Author Topic: Who Really Built Your Computer?  (Read 1720 times)

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Offline Suppressed

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Re: Who Really Built Your Computer?
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2016, 08:00:14 PM »
@ Dexter @Suppressed @montanajoe
I am going to look into it. My grandson is continually kicking me off mine to play games. Maybe it is a project we can do together.  I have an old pavilion.  Anybody got directions to a website or such to begin with? Be nice to do a gamer type build.


@bigheadfred

Some great websites that I like...

http://logicalincrements.com  (Scroll down on home page to see the big table)
This site shows various components at various price ranges (from Destitute to Monstrous  ^-^), allowing you to choose components that don't bottleneck your system.  You want components that are all about the same range, so you can choose a range category and select components from that row.  (For example, you might choose a great CPU, but if you don't give it matching RAM, you've wasted money...)

http://pcpartpicker.com
This website allows you to create a build by selecting parts and it will tally up the costs.  There are also builds that people have put together (view the build guides), and if you see one you like, you have a shopping list right there.

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/
Be sure to read the rules first, but you can ask questions here, and you can even upload your build from pcpartpicker.com and ask for advice.  Helpful people will suggest ways to improve the build to meet your needs, save you money, etc.

As for actually building the PC, you can just Google "how to build a pc" or similar, and look through videos and pages.  There are many.

I hope this helps!
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Offline bigheadfred

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Re: Who Really Built Your Computer?
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2016, 08:10:41 PM »
@bigheadfred

Some great websites that I like...

http://logicalincrements.com  (Scroll down on home page to see the big table)
This site shows various components at various price ranges (from Destitute to Monstrous  ^-^), allowing you to choose components that don't bottleneck your system.  You want components that are all about the same range, so you can choose a range category and select components from that row.  (For example, you might choose a great CPU, but if you don't give it matching RAM, you've wasted money...)

http://pcpartpicker.com
This website allows you to create a build by selecting parts and it will tally up the costs.  There are also builds that people have put together (view the build guides), and if you see one you like, you have a shopping list right there.

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/
Be sure to read the rules first, but you can ask questions here, and you can even upload your build from pcpartpicker.com and ask for advice.  Helpful people will suggest ways to improve the build to meet your needs, save you money, etc.

As for actually building the PC, you can just Google "how to build a pc" or similar, and look through videos and pages.  There are many.

I hope this helps!


Bookmark.  Thank you very much.

Offline Taxcontrol

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Re: Who Really Built Your Computer?
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2016, 04:25:18 PM »
I build my own desktops from the ground up , laptops I buy broken ones off ebay and fix them.
both ways are cheaper than store bought.

I agree.  I told my wife that our kids should all go through the CompTIA A+ course.  For no reason other than building their own computer/laptop.  I find that depending on the build, it can save $1,000 or more from what is being sold at the store.  Since the kids will likely go through a computer about once every 8 years or so, it will save them quite a bit of money.  I see it as being similar to learning basic car repair back in the 50's.  Not everyone was going to be a grease monkey but they could at least avoid a few repair bills by keeping their car working.

Offline Taxcontrol

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Re: Who Really Built Your Computer?
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2016, 04:33:18 PM »
@ Dexter @Suppressed @montanajoe
I am going to look into it. My grandson is continually kicking me off mine to play games. Maybe it is a project we can do together.  I have an old pavilion.  Anybody got directions to a website or such to begin with? Be nice to do a gamer type build.

Depending on the Pavilion, it might be a good exercise to first upgrade the existing system.
If you want to go high end, you will likely need to replace the triad - Motherboard, CPU, power supply
Superfast multi core cpus can run into the thousands of $$.  You really don't need that much power for gaming.  Remember, Motherboard has to fit the case, CPU has to fit the motherboard, PS has to have enough watts to run the CPU and hardware, Motherboard slots need to support the CORRECT memory.  And lastly, get a higher end graphics card that fits into the slots on your motherboard.

CompTIA A+ study book is a good place to start learning. CompTIA A+ Certification All-in-One Exam Guide, Ninth Edition (Exams 220-901 & 220-902) - about $35

Offline montanajoe

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Re: Who Really Built Your Computer?
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2016, 04:35:08 PM »
Bookmark.  Thank you very much.

@bigheadfred

Agree all great sources, I also like Newegg.

Offline bigheadfred

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Re: Who Really Built Your Computer?
« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2016, 05:29:25 PM »
@bigheadfred

Agree all great sources, I also like Newegg.

I shop there.

Offline Suppressed

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Re: Who Really Built Your Computer?
« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2016, 01:21:09 PM »
@bigheadfred

Agree all great sources, I also like Newegg.

@montanajoe @bigheadfred @Taxcontrol

pcpartpicker.com (in my list) includes Newegg as one of the sites it checks for the lowest price on each component.  While they aren't as good as they used to be, I still use them fairly often.

I've been told this book is the gold standard, but I don't have it myself: https://www.amazon.com/Upgrading-Repairing-22nd-Scott-Mueller/dp/0789756102
« Last Edit: September 27, 2016, 01:27:03 PM by Suppressed »
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Offline bigheadfred

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Re: Who Really Built Your Computer?
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2016, 05:27:43 PM »
Depending on the Pavilion, it might be a good exercise to first upgrade the existing system.
If you want to go high end, you will likely need to replace the triad - Motherboard, CPU, power supply
Superfast multi core cpus can run into the thousands of $$.  You really don't need that much power for gaming.  Remember, Motherboard has to fit the case, CPU has to fit the motherboard, PS has to have enough watts to run the CPU and hardware, Motherboard slots need to support the CORRECT memory.  And lastly, get a higher end graphics card that fits into the slots on your motherboard.

CompTIA A+ study book is a good place to start learning. CompTIA A+ Certification All-in-One Exam Guide, Ninth Edition (Exams 220-901 & 220-902) - about $35

Thanks for the info.

Offline Oceander

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Re: Who Really Built Your Computer?
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2016, 06:51:25 PM »
Depending on the Pavilion, it might be a good exercise to first upgrade the existing system.
If you want to go high end, you will likely need to replace the triad - Motherboard, CPU, power supply
Superfast multi core cpus can run into the thousands of $$.  You really don't need that much power for gaming.  Remember, Motherboard has to fit the case, CPU has to fit the motherboard, PS has to have enough watts to run the CPU and hardware, Motherboard slots need to support the CORRECT memory.  And lastly, get a higher end graphics card that fits into the slots on your motherboard.

CompTIA A+ study book is a good place to start learning. CompTIA A+ Certification All-in-One Exam Guide, Ninth Edition (Exams 220-901 & 220-902) - about $35

The GPU is generally the crucial component for a gaming system.  A weak GPU will bottleneck the entire system.

Online DB

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Re: Who Really Built Your Computer?
« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2016, 09:10:08 PM »
The GPU is generally the crucial component for a gaming system.  A weak GPU will bottleneck the entire system.

And for those really serious about their gaming, the frame rate is the most important factor. Connecting a high performance GPU to a 60 Hz refresh rate LCD gets you little. The LCD response time and refresh rate is very important. In the CRT days you could get refresh rates of over 240 Hz and virtually no processing delay in the monitor (it was analog). LCDs are still catching up on that front.

Offline Suppressed

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Re: Who Really Built Your Computer?
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2016, 09:22:15 PM »
Thanks for the info.


@bigheadfred

I just came across this great video...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIF43-0mDk4&amp;t=1s" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIF43-0mDk4&amp;t=1s</a>


(If it doesn't start at the beginning, manually move the slider back and it will give you the menu of topics.)
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Offline Scutter

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Re: Who Really Built Your Computer?
« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2016, 10:01:14 PM »
I have some visibility into how Microsoft hardware products are made, and I have friends at other companies that sell hardware. MOST American hardware companies have Chinese or Taiwanese firms like this do the manufacturing. For example, Foxconn makes iPhones. It is very similar to the semiconductor industry where the fabrication machinery is so expensive that it just does not make sense for every company to have their own fab.

But that said, there is huge variability in the quality of the products made for different vendors by the same manufacturing/assembly firm. The really good ones have an engineering process that involves the vendor's engineers working closely with the manufacturer, including iterating on the manufacturing process, manufacturing artifacts, test jigs, QC process, etc. I am continually amazed at how much effort it takes to take something from PCB design to a working manufacturing process with reasonable yields.

So my point is, you can't draw any conclusions about the quality of the product based on which of these firms manufactured it. It may be good; it may be crap. Pay more attention to the vendor, their history, and reviews of the specific product you are buying.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 10:05:12 PM by Scutter »

Offline Oceander

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Re: Who Really Built Your Computer?
« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2016, 10:52:14 PM »
I have some visibility into how Microsoft hardware products are made, and I have friends at other companies that sell hardware. MOST American hardware companies have Chinese or Taiwanese firms like this do the manufacturing. For example, Foxconn makes iPhones. It is very similar to the semiconductor industry where the fabrication machinery is so expensive that it just does not make sense for every company to have their own fab.

But that said, there is huge variability in the quality of the products made for different vendors by the same manufacturing/assembly firm. The really good ones have an engineering process that involves the vendor's engineers working closely with the manufacturer, including iterating on the manufacturing process, manufacturing artifacts, test jigs, QC process, etc. I am continually amazed at how much effort it takes to take something from PCB design to a working manufacturing process with reasonable yields.

So my point is, you can't draw any conclusions about the quality of the product based on which of these firms manufactured it. It may be good; it may be crap. Pay more attention to the vendor, their history, and reviews of the specific product you are buying.

I agree.  I think one of the points with the issue is how much the brand name you're paying for is worth.  For example, I would assume that a brand company that wishes to keep a reputation for good quality will require its ODMs to use greater quality control, which in turn benefits the consumer.  On the other hand, particularly for lower end systems, the brand company may not care that much.  I've seen that with HP, having bought a number of their systems: the $1,000 plus systems tend to have good quality; the $500 systems not so much. 

Then, where the ODM also sells under its own name, you need a different way of gauging the degree of quality control it puts into those products.  For that word of mouth and good relations with one of the resellers who buy these systems (sometimes to rebrand, sometimes not) is imperative.  Many years ago I was an avid member of the forums on notebookreview.com and there were a couple of the established resellers who really knew their sh*t.  Of course, the flip side is that post-purchase technical support and warranty service could be dodgy.  You need to have some DIY ability with those systems.   

Offline Scutter

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Re: Who Really Built Your Computer?
« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2016, 11:10:20 AM »
I agree.  I think one of the points with the issue is how much the brand name you're paying for is worth.  For example, I would assume that a brand company that wishes to keep a reputation for good quality will require its ODMs to use greater quality control, which in turn benefits the consumer.  On the other hand, particularly for lower end systems, the brand company may not care that much.  I've seen that with HP, having bought a number of their systems: the $1,000 plus systems tend to have good quality; the $500 systems not so much. 

Then, where the ODM also sells under its own name, you need a different way of gauging the degree of quality control it puts into those products.  For that word of mouth and good relations with one of the resellers who buy these systems (sometimes to rebrand, sometimes not) is imperative.  Many years ago I was an avid member of the forums on notebookreview.com and there were a couple of the established resellers who really knew their sh*t.  Of course, the flip side is that post-purchase technical support and warranty service could be dodgy.  You need to have some DIY ability with those systems.

@Oceander

I completely agree. I guess a good way to look at it is that your primary decision is how much quality control and post-sales support are worth to you. I always build my own workstations, but even there, it's a consideration in what I buy. For example, I always buy G.Skill RAM because I have had a great experience with them, including their replacing bad RAM that was 5+ years old. In other situations, I may knowingly buy from a company that has hideously bad support if there is some feature of the product that outweighs that consideration (Samsung and Asus come to mind).

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Who Really Built Your Computer?
« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2016, 12:18:24 PM »
Bookmark.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Who Really Built Your Computer?
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2016, 05:09:28 PM »
Quote from: Suppressed link=topic=225567.msg1151490#msg1151490 date=1479954135
I just came across this great video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIF43-0mDk4&t=1s
[/quote

@Suppressed , yes it is a good vid, BUT, those are some pretty big-dog boxen they are constructing... gamer-level stuff... @bigheadfred should know that these represent high-end product, and there are cheaper, less expensive means...


Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Who Really Built Your Computer?
« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2016, 12:59:16 AM »
Who is the father?
I think the question the tabloids would be asking is "Whose chest hair did he get?"
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!

And I looked, and rose up, and said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the rest of the people, Be not ye afraid of them: remember the Lord, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses. Nehemiah 4:14 (KJV)

Well, here we go! Hang on kiddies, it could be one heckuva ride!

Offline ConstitutionRose

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Re: Who Really Built Your Computer?
« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2016, 07:49:09 AM »
Repairing laptops is tricky, but building a desktop is simple. For those that don't know you can typically build a computer for half the price you would have paid off the shelf. There are endless resources out there to learn how. You can find step by step guides. Once you get the hang of it you will feel silly for getting ripped off on every computer you've ever owned.

I'm with you.  Hubby, children and I build our own desktops.  I purely hate working on laptops and won't do it even for clients.  For business purposes, I believe you buy the best machine you can from the vendor with the biggest footprint in your area and spend a little extra for the best warranty they offer.  Computer down time costs small businesses way more than just the cash out lays, so it makes sense to minimize them.

Just FYI.  You get a lot better customer support if you purchase from vendors as a business as opposed to retail and if you buy the good warranties.  Different phone numbers, different class of support personnel.  Buy directly from the vendor because Best Buy is not going to provide you with a 5 year 24/7 next business day warranty.  You'll only get that from the vendor.
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Offline Oceander

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Re: Who Really Built Your Computer?
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2016, 10:40:50 AM »
I'm with you.  Hubby, children and I build our own desktops.  I purely hate working on laptops and won't do it even for clients.  For business purposes, I believe you buy the best machine you can from the vendor with the biggest footprint in your area and spend a little extra for the best warranty they offer.  Computer down time costs small businesses way more than just the cash out lays, so it makes sense to minimize them.

Just FYI.  You get a lot better customer support if you purchase from vendors as a business as opposed to retail and if you buy the good warranties.  Different phone numbers, different class of support personnel.  Buy directly from the vendor because Best Buy is not going to provide you with a 5 year 24/7 next business day warranty.  You'll only get that from the vendor.

I must be a glutton for punishment, then, because I've worked on fixing three laptops.  My first was an old Sony that I took apart so many times I could have swapped out the hard drive and the wireless card with my eyes closed.  It is a pain, I'll give you that. 

Offline ConstitutionRose

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Re: Who Really Built Your Computer?
« Reply #44 on: November 29, 2016, 08:30:56 AM »
I must be a glutton for punishment, then, because I've worked on fixing three laptops.  My first was an old Sony that I took apart so many times I could have swapped out the hard drive and the wireless card with my eyes closed.  It is a pain, I'll give you that.

LOL.  You ARE a glutton for punishment.  Our business is providing IT services for small and medium businesses.  My time costs our clients more than a depot repair for a laptop.  I might swap memory or a hard drive, but I take a look at it first to determine the time element.  One of the reasons, I insist on good warranties.  Hardware is not something you should have to worry sbout.

Hubby and son are constantly swapping out components on the desktops.  My laptop is 7 years old and still perfectly functional.  I won't let them touch it.  When I need a new laptop, I'll get one.  Until then they should not touch!
“The very essence of a free government, consists in considering offices as public trusts, bestowed for the good of the country, and not for the benefit of an individual or a party.”  John C.  Calhoun

Offline Oceander

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Re: Who Really Built Your Computer?
« Reply #45 on: November 29, 2016, 09:57:18 AM »
LOL.  You ARE a glutton for punishment.  Our business is providing IT services for small and medium businesses.  My time costs our clients more than a depot repair for a laptop.  I might swap memory or a hard drive, but I take a look at it first to determine the time element.  One of the reasons, I insist on good warranties.  Hardware is not something you should have to worry sbout.

Hubby and son are constantly swapping out components on the desktops.  My laptop is 7 years old and still perfectly functional.  I won't let them touch it.  When I need a new laptop, I'll get one.  Until then they should not touch!

It was for my own systems.  I would not have paid somebody to fix those systems - in fact, the first time I cracked open my old Sony was to replace the hard drive - and so it makes eminent good sense that a business would not try to make money doing it.

Offline Joe Wooten

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Re: Who Really Built Your Computer?
« Reply #46 on: November 29, 2016, 10:42:55 AM »

Offline Restored

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Re: Who Really Built Your Computer?
« Reply #47 on: November 29, 2016, 11:09:38 AM »
Replacing the Motherboard usually means replacing the RAM. And a new Windows install. Just build a machine from the ground up and toss the old one.
Hahahahaha....No seriously. Who is the President?

Offline Oceander

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Re: Who Really Built Your Computer?
« Reply #48 on: November 29, 2016, 11:12:55 AM »
Replacing the Motherboard usually means replacing the RAM. And a new Windows install. Just build a machine from the ground up and toss the old one.

Did a motherboard swap on two systems that involved moving the CPU from the old to the new, one on a desktop and the other on a laptop. 

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Who Really Built Your Computer?
« Reply #49 on: November 29, 2016, 02:19:52 PM »
When I need a new laptop, I'll get one.  Until then they should not touch!

Almost right - I fix em for a living too... When I shop laptops for myself or my clients, I am looking for bang-for-buck... Usually worrying about processor more than any other thing... then over time, jack it up with a hdd, more ram... Also it is generally true that a laptop can benefit from a wireless card swap, once in it's life...

The one I am on now is about at it's usable end - It was cheap in it's day - around $450 on black friday sale... since then it has gone through 2 hdd replacements - the first to give me more room over the small one it came with, the second to convert it to SSD... It has had two replacement wireless NICs - one replaced the damaged original 'N', the second to upgrade to ac. And I have jacked the ram to it's ceiling. It's also been disassembled twice, down to the CPU cooler for a blow-out, and had numerous replacement keyboards (I am THE keyboard murderer of all time), and maybe a glidepad or two.

That sounds like a lot of service, but really, with the exception of the tear-downs to blow it out, the rest is easy access through panels or removal of a piece or two...

As a rule, I can service a laptop just as easily as a desktop - hardware R&R is doable to a point. It is rare to do major surgery on one, just simply because the numbers don't add up - replacing a MB is exceedingly rare - the cost of the part, plus all the time necessary to put it in will usually exceed the value of the machine. However, on a top-flight laptop, sometimes even that is cheaper than machine replacement...

So I would say panel-accessible parts are common replacements. Generally, folks will suffer a hdd replacement rather than buy a new machine... Keyboard replacement is common and usually cheap. But if you've got to go scuba-diving in there, the price of disassembly/assembly along with the price of the part, is generally prohibitive.


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