Author Topic: Pipeline developer buys ranch near North Dakota protest camp  (Read 2756 times)

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Pipeline developer buys ranch near North Dakota protest camp
« on: September 30, 2016, 01:24:51 pm »

Pipeline developer buys ranch near North Dakota protest camp

September 23, 2016

By James MacPherson, Associated Press
http://www.pennenergy.com/articles/pennenergy/2016/09/oil-and-gas-news-pipeline-developer-buys-ranch-near-north-dakota-protest-camp.html?cmpid=EnlWeeklyPetroSeptember302016&eid=290980193&bid=1543478
BISMARCK, N.D. (AP) — The company developing the four-state Dakota Access oil pipeline has purchased a North Dakota ranch where a violent protest occurred earlier this month due to what tribal officials said was construction crews destroying burial and cultural sites.

Morton County records show the deal between Texas-based Energy Transfer Partners and David and Brenda Meyer of Flasher was finalized Thursday. Records show ...

Excerpt, more at:
http://www.pennenergy.com/articles/pennenergy/2016/09/oil-and-gas-news-pipeline-developer-buys-ranch-near-north-dakota-protest-camp.html?cmpid=EnlWeeklyPetroSeptember302016&eid=290980193&bid=1543478
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Pipeline developer buys ranch near North Dakota protest camp
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2016, 01:50:08 pm »
And this means....?
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Pipeline developer buys ranch near North Dakota protest camp
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2016, 02:19:44 pm »
And this means....?
The protesters, including the tribe, did not own the land they complained about the pipeline crossing. It was private property, the pipeline is following a route another pipeline has already been laid along, and along a Right of Way for a major power line. No artifacts or burials were found on the land when the other utilities were installed. The water crossing remains an obstacle to progress, controlled by the Corps of Engineers.

How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Pipeline developer buys ranch near North Dakota protest camp
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2016, 07:10:45 pm »
The protesters, including the tribe, did not own the land they complained about the pipeline crossing. It was private property, the pipeline is following a route another pipeline has already been laid along, and along a Right of Way for a major power line. No artifacts or burials were found on the land when the other utilities were installed. The water crossing remains an obstacle to progress, controlled by the Corps of Engineers.

Won'T it be tough to establish Indian artifacts or burial grounds underneath the lake or river?

Looks more aND more like an old fashioned shakedown as a federal court already said no evidence exists to preclude construction
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Pipeline developer buys ranch near North Dakota protest camp
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2016, 09:34:14 pm »
Won'T it be tough to establish Indian artifacts or burial grounds underneath the lake or river?

Looks more aND more like an old fashioned shakedown as a federal court already said no evidence exists to preclude construction
Of course, but the Corps of Engineers have that jurisdiction and the lake is man-made.

The 'sacred ground' shakedown is pretty well known to the industry. Pretty much the same way a downer cow hit by a roustabout truck becomes a prize-winning bull when the bill comes due.

If that ground was sacred, why, after all this time, has the tribe not found a way to purchase it?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Pipeline developer buys ranch near North Dakota protest camp
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2016, 10:29:37 pm »
Of course, but the Corps of Engineers have that jurisdiction and the lake is man-made.

The 'sacred ground' shakedown is pretty well known to the industry. Pretty much the same way a downer cow hit by a roustabout truck becomes a prize-winning bull when the bill comes due.

If that ground was sacred, why, after all this time, has the tribe not found a way to purchase it?

Purchase land under a lake or river?

Likely cannot buy it.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Pipeline developer buys ranch near North Dakota protest camp
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2016, 12:28:39 am »
Purchase land under a lake or river?

Likely cannot buy it.
There are people who retained title to their land in the flood margins of the Missouri River lakes when the dams were built. They came under considerable pressure to sell to the Government, but a few held out. Damned few. The Corps of Engineers controls the shorelines and bottom under those lakes (Ft. Peck, Sakakaweja, and Oahee), to the point that even those who still own the old but submerged homestead sites cannot walk out there when the water is low and pick up stuff that remained when the family moved, or they will be found in violation of some Corps antiquities regulation.

So, it is possible to own that land, and the mineral rights thereto, but the Corps has control if it is below the high water mark. Mineral rights can be leased by the owners if they were retained, because horizontal drilling has made it possible to tap those resources from well on shore, back off Corps Land. As far as I know, the title to that land can be transferred, just the same as any other land, but usage is severely restricted, depending on the relation of the land to water level.

The pipeline crosses the ranch the pipeline operator purchased, the Tribe has no control unless an injunction is granted on the basis of 'cultural assets', and their attempt to seize control through those means has failed.

Not only have no cultural assets or burials been found in prior excavations and surveys, the Tribe made no apparent effort to obtain title to this land they suddenly deem "sacred". The only remotely valid concern raised is one for water supplies, but that would require a problem with the pipeline itself, and in the stretch where it crosses the water or close enough to that to contaminate the water. I have little doubt that all will be rigorously inspected and meticulously emplaced to avoid such problems.

Still, the Obama Administration is delaying approved construction by requesting a 'voluntary' (like the income tax?) suspension of activity.

With the understanding that the pipeline will have the takeaway capacity of nearly half of the production of the Williston Basin (including the Bakken and Three Forks) at peak, it is highly likely that every Environmental and other organization (often with no connection to the State or the area) who can will throw a dog into the ring, will, to hold up the project for a "settlement" (blackmail).

Not only is the investment enormous, but the loss of potential revenue is as well, and delay only makes things worse for the pipeline company.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Pipeline developer buys ranch near North Dakota protest camp
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2016, 02:06:00 am »
There are people who retained title to their land in the flood margins of the Missouri River lakes when the dams were built. They came under considerable pressure to sell to the Government, but a few held out. Damned few. The Corps of Engineers controls the shorelines and bottom under those lakes (Ft. Peck, Sakakaweja, and Oahee), to the point that even those who still own the old but submerged homestead sites cannot walk out there when the water is low and pick up stuff that remained when the family moved, or they will be found in violation of some Corps antiquities regulation.

So, it is possible to own that land, and the mineral rights thereto, but the Corps has control if it is below the high water mark. Mineral rights can be leased by the owners if they were retained, because horizontal drilling has made it possible to tap those resources from well on shore, back off Corps Land. As far as I know, the title to that land can be transferred, just the same as any other land, but usage is severely restricted, depending on the relation of the land to water level.

The pipeline crosses the ranch the pipeline operator purchased, the Tribe has no control unless an injunction is granted on the basis of 'cultural assets', and their attempt to seize control through those means has failed.

Not only have no cultural assets or burials been found in prior excavations and surveys, the Tribe made no apparent effort to obtain title to this land they suddenly deem "sacred". The only remotely valid concern raised is one for water supplies, but that would require a problem with the pipeline itself, and in the stretch where it crosses the water or close enough to that to contaminate the water. I have little doubt that all will be rigorously inspected and meticulously emplaced to avoid such problems.

Still, the Obama Administration is delaying approved construction by requesting a 'voluntary' (like the income tax?) suspension of activity.

With the understanding that the pipeline will have the takeaway capacity of nearly half of the production of the Williston Basin (including the Bakken and Three Forks) at peak, it is highly likely that every Environmental and other organization (often with no connection to the State or the area) who can will throw a dog into the ring, will, to hold up the project for a "settlement" (blackmail).

Not only is the investment enormous, but the loss of potential revenue is as well, and delay only makes things worse for the pipeline company.

The Corps used to be a purely technical outfit that performed commendable civil works projects, but now is a bastardized political machine that acts like a disgusting bottom-feeder.

Obama is now trying to turn the military into the same as the Corps.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2016, 02:06:38 am by IsailedawayfromFR »
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Pipeline developer buys ranch near North Dakota protest camp
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2016, 02:24:31 am »
The Corps used to be a purely technical outfit that performed commendable civil works projects, but now is a bastardized political machine that acts like a disgusting bottom-feeder.

Obama is now trying to turn the military into the same as the Corps.
In some places they did okay, but if you wanted to see TFUTEAFU, just put a teaspoon of salt in the water. They did not do well (gross understatement) in the Chesapeake Bay area tidewater, at least where I was.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline SZonian

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Throwing our allegiances to political parties in the long run gave away our liberty.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Pipeline developer buys ranch near North Dakota protest camp
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2016, 11:22:45 pm »
The actress doesn't live in ND. WTF is she doing there? I'd bet dimes to donuts most of the protestors don't live in ND, either. Someone needs to start a counter campaign:

These people want YOU out of work.
(list the organizations in on this)
These people want YOUR gasoline to cost more.

etc.

I find it ironic at least some of those signs are done on plastic...
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis