Author Topic: Why I cannot support Hillary Clinton  (Read 2452 times)

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Offline pjohns

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Why I cannot support Hillary Clinton
« on: November 07, 2016, 12:41:35 PM »
As many have previously pointed out, we have a long tradition in this country of the loser's acquiescing to the winner; it is what separates us from just another banana republic.

But if Hillary Clinton does win on Election Day, I am not certain that I can support her.

Well, why not (given the predicate)?

The answer, in my opinion, is that she is represents corruption on a scale that we have never before seen in American politics

The Mafia is a slightly less evil organization than the Clinton Crime Machine, in my view. 

Of course, if she becomes president, she will also be my president; there is simply no getting around that (short of moving to another country; which I do not plan to do). 

A mere difference in policy preferences can rather easily be ignored.

But a fundamental difference--the difference between America as "a shining city on a hill," as Ronald Reagan phrased it, and America as a kingdom of corruption--is simply not easy to ignore...

Offline collins

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Re: Why I cannot support Hillary Clinton
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2016, 11:03:35 PM »
Well, I didn't vote for her and I want her to lose. And this board is not the same board I joined years ago, bunch of malcontents banned FReepers that had rather have Hillary, nothing to say to them except I hope they lose.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Why I cannot support Hillary Clinton
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2016, 11:36:47 PM »
Well, I didn't vote for her and I want her to lose. And this board is not the same board I joined years ago, bunch of malcontents banned FReepers that had rather have Hillary, nothing to say to them except I hope they lose.

@collins

"Malcontents" is too generous a description of the NeverTrumps here.   **nononono*
"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Why I cannot support Hillary Clinton
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2016, 11:38:55 PM »
As many have previously pointed out, we have a long tradition in this country of the loser's acquiescing to the winner; it is what separates us from just another banana republic.

But if Hillary Clinton does win on Election Day, I am not certain that I can support her.

Well, why not (given the predicate)?

The answer, in my opinion, is that she is represents corruption on a scale that we have never before seen in American politics

The Mafia is a slightly less evil organization than the Clinton Crime Machine, in my view. 

Of course, if she becomes president, she will also be my president; there is simply no getting around that (short of moving to another country; which I do not plan to do). 

A mere difference in policy preferences can rather easily be ignored.

But a fundamental difference--the difference between America as "a shining city on a hill," as Ronald Reagan phrased it, and America as a kingdom of corruption--is simply not easy to ignore...

Good posting @pjohns   I promise you, you are not alone in this opinion.   :patriot:
"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Why I cannot support Hillary Clinton
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2016, 11:42:58 PM »





 :patriot:
"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Offline Millee

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Re: Why I cannot support Hillary Clinton
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2016, 10:20:26 AM »
Well, I didn't vote for her and I want her to lose. And this board is not the same board I joined years ago, bunch of malcontents banned FReepers that had rather have Hillary, nothing to say to them except I hope they lose.

I don't even like to scroll down to see what everyone is commenting on.  The nastiness displayed is no better than what you'd see on DU.   **nononono*

Offline Longiron

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Re: Why I cannot support Hillary Clinton
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2016, 10:48:43 AM »
Good posting @pjohns   I promise you, you are not alone in this opinion.   :patriot:

DITTO

Offline dfwgator

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Re: Why I cannot support Hillary Clinton
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2016, 10:58:26 AM »
In the end my vote for Trump came down to one thing and one thing only.

I don't want a President that the Press will coverup for.   And that's Hillary.


Offline skeeter

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Re: Why I cannot support Hillary Clinton
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2016, 10:59:24 AM »
Well, I didn't vote for her and I want her to lose. And this board is not the same board I joined years ago, bunch of malcontents banned FReepers that had rather have Hillary, nothing to say to them except I hope they lose.

I was one of those refugees. Not all of us fit your description.

And I totally agree that there have been far, far too few here criticizing Hillary this season.

Offline LateForLunch

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Re: Why I cannot support Hillary Clinton
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2016, 01:10:49 PM »
I was one of those refugees. Not all of us fit your description.

And I totally agree that there have been far, far too few here criticizing Hillary this season.

That is extremely well-put.

I have decided that in the strident Never Trumpsters we have a faction of the self-described conservatives who believe in things based largely on their feelings, but they often cannot defend their positions with strong or clear rational, substantive arguments, so they tend to just sort of make stuff up as they go along.

I can gladly accept having allies in politics who agree with me for reasons that differ from my own, even if they are based in feelings/intuitions instead of clear-headed logic, reason or other strongly rational criteria. 
But it is always a little disorienting to me to confront the thing itself face-to-face. I have long believed that the greater numbers of conservatives were thinking-centered people who need strong rational reasons to hold strong opinions.

That the Never Trumpsters are largely driven mostly by emotion/intuition is hard for me to accept, but I think I finally have. I don't have to like it, but I do accept it because again, it is the morally correct position to hold, regardless of my personal feelings of unease or anxiety.   
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Offline dfwgator

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Re: Why I cannot support Hillary Clinton
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2016, 01:12:59 PM »
Part of what drives "Never Trumpsterism" is thinking that we're doomed regardless of whomever wins, and if so, better to have it happen on the Democrats' watch.

Offline LateForLunch

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Re: Why I cannot support Hillary Clinton
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2016, 01:35:24 PM »
Part of what drives "Never Trumpsterism" is thinking that we're doomed regardless of whomever wins, and if so, better to have it happen on the Democrats' watch.

Ah yes. I heard that argument a whole lot in the 2008 election when people complained that McCain was a RINO and wouldn't vote for him for that reason. I dislike and mistrust McCain but I voted for him because I disliked and mistrusted the Eightball Obama infinitely more. My fellow conservatives and I called the idea that putting a 'Crat in the White House so that people would get sick of 'Crats and vote against them in the next election the Finger-Down-The-Throat-Option (equivalent to inducing vomiting).

We can all see how well that worked out, can't we?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 01:36:47 PM by LateForLunch »
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Offline wolfcreek

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Re: Why I cannot support Hillary Clinton
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2016, 03:30:09 PM »
I signed back on just to say that, no matter tonight's results, I have no intention of associating with the anti-Trumps or whatever they want to be called in the future.

Catch you guys elsewhere.

Offline skeeter

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Re: Why I cannot support Hillary Clinton
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2016, 03:43:52 PM »
That is extremely well-put.

I have decided that in the strident Never Trumpsters we have a faction of the self-described conservatives who believe in things based largely on their feelings, but they often cannot defend their positions with strong or clear rational, substantive arguments, so they tend to just sort of make stuff up as they go along.

I can gladly accept having allies in politics who agree with me for reasons that differ from my own, even if they are based in feelings/intuitions instead of clear-headed logic, reason or other strongly rational criteria. 
But it is always a little disorienting to me to confront the thing itself face-to-face. I have long believed that the greater numbers of conservatives were thinking-centered people who need strong rational reasons to hold strong opinions.

That the Never Trumpsters are largely driven mostly by emotion/intuition is hard for me to accept, but I think I finally have. I don't have to like it, but I do accept it because again, it is the morally correct position to hold, regardless of my personal feelings of unease or anxiety.

Emotional is the best single word to describe this entire election process, on all sides. And reason has had to take a back seat, from start to finish.

It has been an eye opener. It's gonna take me awhile to figure out what any of it means for the future.

Offline LateForLunch

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Re: Why I cannot support Hillary Clinton
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2016, 03:48:11 PM »
I signed back on just to say that, no matter tonight's results, I have no intention of associating with the anti-Trumps or whatever they want to be called in the future.

Catch you guys elsewhere.

I fully share your frustration but I must encourage you to reconsider. There is a thing known as "transitory affect" in psychology which refers to things like psychosis induced by trauma or drug abuse. In this case Trump Derangement Syndrome has just such a transitory affect. That means as soon as the causative agent is removed (in this case, an election with Donald Trump as the candidate) the subject's behavior and base mood state return to normal.

I fully anticipate an almost full return to normal cognition and behavior in the case of people under the influence of TDS in a few days. Just a word of caution, as in all other cases of transitory affect, the principle experiences their own perceptions / behavior as entirely normal, even exemplary or superior. So in the case of people under the influence of TDS it is unlikely that confronting them on their episode will have any positive effect on sustaining or encouraging their recovery.


Rather refusing reconcile and allowing hurt feelings to result in permanent undying enmity, fully realizes the best hopes of the 'Crats that Trump's candidacy will create a permanent schism in the conservative movement.
"Father forgive them.
For they know what they are doing but do it anyway." - Late for Lynch
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 03:52:34 PM by LateForLunch »
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Offline the_doc

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Re: Why I cannot support Hillary Clinton
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2016, 04:43:44 PM »
Well, I didn't vote for her and I want her to lose. And this board is not the same board I joined years ago, bunch of malcontents banned FReepers that had rather have Hillary, nothing to say to them except I hope they lose.

I, too, hope Hillary loses.  Many if not most of us NeverTrump folks feel that way, I suspect;  but we will not go on record before God as casting a vote FOR Trump--except, of course, in the obvious sense that a refusal to vote for Hillary is a vote for Trump.

(Methinks you have never noticed how bad a guy Trump is.  A lesser evil is still evil--in Trump's case, remarkably evil.  I am playing it safe:  God is the only One Who can rescue America.  And He certainly does not need my help [or even yours, TBR friend].) 

Offline wolfcreek

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Re: Why I cannot support Hillary Clinton
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2016, 09:13:37 AM »
I fully share your frustration but I must encourage you to reconsider. There is a thing known as "transitory affect" in psychology which refers to things like psychosis induced by trauma or drug abuse. In this case Trump Derangement Syndrome has just such a transitory affect. That means as soon as the causative agent is removed (in this case, an election with Donald Trump as the candidate) the subject's behavior and base mood state return to normal.

I fully anticipate an almost full return to normal cognition and behavior in the case of people under the influence of TDS in a few days. Just a word of caution, as in all other cases of transitory affect, the principle experiences their own perceptions / behavior as entirely normal, even exemplary or superior. So in the case of people under the influence of TDS it is unlikely that confronting them on their episode will have any positive effect on sustaining or encouraging their recovery.


Rather refusing reconcile and allowing hurt feelings to result in permanent undying enmity, fully realizes the best hopes of the 'Crats that Trump's candidacy will create a permanent schism in the conservative movement.
"Father forgive them.
For they know what they are doing but do it anyway." - Late for Lynch

IMO, you're right. However, it's not so much about hurt feeling as it is "seeing the real you". I've lost respect for some of these posters and I would bet most won't change their spots regardless.

I wasn't here much before the election but, I may visit occasionally.

God Bless this country and allow President Trump to make it great again.

Offline LateForLunch

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Re: Why I cannot support Hillary Clinton
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2016, 09:48:24 AM »
IMO, you're right. However, it's not so much about hurt feeling as it is "seeing the real you". I've lost respect for some of these posters and I would bet most won't change their spots regardless.

I wasn't here much before the election but, I may visit occasionally.

God Bless this country and allow President Trump to make it great again.

I understand. Nice avatar BTW. Handsome animal!!
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Offline collins

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Re: Why I cannot support Hillary Clinton
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2016, 04:57:00 PM »
Never cared much for FR or DU, too many of those people are unhinged and like to dogpile dissenting posters but I never saw that behavior at TBR until this #neverTrump nonsense took off. I did see what they did to the Cruz supporters over there but he had already lost the primary anyways. Cruz lost me forever when he took the left's side over the protesters.

But all it was FR was Trump, Trump, Trump, and that was not the only election around, so I came here. Ran into a couple of them defending Nate Silver, then saw a lot of them with their Hillary-in-a-landslide predictions, came to the only Trump-friendly forum left here, and saw a couple of them giving Trump backhand compliments. They have proved themselves irrelevant.


I, too, hope Hillary loses.  Many if not most of us NeverTrump folks feel that way, I suspect;  but we will not go on record before God as casting a vote FOR Trump--except, of course, in the obvious sense that a refusal to vote for Hillary is a vote for Trump.

(Methinks you have never noticed how bad a guy Trump is.  A lesser evil is still evil--in Trump's case, remarkably evil.  I am playing it safe:  God is the only One Who can rescue America.  And He certainly does not need my help [or even yours, TBR friend].) 

But he would have never won if everybody was afraid to look bad in the eyes of God. No offense, but that's holier-than-thou and self-righteous IMO.

But then, I thought Obama and Hillary were beyond evil and about anybody would be better than those two.

Offline LateForLunch

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Re: Why I cannot support Hillary Clinton
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2016, 09:53:06 PM »
Never cared much for FR or DU, too many of those people are unhinged and like to dogpile dissenting posters but I never saw that behavior at TBR until this #neverTrump nonsense took off. I did see what they did to the Cruz supporters over there but he had already lost the primary anyways. Cruz lost me forever when he took the left's side over the protesters.

But all it was FR was Trump, Trump, Trump, and that was not the only election around, so I came here. Ran into a couple of them defending Nate Silver, then saw a lot of them with their Hillary-in-a-landslide predictions, came to the only Trump-friendly forum left here, and saw a couple of them giving Trump backhand compliments. They have proved themselves irrelevant.


But he would have never won if everybody was afraid to look bad in the eyes of God. No offense, but that's holier-than-thou and self-righteous IMO.

But then, I thought Obama and Hillary were beyond evil and about anybody would be better than those two.
A very well spoken post. It was also very frustrating for me to confront this sort of resolute, strident resistance to doing what was for me, a fairly easy decision. It came down to either action or inaction as an act of faith. I chose action (trusting to God to intercede if I chose wrong) and they chose inaction (hoping that God would do the same if they chose wrong and Hill-O-Lies was elected partially due to their faction's inaction).

Sam (Ronin): You're either part of the problem or you're part of the solution...or else you're just part of the scenery.

A great number of self described conservative voters elected to be part of the scenery this election cycle. I agree that it is a sin (lesser sin to err on the side of action rather than inaction, in my own view), but not an unforgivable sin. It just bodes caution in trusting people in similar circumstances and illustrates that there are also strategic weaknesses in aligning people with a strong moral sense, as many conservatives have, in addition to strengths.
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