What the hell is WRONG with being friends with Russia?

[dfwgator]

I do know.  Clinton overstepped there, and made a huge mistake by trying to assert military influence in a region that Russia has long considered to the "theirs."  But Clinton's rationale for being there in the first place had more to do with the political optics of "preventing genocide," as he had failed to do in Rwanda.  There were certainly other geopolitical factors at play, including a sense of keeping Russia contained.  But that's the kind of power play that Putin understands, and respects.

It was also about establishing a base for Wahabbism in Europe on behalf of our Saudi masters.

[Jazzhead]

I keep hearing that Trump is a friend of Russia, and it is always said as if that is a terrible thing. I am only asking Why?

Ask the question after Trump releases his tax returns.   I want to know how much of the financing for his businesses is coming from Russian oligarchs.   The problem with Trump and Russia, until proven otherwise, is a basic problem of a conflict of interest.   

[dfwgator]

Ask the question after Trump releases his tax returns.   I want to know how much of the financing for his businesses is coming from Russian oligarchs.   The problem with Trump and Russia, until proven otherwise, is a basic problem of a conflict of interest.

I could ask that same question of Hillary as well.

[jpsb]

We had a chance to bring Russia into the fold after the End of the Cold War.  But Bush with his "New World Order", and Clinton with his recklessness in the Balkans, squandered the victory that Reagan had given them.

100% correct, and now we will paid the price for their stupidity. We better hope Hillary is defeated or you might very well need very strong sun block. Russia will go to war over Syria and so will Hillary.

[dfwgator]

Ask the question after Trump releases his tax returns.   I want to know how much of the financing for his businesses is coming from Russian oligarchs.   The problem with Trump and Russia, until proven otherwise, is a basic problem of a conflict of interest.

You can't argue that Obama and Hillary are the best gifts the Russians could have ever gotten.

[sneakypete]

Corporations own our politicians,and Russia refuses to allow them to control politics in Russia. Which means they don't get a taste of any business deal that goes down there.

Russia  has a history of inviting them in to build plants,and once they get product rolling off the assembly lines,either tossing them out on their asses,or just killing them and then taking over.

[dfwgator]

Corporations own our politicians,and Russia refuses to allow them to control politics in Russia. Which means they don't get a taste of any business deal that goes down there.

Russia  has a history of inviting them in to build plants,and once they get product rolling off the assembly lines,either tossing them out on their asses,or just killing them and then taking over.

I don't think there are any Russians
And there ain't no Yanks
Just corporate criminals
Playing with tanks

The Call- The Walls Came Down

[sneakypete]

I keep hearing that Trump is a friend of Russia, and it is always said as if that is a terrible thing. I am only asking Why?

Why is it so terrible if Russia is a friend of our President? I would love that. I do not see the problem that the Liberal Stalinist Moeist do?

They love every Communist in history except Putin, because Putin may be a friend of Trump.

I cannot figure it out. Does the Left love Russia, or do they hate Russia? My whole life I thought the hippies were all in the Che Guevara Communist camp. I don't know?

Now, suddenly Russia is a bad thing? If Russia loves Trump, then I love him too. I do not see the problem.

Back in the USSR!
Long Live Che! Long Live Trump!

@240B

The short story is that not only is Russia no longer a Communist state,they hate and mistrust communists now that that are Fascists. Very few people have more historic reason for hating and fearing "Collective Corporatism" (HEY! I am claiming rights to a new phrase I just coined!) than the Russians.

[sneakypete]

Not much. This is one thing I agree with the Trumpkins on. Liberals are the enemy, not Russia.

@Weird Tolkienish Figure

So,you hate people like Thomas Jefferson?

[dfwgator]

@240B

The short story is that not only is Russia no longer a Communist state,they hate and mistrust communists now that that are Fascists. Very few people have more historic reason for hating and fearing "Collective Corporatism" (HEY! I am claiming rights to a new phrase I just coined!) than the Russians.

Today's Russia more closely compares with Tsarist Russia than the Soviet Union.  And US-Russian relations under the Czars were cordial.  Heck they even sold Alaska to us.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Nothing wrong with being friends with Russell.

[dfwgator]

@Weird Tolkienish Figure

So,you hate people like Thomas Jefferson?

The Communists hijacked the term "Liberal".  But you knew that.

[r9etb]

And US-Russian relations under the Czars were cordial.

That's because in a foreign policy/military sense we only knew them from a distance, as opposed to their being right next door to us. That situation no longer exists -- our and their interests can and do come into more direct conflict now, since both nations have global ambitions and responsibilities.

[sneakypete]

There is a myth on the right that Russia is our friend. Nothing could be further from the truth,<<

As has been said before,"Countries don't have friends. They have allies of convenience."

 >>Russia is our enemy and they will do anything in thier power to ultimately defeat the US. I've been in Russia and with few exceptions the average Russian hates Americans. <<

You must have been there after Clinton and Gore finished robbing their treasury and stealing World Bank money from them. I went there a couple of times in the early 90's,and with only 1 exception (a really old guy in Moscow wearing WW-2 medals on his suit coat) everybody was thrilled to meet me and couldn't do enough for me. Never been treated better anywhere I went.

Which makes sense. If we were to get rid of OUR corrupt officials like Russia got rid of theirs,we would be the ideal allies for each other to prevent the coming Azian economic and political takeover.


>>Additionally I have run into the Russian state sponsored  Mafia throughout the world and they make the Mexican Mafia look like chior boys and the US mafia is not even close.<<

I ran into a couple in Russia,and while there can be no doubt they are brutal,they sure weren't very smart. I ended up chasing one down the street in Moscow,with Russians smiling and applauding. SOB ran a red light in his Mercedes and almost ran over me and a bunch of other people. I screamed a few choice obscenities at him and he stopped his car and got out to approach me,most likely figuring I was scared of a Russian in a Mercedes. When I started running at him instead of away from him,he panicked and forgot to even get back in his car and drive off. SOB ran right past the open door and was high-stepping it down the sidewalk. Scared the HELL out of the Russian woman I was with.

Like all other weasels,they can be dangerous when they are in a pack and you are helpless,though.

>>Putin and Russia are  our enemy..<<

No,WE are THEIR enemy,thanks to Clinton corruption.

[dfwgator]

And as I said earlier, Russians still like Reagan, and respect him.   

I think Reagan had he been allowed to stay in office would have figured out a way to bring Russia closer to the West.     Bush blew it.

[geronl]

Putin wants to recreate the Soviet Union.

[dfwgator]

Putin wants to recreate the Soviet Union.

No he doesn't.  They aren't even going to commemorate the 100-year anniversary of The Bolshevik Revolution next year.

If anything, he'd love to install himself as the new Tsar.

[sneakypete]

Piffle.  What happened to Russia after the Cold War was an internal collapse, and a power vacuum that was filled by those who were powerful and ruthless enough to fill it.  There was little that the West could have done, other than what it did do -- for better and worse -- mainly in the form of international commerce.

The fact that the vacuum was filled by the likes of Putin and other functionaries of the previous regime, is only to be expected. What we see now in Russia is what every generation in the past several centuries has seen in Russia.

@r9etb

If you really believe all that,you just weren't paying attention.

I forget now how many billions of World Bank grants that Gore and Clinton stole from Russian accounts,but I THINK it was around 10. Believe it or not,but all the World Bank money that was supposed to have gone to feed,clothe,and house Russians after their economy collapsed was funneled through a bank in NYC,and Goober Gore was actually put in place to head it up. Once all those missing billions became apparent,there was an investigation into what happened to the money,and neither Gore nor ANY of the Dim banking advisors hired to help him manage it were found at fault for any of it. The ENTIRE blame was put on a Russian woman in her 30's that spoke English and was based at the bank in NYC as the Russia rep.

IRRC,she was found guilty and given a sentence,but I strongly suspect she only served a very short sentence and is living somewhere on her own private island by this time. Seemed obvious to me she was paid to be the desiginated "Fall guy" to take the blame to keep investigations away from the bankers that were backing Goober,and Co.

I can't believe any sane and honest person would even hire Goober to manage a church Bingo game,never mind control billions of dollars.

[mirraflake]

Putin wants to recreate the Soviet Union.

Putin has said numerous times the Soviet era was bad for Russia and it was  a mistake.

I agree with @dfwgator, he want to be the new Czar.

@geronl

[dfwgator]

Putin has said numerous times the Soviet era was bad for Russia and it was  a mistake.

I agree with @dfwgator, he want to be the new Czar.

@geronl

A lot of people get caught up in the praise he gave to Stalin.  But, Russians don't view Stalin as a Communist, they think of him more in terms of Stalin's hero, Ivan the Terrible.   A ruthless leader who nonetheless repelled the invader and made Russia a great power. 

[sneakypete]

You do realize how close we came to war with Russia in Kosovo?   That's why the Russians don't want Hillary.   In fact, I think all their blathering is a way to send a message to Hillary, that there will be no Kosovos this time.

@dfwgator

The Russians don't want Bubbette! because they are WELL aware of the Clinton strong arm tactics and greed.

Go to the archives of the St.Petersburg Times (Russian) right before the G7 economic summit there that Clinton showed up for a week early,and see what they have to say.

ONE of the things they wrote about was missing supplies paid for with World Bank Grant money to buy food,heating oil,and clothes for the upcoming winter,and how the checks had been written and none of it had shown up.

Another that I remember well was tired to Tyson's Chicken. The Russian press (and our own press has NEVER been as free as the Russian press of the early 90's) wrote about how up to 40 percent of the Tyson's Chicken ordered and paid for with World Bank money was arriving in Russia rotten,and how when the Russian officials threatened Tyson with no more World Grant chicken buys unless they refunded the money paid for spoiled chicken and threatened to not order any more from them unless they complied,Clinton showed up and threatened Yeltsin with a total shut down of World Bank money unless the Russian government renewed the Tyson Chicken contract.

Don't forget,at that time the typical Russia was honestly on the verge of facing possible starvation or freezing to death that winter if the World Bank money supply was closed down. There were old people sleeping on park benches in the snow in November when I was there. They had rented out their apartments to "the new mafiya" in order to get the money to eat. Just a year or two earlier 1 Ruble had the purchasing power of 1 US Dollar because the Soviets kept it artificially pumped up so the people would feel secure,and suddenly,literally overnight,it took over 5,000 Rubles to buy ONE Dollar's worth of goods. You can imagine what that did to life saving in a country where that was the only investment that was legal.

[montanajoe]

I went there a couple of times in the early 90's,and with only 1 exception (a really old guy in Moscow wearing WW-2 medals on his suit coat) everybody was thrilled to meet me and couldn't do enough for me. Never been treated better anywhere I went.


Russia in the 1990's is far different than Putin's Russia today. They are our enemy and Putin wants to reestablish them as a world power as do the Russian people. There may be a few areas of interest but frankly I can't see very few as their primary goal in international affairs is to hinder US interests and advance their own.

[sneakypete]

Nope.

The collapse had been coming for years, began in earnest with Gorbachev and accelerated with Yeltsin, and Russia for quite a while was on the brink of anarchy.  That had nothing to do with "interventionist cartels" (which is a fancy way of saying "neocon," which is also stupid), and everything to do with the total and inevitable collapse of the communist government and economy.

The subsequent reassertion of power by the "Russian Oligarchs" and the likes of Putin, was predictable because it's how Russia has always been.  The question of how to deal with their attempts to re-establish "Old Russia" is not an easy one, especially as it deals with a kind of power projection that was supposedly rendered obsolete a century ago.

The confluence of Putin's brand of hard-nosed power politics, and Obama's brand of talk-heavy and sophomoric narcissism, naturally favors Putin.  Interestingly, Hillary Clinton's brand of corrupt and self-serving criminality is probably closest to Putin's approach, although he'll steam-roll her just as effectively as he has Obama and Kerry.  Trump would get mad, and just try to tweet him to death....

@r9etb

There is no talk of establishing "Old Russia". That's pure crap that was flushed down the toilet long ago. Russia,and Putin,are now fascists,not communists. Their beef with the globalist assholes that control our country is the same beef the same globalist western assholes that fed you that POV. They don't want competition. The prime difference is the Russians want to control Russia,which is no walk in the park,and the western globalist fascist bastards want to control the world.

[sneakypete]

I could ask that same question of Hillary as well.

Yeah,but you would get even less of an answer because the majority of her money will never see a western bank,never mind the eyes of the IRS.

[dfwgator]

I remember as an avid shortwave radio listener back then, listening to Radio Moscow.   They were so hard up for money, they lent their studios to outside groups.

I remember listening to one of those broadcasts,  it was some dude singing in Japanese and saying something about "The Truth".

Well turns out, that guy was Shoko Asahara, the leader of Aum Shinrikyo,  the cult that was responsible for the Ricin-attack in the Tokyo subway.