Never Trumpers and Reluctant Trump Supporters, Stop Questioning Each Other’s Motives...By Ben Shapiro

[mystery-ak]

 Never Trumpers and Reluctant Trump Supporters, Stop Questioning Each Other’s Motives
The future of conservatism depends on their reconciliation beginning November 9.
By Ben Shapiro — October 27, 2016

With Donald Trump flailing in the polls just under two weeks from the presidential election, an open conflict has broken out between many of those Republicans voting for Trump and those who see him as a moral and political bridge too far for the Republican party.

For most, that conflict is not based on disagreements about principle. Most Never Trumpers despise Hillary Clinton and will not vote for her; most Never Trumpers even feel significant sympathy for the “vote for Trump to stop Hillary” argument. They believe that Trump fails to meet the most basic standard of morality and conservatism and that supporting him damages Republicans politically now and in the future. So they will vote for neither candidate.

By contrast, most Trump voters despise Hillary Clinton and will vote against her. Most Trump voters are voting for Trump as the lesser of two evils, not because they support his agenda on trade or trust him as a thoughtful foreign-policy sage. Most Trump voters aren’t Laura Ingraham or Bill Mitchell or Sean Hannity. That’s been true since May. Most Trump voters will vote for Trump because they believe that the overriding priority is to stop Hillary from entering the White House, and to that end, they are willing to overlook Trump’s myriad flaws.

So, why are the two sides of this debate at each other’s throat? Because they’ve projected bad motives onto the other side.

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http://www.nationalreview.com/node/441479/print

[Oceander]

Piss off.  Reluctant Trump supporters are, if anything, more objectionable than Trump true believers because they know what they're doing is wrong and they're doing it anyways. 

[jpsb]

By contrast, most Trump voters despise Hillary Clinton and will vote against her. Most Trump voters are voting for Trump as the lesser of two evils, not because they support his agenda on trade or trust him as a thoughtful foreign-policy sage.

Feeling the heat Ben? I, as a Trump voter am voting for Trump on the issues. Stopping Hillary is a big bonus I'll admit that.

Therefore, on the first day of my term of office, my administration will immediately pursue the following six measures to clean up the corruption and special interest collusion in Washington, DC:

    FIRST, propose a Constitutional Amendment to impose term limits on all members of Congress;
    SECOND, a hiring freeze on all federal employees to reduce federal workforce through attrition (exempting military, public safety, and public health);
    THIRD, a requirement that for every new federal regulation, two existing regulations must be eliminated;
    FOURTH, a 5 year-ban on White House and Congressional officials becoming lobbyists after they leave government service;
    FIFTH, a lifetime ban on White House officials lobbying on behalf of a foreign government;
    SIXTH, a complete ban on foreign lobbyists raising money for American elections.

On the same day, I will begin taking the following 7 actions to protect American workers:

    FIRST, I will announce my intention to renegotiate NAFTA or withdraw from the deal under Article 2205
    SECOND, I will announce our withdrawal from the Trans-Pacific Partnership
    THIRD, I will direct my Secretary of the Treasury to label China a currency manipulator
    FOURTH, I will direct the Secretary of Commerce and U.S. Trade Representative to identify all foreign trading abuses that unfairly impact American workers and direct them to use every tool under American and international law to end those abuses immediately
    FIFTH, I will lift the restrictions on the production of $50 trillion dollars’ worth of job-producing American energy reserves, including shale, oil, natural gas and clean coal.
    SIXTH, lift the Obama-Clinton roadblocks and allow vital energy infrastructure projects, like the Keystone Pipeline, to move forward
    SEVENTH, cancel billions in payments to U.N. climate change programs and use the money to fix America’s water and environmental infrastructure

Additionally, on the first day, I will take the following five actions to restore security and the constitutional rule of law:

    FIRST, cancel every unconstitutional executive action, memorandum and order issued by President Obama
    SECOND, begin the process of selecting a replacement for Justice Scalia from one of the 20 judges on my list, who will uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States
    THIRD, cancel all federal funding to Sanctuary Cities
    FOURTH, begin removing the more than 2 million criminal illegal immigrants from the country and cancel visas to foreign countries that won’t take them back
    FIFTH, suspend immigration from terror-prone regions where vetting cannot safely occur. All vetting of people coming into our country will be considered extreme vetting.

Next, I will work with Congress to introduce the following broader legislative measures and fight for their passage within the first 100 days of my Administration:

    Middle Class Tax Relief And Simplification Act. An economic plan designed to grow the economy 4% per year and create at least 25 million new jobs through massive tax reduction and simplification, in combination with trade reform, regulatory relief, and lifting the restrictions on American energy. The largest tax reductions are for the middle class. A middle-class family with 2 children will get a 35% tax cut. The current number of brackets will be reduced from 7 to 3, and tax forms will likewise be greatly simplified. The business rate will be lowered from 35 to 15 percent, and the trillions of dollars of American corporate money overseas can now be brought back at a 10 percent rate.
    End The Offshoring Act Establishes tariffs to discourage companies from laying off their workers in order to relocate in other countries and ship their products back to the U.S. tax-free.
    American Energy & Infrastructure Act. Leverages public-private partnerships, and private investments through tax incentives, to spur $1 trillion in infrastructure investment over 10 years. It is revenue neutral.
    School Choice And Education Opportunity Act. Redirects education dollars to gives parents the right to send their kid to the public, private, charter, magnet, religious or home school of their choice. Ends common core, brings education supervision to local communities. It expands vocational and technical education, and make 2 and 4-year college more affordable.
    Repeal and Replace Obamacare Act. Fully repeals Obamacare and replaces it with Health Savings Accounts, the ability to purchase health insurance across state lines, and lets states manage Medicaid funds. Reforms will also include cutting the red tape at the FDA: there are over 4,000 drugs awaiting approval, and we especially want to speed the approval of life-saving medications.
    Affordable Childcare and Eldercare Act. Allows Americans to deduct childcare and elder care from their taxes, incentivizes employers to provide on-side childcare services, and creates tax-free Dependent Care Savings Accounts for both young and elderly dependents, with matching contributions for low-income families.
    End Illegal Immigration Act Fully-funds the construction of a wall on our southern border with the full understanding that the country Mexico will be reimbursing the United States for the full cost of such wall; establishes a 2-year mandatory minimum federal prison sentence for illegally re-entering the U.S. after a previous deportation, and a 5-year mandatory minimum for illegally re-entering for those with felony convictions, multiple misdemeanor convictions or two or more prior deportations; also reforms visa rules to enhance penalties for overstaying and to ensure open jobs are offered to American workers first.
    Restoring Community Safety Act. Reduces surging crime, drugs and violence by creating a Task Force On Violent Crime and increasing funding for programs that train and assist local police; increases resources for federal law enforcement agencies and federal prosecutors to dismantle criminal gangs and put violent offenders behind bars.
    Restoring National Security Act. Rebuilds our military by eliminating the defense sequester and expanding military investment; provides Veterans with the ability to receive public VA treatment or attend the private doctor of their choice; protects our vital infrastructure from cyber-attack; establishes new screening procedures for immigration to ensure those who are admitted to our country support our people and our values
    Clean up Corruption in Washington Act. Enacts new ethics reforms to Drain the Swamp and reduce the corrupting influence of special interests on our politics.

   

[Jazzhead]

Piss off.  Reluctant Trump supporters are, if anything, more objectionable than Trump true believers because they know what they're doing is wrong and they're doing it anyways.

I disagree.   I have every hope of reconciling with those conservatives who see this as a lesser of two evils election and have decided that Clinton is the greater evil. 

Shapiro's right -  everyone's got to make a conscience-based choice between Too Corrupt and Too Crazy.  How the hell do you decide when your choices are that bad?   So I won't denigrate the motives of those who, unlike myself, have chosen to cast their lot with Crazy.   

[ABX]

I have a lot more understanding of the 'reluctant' types who simply try to make the best decision with the choices they have.

The 'true believers' are the ones who are worrisome. It isn't just that they completely turn a blind eye to all of Trump's vile and corrupt history and try to deny it happened (raising him to almost demigod status in their eyes), it is the True Believers^TM who are the ones who are so vested in their white knight from the government winning, that they will literally threaten and try to destroy anyone who they see as having opposed them or even simply not followed their choice strong enough.  Those are the ones that are degrading conservatism into not only a personality cult, but just another class dependent on someone from the government who is here to help. They want their own big government authoritarian to fix things for them. They are the ones who put their faith in the government to do all and fix all. In many ways, they are just like Hope and Change, just with different issues.

[jpsb]

I disagree.   I have every hope of reconciling with those conservatives who see this as a lesser of two evils election and have decided that Clinton is the greater evil. 

Shapiro's right -  everyone's got to make a conscience-based choice between Too Corrupt and Too Crazy.  How the hell do you decide when your choices are that bad?   So I won't denigrate the motives of those who, unlike myself, have chosen to cast their lot with Crazy.

This is a defining election, there will be no reconciling if Hillary is elected. The time has come to pick which side you are on. Globalists vrs Nationalist, Hillary vrs Trump. That's the choice. "Whoever is not with me is against me"

[Cripplecreek]

I've always noted the difference between reluctant Trumpers and the True believers.

[ABX]

This is a defining election, there will be no reconciling if Hillary is elected. The time as come to pick which side you are on. Globalists vrs Nationalist, Hillary vrs Trump. That's the choice. "Whoever is not with me is against me"

I am a Constitutional Individualist, not a globalist nor a nationalist (as both promote centralized power over the individual). So, I am NOT with you. Make sure you add me to your list in bold letters.

[jpsb]

I am a Constitutional Individualist, not a globalist nor a nationalist (as both promote centralized power over the individual). So, I am NOT with you. Make sure you add me to your list in bold letters.

Good luck with that Constitutional thing once madame President starts packing the courts with activist Marxist judges. Elect Hillary and the constitution is dead.

[GrouchoTex]

It is unfortunate that we have entered such a weird place.
Not agreeing with your party's choice of nominee is quite common, and always has been.
Voting for the lesser of two evils is a regular occurrence.
What fascinates me is the amount of energy wasted threatening people who have reservations.
That seems unprecedented, to me.
The comments of "traitor", "hell to pay", we know who you are", "hunt you down like dogs" etc., are troublesome, at best, frightening at worst.
We've been told that Democrats will round us all up if we do not vote for Trump, but it is the Trump supporters (a more vocal minority, I would hope) that are using this rhetoric.
We have been told that they will make a conscious effort to primary all elected officials who don't support him, within their own party.

FYI, 100% of democrats should be taken on during the election(s).
Republicans are (or conservatives, anyway) supposed to voice opinions, as in free speech, even if it against their own party, to try and steer the ship in the direction we would like it to go.

Let me ask, are the more vocal Clinton supporters calling out to "seek out and round up" the Sanders supporters who will not vote for her?

[r9etb]

Piss off.  Reluctant Trump supporters are, if anything, more objectionable than Trump true believers because they know what they're doing is wrong and they're doing it anyways.

Sorry, O, but I'm tossing the BS flag on that one. 

I know a lot of reluctant Trumpers, and in the main they're good and honest people who are just trying to do the best they can between two intolerable choices.  They didn't want Trump as the nominee, but that's irrelevant at this point.

Come 9 November, we're going to have to work with them. 

[chae]

If you don't want either of the two, vote for a third party! 
Maybe they won't win nationwide, but perhaps if they win your state that may throw the election to the House of Representatives.

[sinkspur]

I have a lot more understanding of the 'reluctant' types who simply try to make the best decision with the choices they have.

The 'true believers' are the ones who are worrisome. It isn't just that they completely turn a blind eye to all of Trump's vile and corrupt history and try to deny it happened (raising him to almost demigod status in their eyes), it is the True Believers^TM who are the ones who are so vested in their white knight from the government winning, that they will literally threaten and try to destroy anyone who they see as having opposed them or even simply not followed their choice strong enough.  Those are the ones that are degrading conservatism into not only a personality cult, but just another class dependent on someone from the government who is here to help. They want their own big government authoritarian to fix things for them. They are the ones who put their faith in the government to do all and fix all. In many ways, they are just like Hope and Change, just with different issues.

Can't really add to this.  The True Believers have always been the problem, threatening and cajoling and wanting to drag everyone else into the ditch with them.

They'll likely stay in the ditch after November 8 and that is just as well.

[ABX]

Good luck with that Constitutional thing once madame President starts packing the courts with activist Marxist judges. Elect Hillary and the constitution is dead.

It is cute how you pretend trump would do any better.

[chae]

I've noticed that a good majority of people who were reluctant Trumpers have gone all in on him.  I've had a few accuse me of being directly responsible for the destruction of America.

[driftdiver]

Piss off.  Reluctant Trump supporters are, if anything, more objectionable than Trump true believers because they know what they're doing is wrong and they're doing it anyways.

@Oceander

BS.  You are the ones that failed to provide any good viable options.

You're whining and crying, stamping your feet like a toddler throwing a temper tantrum.  With the same effect.

[skeeter]

I've always noted the difference between reluctant Trumpers and the True believers.

I'll admit I'm flummoxed by those who profess deeper antipathy to those who are reluctant Trump voters than the fanatics who kicked this whole thing off with their frenzied support of Trump.

Between them and the Trump true believers like Hannity I don't see any hope for reconciliation anytime soon.

[chae]

@skeeter

Not saying I feel like this but, I feel much more disdain for Colin Kapernick because he was born in America and had all the benefits and then became an America-hating muslim than I do for Achmed who has never been outside of Afghanistan and is an America-hating muslim because that's all he knows.

[skeeter]

Oceander made a valid point.  He said that Trumpsters are blinded by Trump to the point that their judgment has been dulled.  The self professed reluctant Trumpsters are fully aware of what they are doing.  That is a valid point.  For me, the first group is worse in that they lack even the discernment to see the problem.  But I will not bash Oceander for that valid point.  Trump looks just that hideous to me, too.  Nothing about Hillary makes Trump okay.

With all due respect, its a ridiculous point. Even more, blaming people who aren't responsible for our predicament is flat nuts.

[ABX]

  Better?

Okay let me try again. 

If you see a bunch of cultists at the airport in long orange robes and flip-flops, selling flowers and handing out fliers asking you to join them on their bus so you can become part of the "children of orange-light.." you think they are NUTS, but you feel somewhat sorry for their brainwashed selves.    However, if you encounter a longtime friend in a business suit at the same airport, selling flowers and trying to win converts for the Orange One even though he knows it is a cult, you question his integrity even more.  He KNOWS it is a cult, but he's selling the scam anyway.

Kind of like when you see friends jump on some MLM bandwagon.

[roamer_1]

This is a defining election, there will be no reconciling if Hillary is elected.

The hell it is.

The time has come to pick which side you are on. Globalists vrs Nationalist, Hillary vrs Trump. That's the choice. "Whoever is not with me is against me"

That is a choice between a global communist or a national socialist - Both Liberals. That is not a choice. That is certainly *not* Conservative, nor American.

I am four square against all y'all. A pox on all your houses.

[r9etb]

I've noticed that a good majority of people who were reluctant Trumpers have gone all in on him.  I've had a few accuse me of being directly responsible for the destruction of America.

"All in," in their case, is probably fear-based, so far as I've observed; to them, the idea of President Hillary is the worst possible outcome.

They're still reluctant about Trump.

[roamer_1]

 

Maybe I recall better than most (not likely), or maybe Ive been down this road more than most...

But this happens every year. There are always Conservatives - Good Conservatives - Who don't have the sand to stand fast upon their principles. That's OK by me. I get it. Fear is a powerful motivation.

Better to look at it differently - Not castigating those who fall, but rather, encouraging those who are adamantine. It is times like these that one can identify the rock-ribbed, and those are people to ride the river with.

[Jazzhead]

This is a defining election, there will be no reconciling if Hillary is elected. The time has come to pick which side you are on. Globalists vrs Nationalist, Hillary vrs Trump. That's the choice. "Whoever is not with me is against me"

So my hand in reconciliation will be slapped down?   So be it.  I'm against you, then -  and it is damned stupid, with all the enemies at your door, to slap down those who on many matters share your values.   But Trump's True Believers are nihilists, not patriots.   

[aligncare]

I have absolutely no angst over Trump being president. In my opinion he will work overtime to live up to the promises he made to his voters. I expect he will be a very good president for working Americans.

If the unthinkable happens and Hillary Clinton is elected, all bets are off.