Author Topic: Eric Metaxas Explains Why Christians Should Still Vote for Trump Despite his ‘Odious’ Behavior - Eric Metaxas  (Read 2741 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TomSea

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40,432
  • Gender: Male
  • All deserve a trial if accused
Excerpted:

Quote
Eric Metaxas Explains Why Christians Should Still Vote for Trump Despite his ‘Odious’ Behavior

Quote
It’s a fact that if Hillary Clinton is elected, the country’s chance to have a Supreme Court that values the Constitution—and the genuine liberty and self-government for which millions have died—is gone. Not for four years, or eight, but forever. Many say Mr. Trump can’t be trusted to deliver on this score, but Mrs. Clinton certainly can be trusted in the opposite direction. For our kids and grandkids, are we not obliged to take our best shot at this? Shall we sit on our hands and refuse to choose?

If imperiously flouting the rules by having a private server endangered American lives and secrets and may lead to more deaths, if she cynically deleted thousands of emails, and if her foreign-policy judgment led to the rise of Islamic State, won’t refusing to vote make me responsible for those suffering as a result of these things? How do I squirm out of this horrific conundrum? It’s unavoidable: We who can vote must answer to God for these people, whom He loves. We are indeed our brothers’ and sisters’ keepers.

We would be responsible for passively electing someone who champions the abomination of partial-birth abortion, someone who is celebrated by an organization that sells baby parts. We already live in a country where judges force bakers, florists and photographers to violate their consciences and faith—and Mrs. Clinton has zealously ratified this. If we believe this ends with bakers and photographers, we are horribly mistaken. No matter your faith or lack of faith, this statist view of America will dramatically affect you and your children.

For many of us, this is very painful, pulling the lever for someone many think odious. But please consider this: A vote for Donald Trump is not necessarily a vote for Donald Trump himself. It is a vote for those who will be affected by the results of this election. Not to vote is to vote. God will not hold us guiltless.

Mr. Metaxas, host of the nationally syndicated “Eric Metaxas Show,” is the author of “If You Can Keep It: The Forgotten Promise of American Liberty” (Viking, 2016).

SOURCE: The Wall Street Journal

Read More At: http://blackchristiannews.com/2016/10/eric-metaxas-explains-why-christians-should-still-vote-for-trump-despite-his-odious-behavior/

Offline dfwgator

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,487
It's the "bad choice" vs "the even worse choice."

geronl

  • Guest
They can't even come up with a good reason to vote Trump. It's pathetic.

Offline r9etb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,467
  • Gender: Male
They can't even come up with a good reason to vote Trump. It's pathetic.

Worse, they tacitly want us to accept the unfounded assumption that Trump possesses a basic fitness for the office. 

But there is nothing in his behavior to suggest that; in fact, his behavior suggests precisely the opposite.

Their position essentially boils down to, "there could be nothing as bad a Hillary Clinton presidency."  Trump's  behavior suggests otherwise.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 06:15:23 pm by r9etb »

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
This, along with Victor Davis Hansen's NR piece that was posted earlier today on the board, represent some of the better apologia I've read for Donald Trump.  But none have addressed the primary concern I have about Trump.

Not his changing political positions.

Not his playboy lifestyle.

Not the sincerity of his conservative credentials.

Not his resurrection of isolationism and anti-immigrant populism.

Not the danger to us all posed by a corrupt and venal President Hillary Clinton. 

No,  my worry is Trump's temperament.   His inability to accept criticism or counsel.  His propensity to hold grudges, and to attack reflexively and ask questions later.  His Nixonian paranoia.   

The one criticism of Trump that cuts deepest, and matters the most to me,  is the danger he poses as Commander in Chief,  with his ability to put our troops in harm's way,  and ultimately to command the nuclear codes.    I'd appreciate any apologia that members can find that addresses squarely the man's temperament, and why it shouldn't be seen as a clear, present and disqualifying danger.   
« Last Edit: October 17, 2016, 08:23:42 pm by Jazzhead »
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,567
For good measure, this clown Metaxas throws a line about God in at the end.

Love how some of these religionists throw guilt around. That always means they've run out of cogent arguments.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline mountaineer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 78,781
It's the "bad choice" vs "the even worse choice."
Yeah. But it's a choice we have to make.
Support Israel's emergency medical service. afmda.org

Offline mountaineer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 78,781
Okay, that's also one of the choices. No matter what, God is sovereign.
Support Israel's emergency medical service. afmda.org

Online jmyrlefuller

  • J. Myrle Fuller
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,371
  • Gender: Male
  • Realistic nihilist
    • Fullervision
Eric Metaxas is employed by Salem Media Group.
New profile picture in honor of Public Domain Day 2024

Offline montanajoe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,324
A vote for Donald Trump is not necessarily a vote for Donald Trump himself

 :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly:

So those defending the indefensible candidate are down to  saying don't worry, you are not actually voting for him.

Is this guy a SNL writter :pondering:
« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 12:40:18 am by montanajoe »

Offline Frank Cannon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,097
  • Gender: Male
Eric Metaxas 5 minutes prior to writing this piece....


Online jmyrlefuller

  • J. Myrle Fuller
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,371
  • Gender: Male
  • Realistic nihilist
    • Fullervision
A vote for Donald Trump is not necessarily a vote for Donald Trump himself

 :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly:

So those defending the indefensible candidate are down to  saying don't worry, you are not actually voting for him.

Is this guy a SNL writter :pondering:
But a vote for anyone other than Donald Trump, or not voting at all, is a vote for Hillary. I'm not sure these people have a full grasp of how voting actually works.
New profile picture in honor of Public Domain Day 2024

Offline TomSea

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40,432
  • Gender: Male
  • All deserve a trial if accused
Metaxas is right, don't blame me if HRC wins, gun grabbing, more abortions, more flawed foreign policy, open borders, terrorism,  all comes in greater amounts.

Offline mountaineer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 78,781
Here's an article I've just come across which references Eric Metaxas' recent comments. I'd never heard of this fellow Jethani before a few minutes ago, and I post this only to add another perspective to the discussion, fwiw.
Quote
Why I'm Not Voting
Oct. 13, 2016
Skye Jethani



For months I have made my views about Mr. Trump’s candidacy known on my blog as well as on The Phil Vischer Podcast, and those views have sparked both applause and anger. I am also a founding member of Public Faith, a new coalition of non-partisan Christians seeking to be a voice for the common good. Public Faith has released a number of statements during the campaign on matters of religious liberty, racial injustice, abortion, and poverty. Last week we also issued a statement about Mr. Trump’s fitness for the presidency.

Some on my Facebook page have misinterpreted Public Faith’s denunciation of Mr. Trump as an endorsement for Mrs. Clinton despite the statement explicitly saying otherwise. As I have shared on the podcast, I cannot in good conscience vote for either major party candidate. (To be clear, I will be voting for the other races on the ballot just not the contest for president.) As we draw closer to November 8, however, the position of the conscientious non-voter is being attacked. “By not voting you’re letting her win,” they say as if she is the White Witch and we are woodland creatures terrified of being turned into stone.

Well-meaning Christians have argued that we ought to hold our nose and vote for Mr. Trump because he is “the lesser of two evils.” This is the central argument made by Eric Metaxas in his recent op-ed in The Wall Street Journal. I encourage you to read Metaxas’ full article. I disagree with him, but his argument should be prayerfully considered. He articulates the case for supporting Mr. Trump better than most. He writes:

“Many say they won’t vote because choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil. But this is sophistry…. Not voting—or voting for a third candidate who cannot win—is a rationalization designed more than anything to assuage our consciences.”

First, assuming that a Christian’s conscience is guided by the Holy Spirit, why is following it suddenly unacceptable? Having a clear conscience before God is repeatedly affirmed by Scripture as admirable and essential.

Second, while the world sometimes presents us with scenarios in which we must select between two horrible choices, this presidential election is not one of them. No one is under any obligation to vote for only Trump or Clinton. Christians have the very real, and arguably faithful, option to select neither candidate. That too is our right as Americans. Imagine the testimony to our country if Christians withheld their votes en masse from both candidates. It would trigger a seismic political upheaval. Even more, it would declare to everyone that our allegiance belongs to Jesus Christ above all else. That would be, in my view, a very positive outcome regardless of who occupies 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

Third, Metaxas’ argument appears strikingly similar to the devil’s strategy as described by C.S. Lewis in Mere Christianity. He said the devil, “always sends errors into the world in pairs–pairs of opposites. And he always encourages us to spend a lot of time thinking which is the worse. You see why, of course? He relies on your extra dislike of the one error to draw you gradually into the opposite one. But do not let us be fooled. We have to keep our eyes on the goal and go straight between both errors.” (Thanks to Michelle Phoenix for bringing this quote back to my attention via Facebook.)

In this election we have the opportunity to “go straight between both errors,” and by doing so maintain the integrity of our faith in the public square. As Andy Crouch wrote in Christianity Today, supporting Trump is more than a violation of Christian conscience, it also betrays our witness and reveals our captivity to political idols:

“Enthusiasm for a candidate like Trump gives our neighbors ample reason to doubt that we believe Jesus is Lord. They see that some of us are so self-interested, and so self-protective, that we will ally ourselves with someone who violates all that is sacred to us—in hope, almost certainly a vain hope given his mendacity and record of betrayal, that his rule will save us.”

Finally, let me address the knock out punch at the end of Eric Metaxas’ column against Christians like me who plan to withhold their vote for president. He writes:

“For many of us, this is very painful, pulling the lever for someone many think odious. But please consider this: A vote for Donald Trump is not necessarily a vote for Donald Trump himself. It is a vote for those who will be affected by the results of this election. Not to vote is to vote. God will not hold us guiltless.”

Rhetoric like this is why some Christians have come to believe that casting a ballot on Election Day is the highest expression of their Christian faith, and why they carry such anxiety about the outcome. To believe their fate or that of the world hangs in the balance reveals how distorted our vision of God’s sovereignty really is. And to say that voting for Trump isn’t really voting for Trump requires a looseness with logic and language on par with Bill Clinton asking what the definition of the word “is” is.

On one point, however, I do agree with Mr. Metaxas—we are responsible to God for our decision, but our guilt or innocence will not be limited to what we do on November 8.

Metaxas ignores the fact that Mr. Trump’s odious character was well known before the release of the horrific Access Hollywood hot mic recording on October 7. It was well documented before he accepted the nomination of the Republican Party in July, and it was on full display during the primaries when Trump could have been eliminated from consideration. Donald Trump’s name did not magically appear on the ballot. People put it there—including a disturbing number of Christians who voted for him in the primaries.

What’s most troubling is not Donald Trump’s odious character, but what his nomination says about ours. And for that God will not hold us guiltless.

Evangelical leaders who have enthusiastically supported Trump for many months, like Eric Metaxas, need to take responsibility for creating a climate of paranoia among Christians that allowed Trump’s candidacy to be deemed acceptable in the first place. Having freed this beast from the abyss, they are now asking the rest of us to join them on its back because they think the other beast is worse. Good luck, Mr. Metaxas, but I’m staying with the Lamb.
Support Israel's emergency medical service. afmda.org

Offline mountaineer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 78,781
Franklin Graham
Facebook
posted after last night's debate

Well, the presidential debates are now over. The countdown to the election is on—November 8 is only 19 days away. My suggestion to Christians? Pray earnestly. I pray God will open Americans’ eyes to the threats that are looming before us. Our unsecured border to the south. China's military buildup in the South China sea. The redrawing of Europe’s borders and Europe now flooded with millions of refugees. ISIS now fully operational in at least 18 countries and growing. Russia’s engagement in Syria where they now have a massive military presence. We need China and Russia as allies not adversaries. America is in a far more dangerous and vulnerable position than we were 8 years ago. And the most dangerous and vulnerable place to be is away from God who has blessed this nation more than any other on earth. The many problems we face cannot be solved by man alone, but we must have Divine help to find peaceful and long-lasting solutions.

“Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD” (Psalm 33:12).
Support Israel's emergency medical service. afmda.org

Offline musiclady

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,682
Eric Metaxas is a highly intelligent man and a great writer  (Amazing Grace, Bonhoeffer), but there is no reason for any other Christian to do what he says other Christians should do.

This is part of the problem with having theological, spiritual men involve themselves in making political pronouncements.  They are not well enough informed about Trump to make these kinds of "you should vote for" arguments.  If they say, "I am voting for, and this is why" it's a different story.

Never before in our lifetimes has a "Republican" candidate been so totally unfit for office, in every single way... politically and morally.  You cannot force former ideals onto the process while Trump is involved.  It's not just that his behavior is "odious."  It's that his entire person is odious.

Sorry, Eric.  I will always respect you, but I don't follow the leader.  No vote for the odious Trump.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2016, 01:41:33 pm by musiclady »
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline musiclady

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,682
A vote for Donald Trump is not necessarily a vote for Donald Trump himself

 :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly:

So those defending the indefensible candidate are down to  saying don't worry, you are not actually voting for him.

Is this guy a SNL writter :pondering:

He's actually a very serious man making a very serious mistake.  His desire to make Trump fit into his very moral world requires great, shall we say, flexibility of thought....

I wish these people would stop working so hard to make what is wrong, right, and do what they do best.  Metaxas has been working toward helping people in a very unethical world make ethical decisions.

Unfortunately, the effort to make voting for Donald Trump the most ethical choice falls flat.  He doesn't believe anything Christians believe in...... and there's never been a Republican candidate for whom that was true.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline EasyAce

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,385
  • Gender: Male
  • RIP Blue, 2012-2020---my big, gentle friend.
Eric Metaxas is a highly intelligent man and a great writer  (Amazing Grace, Bonhoeffer), but there is no reason for any other Christian to do what he says other Christians should do.

One of the tragedies within the tragedy of this presidential campaign is how many good, intelligent, talented
men and women, some of the most respected minds in the country's intellectual life, including some of the
most respected theological thinkers and writers, have gone completely into the tank for either Donaldus
Minimus or Hilarious Rodent Clinton.

They are two of the most singularly grotesque vulgarians ever to have been taken seriously as prospective
presidential material, neither of whose prospective policies will bring anything but grief to what remains of
this republic, neither of whose (I use the word very loosely) thinking indicates anything but ignorance
of constitutional law, neither of whose temperaments inspires, neither of whom incline in their (using loosely
again) thought toward upholding and defending freedom, individual rights and responsibilities, and a properly
construed government (whose sole legitimate business---other than protecting us from enemies actual
or provably iminent from abroad---is to stay the hell out of your business, my business, any citizen's
business, until or unless one citizen would obstruct or abrogate a fellow citizen's equivalent rights), as
opposed to the long-entrenched and improperly consecrated State (whose business is butting into everyone's
business whether it is competent or constitutionally sactioned to do so).

Whichever one is elected, alas, they may yet deliver what was once thought impossible: either one of them
stands an excellent chance, poor us, of making His Excellency Al-Hashish Field Marshmallow Dr. Barack Obama
Dada, COD, RIP, LSMFT, Would-Have-Been Life President of the Republic Formerly Known as the United States,
into an object of nostalgia.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2016, 09:58:02 pm by EasyAce »


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Online jmyrlefuller

  • J. Myrle Fuller
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,371
  • Gender: Male
  • Realistic nihilist
    • Fullervision
Whichever one is elected, alas, they may yet deliver what was once thought impossible: either one of them
stands an excellent chance, poor us, of making His Excellency Al-Hashish Field Marshmallow Dr. Barack Obama
Dada, COD, RIP, LSMFT, Would-Have-Been Life President of the Republic Formerly Known as the United States,
into an object of nostalgia.
Nope, that is still pretty much impossible, because it was the fundamental transformation under Obama, and the neutering of the Republican Party that ensued, that led to this.
New profile picture in honor of Public Domain Day 2024

Offline mountaineer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 78,781
One of my favorite Christian apologists, Frank Turek (author of "I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist"), wrote this:
Quote
   Christians and Donald Trump: Our Meeting with Him
October 17, 2016

I was asked to participate in a meeting between Donald Trump and about 35 Christian leaders Friday night in Charlotte.  There was no requirement for participants to endorse Mr. Trump. Instead, it was a chance to exchange ideas with Mr. Trump on issues especially important to the Christian community, such as life, judges, and the growing problem of the government coercing religious people to violate their religious beliefs.

As he did in a similar meeting I attended in New York a couple of weeks ago, Mr. Trump affirmed his commitment to protect life, appoint conservative judges vetted by the Federalist Society, and to work with Christians on religious freedom issues.  While I don’t endorse candidates, I am encouraged by Mr. Trump’s willingness and openness to personally discuss these issues and express his agreement with the positions I support.

For those Christians who think it’s wrong to meet with someone like Mr. Trump, I ask them to take off their Pharisee robes for a minute to see whom Jesus met with and ministered to.  Meeting with Mr. Trump is not only biblical, it’s an opportunity to do good. When one of the two people who will be President of the United States asks for your opinion, why wouldn’t you provide it?  It’s a dereliction of duty to not speak the truth on issues that directly affect lives and our ability to preach the Gospel and live our faith!

Mr. Trump’s team reached out to me and other Christians.  I’d meet with Mrs. Clinton if she requested my opinion (I’ve only heard crickets so far. And I doubt there are any evangelical Christians expecting her call since she wants to use the force of government to change our beliefs, and her party has demonstrated hostility to biblical Christianity for the past eight years).  ...
Rest of article.

Support Israel's emergency medical service. afmda.org