  - Alexander Hamilton

Offline corbe

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Re: Measuring the Future
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2016, 06:44:52 PM »
   Thanks for Posting this, @Smokin Joe

No government in the 6,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don’t let this happen to you.

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Measuring the Future
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2016, 06:59:44 PM »
Thanks of that list and commentary Joe.

Given what Trump has been, and is - according to his fruits, statements and interviews, I do not expect much of that list to be accomplished or even attempted outside of lip service and perhaps some more kabuki theater.

I am immune from being disappointed in any failure of those things he said he would do from ever coming to fruition because I never believed he was serious about doing any of those things.   And, some of the things he said he intended to do - the Executive has no power to do or interfere with.

Low or non-existent expectations in Trump's leadership does provide me with the opportunity to be surprised in the positive, should he actually attempt to make good on those things beyond the rhetoric to placate the crowds and get votes, but I am not expecting much if any fulfillment at all.  i.e.:, Trump's stated plan to "fix" Obamacare is to do exactly what the Democrats intended Obamacare to achieve in the first place: to impose Single Payer and expand the mandate that every person in the country must be 'covered'.

What I am going to be most watchful of - is the circumvention, the sidestepping, or the wholesale ignoring of the Rule of Law and the Constitution that both parties, the Courts and the Obama regime have made SOP.   I think there is real danger in Trump following lawless precedents set by Obama, given his only experience is acting as a sole dictator (which all CEOs of your own corporation are).   This Republic is not a corporation, and the Constitution does not provide for Trump to run the country like his own private business.  He has imposed limits, and it is already disconcerting to read people who claim to be Conservative, opining and hoping that Trump use his own pen and phone as Obama has.

 I will be very sensitive to moves, statements and actions which will further entrench the Executive into the dictatorship the GOP leadership under Boehner, McConnell, Pelosi and Reid have already enabled and established.  I have no faith that Trump is going to slow, stop or reverse what we have been fundamentally transformed into already - but that said - I am better positioned to be pleasantly surprised should that discernment prove wrong.

But we are dealing with government - and chances are - my discernment about that is more correct than not.

We shall see.
You are welcome. I am adopting a wait and see attitude, too.
I think that if he does try to fulfill those promises he is Constitutionally Authorized to do, the GOPe Congress will try to sabotage that.  After all, they have been living fat off the Obama Regime, and their Conservative ratings have been in the toilet for many of them.
It is possible he will try to do none of those things.
And it is possible in that he may, out of ego or whatever motivation, try to do all of them and actually accomplish something.

Like stud poker, you play the cards you have. Folding is not an option at this point.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression
And I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses. Nehemiah 4:14 (KJV)

About the only "Big" Liberals don't revile is "Big Government"

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Measuring the Future
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2016, 07:22:40 PM »
   Thanks for Posting this, @Smokin Joe


You're welcome! Thanks for the Ethanol Lobby graphic!
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression
And I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses. Nehemiah 4:14 (KJV)

About the only "Big" Liberals don't revile is "Big Government"

Online bigheadfred

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Re: Measuring the Future
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2016, 07:29:31 PM »
One of the main problems in this country that I can see, based on my own experiences, is the number  of improprieties by people in many branches of government and private industry. They can group up and say "Damn right", to many of the things Trump promised, but when it comes down to it in their private affairs, there are going to be things they that don't want to be changed. Talking out of both sides of their neck. The more of those types who can wield some influence in D.C. are going to be the sticking points to any real change.

The Republican Congress, both Senate, and House, no longer will be able to give us the rigamarole of "we are
trying". I plan on holding my reps feet to the fire.

I would like to see more carbon based energy use. Reopen perfectly good plants.

I would like to see some changes in "affordable" health because I cannot afford it since my employer based insurance ended Jan. 1, 2015.

I would like to see undocumented people in this country brought to task under existing immigration laws. As an aside our neighbors next door are Hispanic. The young woman was in tears this morning because she is afraid Trump will send them back to Mexico. They don't understand. They are legal documented immigrants working towards citizenship. They have taken English classes. He isn't so good at speaking English (typical man), but she can. My wife told them they don't have to worry. And they shouldn't.

And I want the federal government to return all federally held lands returned to the states with maybe the exception of national parks.

I want to see more trees die, as humanely as possible, of course. With the managed care of both industry and state government.

Get rid of restrictive ROE''s. Period.

But what I mainly want to see is for Trump to start with ONE thing. (Pick any one on his list). And then move on to the next. Using a scattergun tactic will cause to much harm and confusion, IMO.


Offline sneakypete

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Re: Measuring the Future
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2016, 08:10:53 PM »


And I want the federal government to return all federally held lands returned to the states with maybe the exception of national parks.



@bigheadfred

No can do. The US military needs and uses huge tracts of public land to train on,and if you stop this Americans WILL die in combat that wouldn't have died if they had been able to train properly.
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Offline INVAR

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Re: Measuring the Future
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2016, 08:14:19 PM »
@bigheadfred

No can do. The US military needs and uses huge tracts of public land to train on,and if you stop this Americans WILL die in combat that wouldn't have died if they had been able to train properly.

I think a good chunk of the Federal 'refuges", Heritage sites and federal park designations intended to punish flyover country or secure big payola for Democrat investors linked to China should indeed be returned back to the States
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Online bigheadfred

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Re: Measuring the Future
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2016, 08:15:46 PM »
@bigheadfred

No can do. The US military needs and uses huge tracts of public land to train on,and if you stop this Americans WILL die in combat that wouldn't have died if they had been able to train properly.

How does that stop them if those lands are state controlled?

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Measuring the Future
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2016, 08:19:26 PM »
How does that stop them if those lands are state controlled?
@bigheadfred

They aren't state-controlled for the most part. They are owned by the federal government.  I have no doubt sometimes some state land is used,but with permission by the state. Maybe a fee is even paid. I have no idea.

I also know for a fact that in SOME cases private land is also used,and the land owner is paid for the use of his land.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Measuring the Future
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2016, 08:20:20 PM »
I think a good chunk of the Federal 'refuges", Heritage sites and federal park designations intended to punish flyover country or secure big payola for Democrat investors linked to China should indeed be returned back to the States

@INVAR

I know nothing about those.
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Online bigheadfred

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Re: Measuring the Future
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2016, 08:24:35 PM »
I think a good chunk of the Federal 'refuges", Heritage sites and federal park designations intended to punish flyover country or secure big payola for Democrat investors linked to China should indeed be returned back to the States

Exactly. I probably should have qualified my statement a bit. I had in mind well-established areas like Yellowstone and Yosemite (et al). 

Online bigheadfred

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Re: Measuring the Future
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2016, 08:30:23 PM »
@bigheadfred

They aren't state-controlled for the most part. They are owned by the federal government.  I have no doubt sometimes some state land is used,but with permission by the state. Maybe a fee is even paid. I have no idea.

I also know for a fact that in SOME cases private land is also used,and the land owner is paid for the use of his land.

I may be wrong, but I don't see the states objecting to continued use of areas already in use by the military for training exercises. IMO, the federal government has no business owning any land in this country other than D.C. They can have that. In fact, I insist. I think we could even change the name to The Federal Reservation. And anytime they go off the Rez, they get scalped.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Measuring the Future
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2016, 08:45:09 PM »
I may be wrong, but I don't see the states objecting to continued use of areas already in use by the military for training exercises. IMO, the federal government has no business owning any land in this country other than D.C. They can have that. In fact, I insist. I think we could even change the name to The Federal Reservation. And anytime they go off the Rez, they get scalped.

@bigheadfred

Give me a break! Do you really think Yellowstone would still exist today without the federal dollars pouring in to the state for rental and fees,and by extension,supporting the tourist trade?

Somebody like Ted Turner would own it,and when he dies his family would sell it to developers.

I'm not even sure any states would accept the land back if you offered it to them. They are all in rural states with low populations and a low tax base. The federal money those parks bring in is VERY welcome,and their budgets would be in trouble without it.

I personally know of a big chunk of oceanfront property that was a federal wildlife refuge for over 50 years before being privatized in the 70's or 80's. I have relatives that live near there,and remember it well. Go there now and the most scenery you will see are rental property mansions with 6 or more bedrooms on pilings so the people in them have a ocean view. Goober Gore owns a mansion there,or did back when he was the VP. Think he paid something like a half-mil for it back then.

Instead of wheel tracks through the sand,they now have paved roads and shopping centers. Someone told me a while back that the local government has now banned commercial fishermen from setting their nets off the beach and pulling them in to fish them over because the tourists didn't like it. Some of these people come from families that have been fishing those beaches since per-Revolutionary times. Seriously.

And they are one strong hurricane away from the state and federal government having to cough up  maybe even a hundred million dollars in disaster-relief to repair the mansions of wealthy northerners who go there to vacation and rent the properties for thousands  a week during the summer months.

I don't live there so I don't have any voice in what goes on,but it seems to me the nation was better off when it was a game preserve.
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Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Measuring the Future
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2016, 08:51:08 PM »
@bigheadfred

No can do. The US military needs and uses huge tracts of public land to train on,and if you stop this Americans WILL die in combat that wouldn't have died if they had been able to train properly.
@bigheadfred @sneakypete

Pete has a point, and Military reservations are Constitutionally Authorized. National Parks, Monuments, and Wilderness areas are not. I would concede National Parks, but this business of every president sequestering another million or more acres for a 'national monument' is insanity. Wilderness areas, the same thing, frankly.

Part of that problem is the wad of rules that come with those designations, not just for those who lived in them, but by 'buffer zones' created around them, land in private hands controlled by government edict.

While a peculiar form of fascism, it is one I know of. My relatives have 22 acres of 180 year old red oak timber, ripe for harvest, planted by an ancestor, that cannot be cut by government decree because it is in a 'buffer zone' to a 'critical area' of a Scenic River. Nine Federal and State permits to cut one tree. Each tree. Insanity. The land has been in the family since the 1640s, and is still productive.

Tear off a chunk here or there to preserve some ecosystem, but better yet, let the States decide what proportion is to be Park land or not. Shutting down huge tracts to access amounts to an unfunded mandate by demanding resources not be harvested or produced, but roads, firefighting, and necessary rescue services have to be maintained, sans tax base. More often than not, people on that land will take better care of it than any federal agency ever will or will know how to.

Considering the Federal Government owns half of the land west of the Mississippi River, that's too much, and the tax money from those resources being tapped, developed, manufacturing and the jobs that would create would be a boon, not only to individual communities ravaged by spotted owls and the like, but the country as a whole.

Animals are adaptable, and it's time to get past the snowflake version of Bambi and down to the reality of critters dining on your shrubbery and taking the front out of your car by just standing around.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
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Online bigheadfred

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Re: Measuring the Future
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2016, 08:58:01 PM »
@bigheadfred

Give me a break! Do you really think Yellowstone would still exist today without the federal dollars pouring in to the state for rental and fees,and by extension,supporting the tourist trade?

Somebody like Ted Turner would own it,and when he dies his family would sell it to developers.

I'm not even sure any states would accept the land back if you offered it to them. They are all in rural states with low populations and a low tax base. The federal money those parks bring in is VERY welcome,and their budgets would be in trouble without it.

Quote
I personally know of a big chunk of oceanfront property that was a federal wildlife refuge for over 50 years before being privatized in the 70's or 80's.
I have relatives that live near there,and remember it well. Go there now and the most scenery you will see are rental property mansions with 6 or more bedrooms on pilings so the people in them have a ocean view. Goober Gore owns a mansion there,or did back when he was the VP. Think he paid something like a half-mil for it back then.

Instead of wheel tracks through the sand,they now have paved roads and shopping centers. Someone told me a while back that the local government has now banned commercial fishermen from setting their nets off the beach and pulling them in to fish them over because the tourists didn't like it. Some of these people come from families that have been fishing those beaches since per-Revolutionary times. Seriously.

And they are one strong hurricane away from the state and federal government having to cough up  maybe even a hundred million dollars in disaster-relief to repair the mansions of wealthy northerners who go there to vacation and rent the properties for thousands  a week during the summer months.

I don't live there so I don't have any voice in what goes on,but it seems to me the nation was better off when it was a game preserve.

How do we know how the states would manage those lands if they can't even try?  And it sounds like that oceanfront property went to exactly the type of problem @INVAR was referring to. Favoritism. No input from the locals/state. Some damn fed got a nice chunk of change to "privatize" it.

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Measuring the Future
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2016, 09:08:47 PM »
I have relatives that live near there,and remember it well. Go there now and the most scenery you will see are rental property mansions with 6 or more bedrooms on pilings so the people in them have a ocean view. Goober Gore owns a mansion there,or did back when he was the VP. Think he paid something like a half-mil for it back then.

Instead of wheel tracks through the sand,they now have paved roads and shopping centers. Someone told me a while back that the local government has now banned commercial fishermen from setting their nets off the beach and pulling them in to fish them over because the tourists didn't like it. Some of these people come from families that have been fishing those beaches since per-Revolutionary times. Seriously.

And they are one strong hurricane away from the state and federal government having to cough up  maybe even a hundred million dollars in disaster-relief to repair the mansions of wealthy northerners who go there to vacation and rent the properties for thousands  a week during the summer months.

I don't live there so I don't have any voice in what goes on,but it seems to me the nation was better off when it was a game preserve.


How do we know how the states would manage those lands if they can't even try?  And it sounds like that oceanfront property went to exactly the type of problem @INVAR was referring to. Favoritism. No input from the locals/state. Some damn fed got a nice chunk of change to "privatize" it.
Actually, out this way, I'd like to see it opened up to homesteading again.
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Online bigheadfred

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Re: Measuring the Future
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2016, 09:12:36 PM »
@bigheadfred @sneakypete

Pete has a point, and Military reservations are Constitutionally Authorized. National Parks, Monuments, and Wilderness areas are not. I would concede National Parks, but this business of every president sequestering another million or more acres for a 'national monument' is insanity. Wilderness areas, the same thing, frankly.

Part of that problem is the wad of rules that come with those designations, not just for those who lived in them, but by 'buffer zones' created around them, land in private hands controlled by government edict.

While a peculiar form of fascism, it is one I know of. My relatives have 22 acres of 180 year old red oak timber, ripe for harvest, planted by an ancestor, that cannot be cut by government decree because it is in a 'buffer zone' to a 'critical area' of a Scenic River. Nine Federal and State permits to cut one tree. Each tree. Insanity. The land has been in the family since the 1640s, and is still productive.

Tear off a chunk here or there to preserve some ecosystem, but better yet, let the States decide what proportion is to be Park land or not. Shutting down huge tracts to access amounts to an unfunded mandate by demanding resources not be harvested or produced, but roads, firefighting, and necessary rescue services have to be maintained, sans tax base. More often than not, people on that land will take better care of it than any federal agency ever will or will know how to.

Considering the Federal Government owns half of the land west of the Mississippi River, that's too much, and the tax money from those resources being tapped, developed, manufacturing and the jobs that would create would be a boon, not only to individual communities ravaged by spotted owls and the like, but the country as a whole.

Animals are adaptable, and it's time to get past the snowflake version of Bambi and down to the reality of critters dining on your shrubbery and taking the front out of your car by just standing around.
@sneakypete


This is a PDF of Department of defense land.  https://nationalmap.gov/small_scale/printable/images/pdf/fedlands/DOD_1.pdf In blue. If it is Department of Defense we are talking about. Again, why do either of you think the states would object to military use of land for training exercises? I have no objection to federally held military reserves. When your horse craps and one of those apples rolls onto fed ground on their side of YOUR fence and some fed envirowhacko tells you you need to clean that up---enough is enough.

There are too many departments "managing" these lands (cumulatively), too.

Offline INVAR

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Re: Measuring the Future
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2016, 09:16:02 PM »
@INVAR

I know nothing about those.


Here is a couple of news blurbs for starters:

Quote
Obama has seized more land for the federal government than any other president in American history. To date, he has unilaterally taken over 260 million acres of land and water, giving control and ownership over to the feds.

...Obama wielded this power once again, designating over 1.8 million acres of California lands as federally-protected lands. In doing so, the president artificially created three “national monuments:” Sand to Snow, Mojave Trails, and Castle Mountains. “The new monuments will connect three existing sites — Death Valley and Joshua Tree national parks and the Mojave National Preserve — to create the second-largest desert preserve in the world,”

http://www.dailywire.com/news/3357/amount-land-obama-has-seized-feds-will-astound-you-michael-qazvini#


Quote
Nevertheless, the Obama administration’s aggressive use of executive orders to unconstitutionally bypass Congress and enact its own “environmental” regulations indicates that we can expect an intensification of the adversarial attitude by federal agencies toward ranchers, farmers, and rural property owners. The EPA’s new “Waters of the United States” (WOTUS) interpretation, all by itself, guarantees collisions between federal authorities and property owners. According to Obama’s EPA, even dry land miles from any “navigable waters” is still subject to EPA’s arbitrary and capricious jurisdiction because the rainwater that sinks into the ground is somehow connected to navigable waters. This virtually guarantees an escalation of tensions and a certainty of more confrontations that could turn violent.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/item/22499-behind-the-oregon-standoff



Quote
Last Friday, President Obama ordered that well over half a million — 582,578 — square miles off the coast of Hawaii be seized as property for the federal government. Now a “national marine monument,” large swaths of the Hawaiian coast are off limits to commercial fishing….When the president seizes huge tracts of land or water in the name of “public good,” the American people get no say and merely limited access to that land.

http://truthfeed.com/obama-has-now-seized-more-land-by-executive-order-than-any-u-s-president-in-history/21303/
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Measuring the Future
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2016, 09:27:28 PM »
Give me a break! Do you really think Yellowstone would still exist today without the federal dollars pouring in to the state for rental and fees,and by extension,supporting the tourist trade?



@sneakypete

You ain't got a leg to stand on. The fed gov is the largest land owner in every state in the west. We don't need em all up in our business. Gating everything off like we ain't got a right.

« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 09:29:29 PM by roamer_1 »

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Measuring the Future
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2016, 09:48:12 PM »
@sneakypete


This is a PDF of Department of defense land.  https://nationalmap.gov/small_scale/printable/images/pdf/fedlands/DOD_1.pdf In blue. If it is Department of Defense we are talking about. Again, why do either of you think the states would object to military use of land for training exercises? I have no objection to federally held military reserves. When your horse craps and one of those apples rolls onto fed ground on their side of YOUR fence and some fed envirowhacko tells you you need to clean that up---enough is enough.

There are too many departments "managing" these lands (cumulatively), too.
It isn't the DOD lands. Those are, again, Constitutionally authorized. It is the National Grasslands, National Forests, BLM land, 'national monuments', Wilderness areas, and a host of other designations which remove land from private concerns and reduce it to more park area overseen by people who will fine you $15K for taking a leak on the ground in the middle of nowhere. Management includes the BLM (Bureau of Land Management), the USFWS, National Park Service, and a host of others.

BTW, on that map, red are Indian Reservations, light green are National Forest/Grasslands, dark green National Parks, and DOD lands are in blue. (areas smaller  than 23,000 acres are omitted because of map scale. I'm not sure about the other colors and designations, those are just the ones I can identify offhand. https://nationalmap.gov/small_scale/printable/images/pdf/fedlands/DOD_1.pdf
« Last Edit: November 09, 2016, 09:57:07 PM by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
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And I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses. Nehemiah 4:14 (KJV)

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Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Measuring the Future
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2016, 07:36:16 AM »
   Thanks for Posting this, @Smokin Joe


Okay, that was getting off topic, although still a nice idea for the wish list. Getting back on, and using this graphic as inspiration, in Iowa, Mr Trump said :

The EPA should ensure that biofuel … blend levels match the statutory level set by Congress under the [renewable fuel standard],” Trump said.
http://www.governorsbiofuelscoalition.org/?p=15941
From the article, dated January 19, 2016:
Quote
Donald Trump said Tuesday that federal regulators should increase the amount of ethanol blended into the nation’s gasoline supply.


Now, this is one promise I really hope he does not keep. The Renewable Fuels blend mandate is not a percentage of fuel, but an amount of ethanol, in gallons, to be blended into the nation's fuels . When this becomes a problem is when fuel consumption (gasoline) drops, the amount of ethanol stays the same, requiring more ethanol in more of the fuel supply. Most automobile engines are designed in such a way that beyond 10% ethanol (known as the 'blend wall') those engines will have problems. Flex Fuel and E-85 engines are an exception, but they are also an exception among the vehicles on the road.
In addition to that, ethanol in fuel systems is damaging to small engines, including generators, pumps, lawnmowers, snowblowers, chainsaws, outboard motors, and older (classic) vehicles not built to use ethanol in fuels.

 I would much rather see ethanol on the market as an option rather than a requirement, and let the market decide.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 07:38:14 AM by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression
And I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses. Nehemiah 4:14 (KJV)

About the only "Big" Liberals don't revile is "Big Government"


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