A lot of conservative pundits have hitched their stars to Donald Trump. What if he loses?

[musiclady]

Even the majority of people who cast a vote for Trump seem to think he is scum. I wonder how their audiences will judge them? Harshly I would hope. They can no longer claim any mantle of conservatism, so what appeal do they have once this race is over?

I suppose turncoats have appeal to someone, somewhere.   

Just not to people who actually ARE Conservative, and believe that Conservatism is the only solution to the mess we're in.

I'm sure they won't talk much about it, but they have to have lost a large part of their audience.

[geronl]

and the respect of that audience.

How can anyone who embraced Trump wholeheartedly as messiah go back to being pro-life, pro-liberty, pro-constitution as if they hadn't abandoned it for a charlatan?

They should check out Robert Tilton, who followed the false messiah of money instead of Jesus.

[Emjay]

I think Trump dumped Sarah after that first disastrous speech.  He can't say so publicly.  I wonder what he promised her.

[Emjay]

First of all, Preibus should have been canned the day after Romney lost.   If I ran the RNC, I would select a committee of five people.  Anybody who wants to run for President, would go up in front of this committee and state their case for running.   The committee will then select the best three, and that will be your GOP candidates,  no more than that.  And those three should cross the political range, one Right candidate, one Center-Right, and the other one, even closer to the Center.  From there, they can debate until the cows come home.  But no more of these ridiculous debates with 10+ people.

That's not the worst idea I've ever heard ...  but it's close.  Why not just appoint a president.

[musiclady]

and the respect of that audience.

How can anyone who embraced Trump wholeheartedly as messiah go back to being pro-life, pro-liberty, pro-constitution as if they hadn't abandoned it for a charlatan?

They should check out Robert Tilton, who followed the false messiah of money instead of Jesus.

Simple answer.  They can't.

[Sanguine]

I believe the same thing is true of Trump.

He has no principles.  He has no ethics.  He has no knowledge of the Constitution.

There is little to no possibility that he will do anything better than Clinton will do.

Some of us, me included, have accused Trumpers of being fact free. Given that, we have an obligation to make sure our arguments are not.

So, let's look at the facts, what do we know about HRC and DT that would have some bearing on our decisions as to their characters and future actions?

They are about the same age, grew up in the same America. 

DT went to Wharton and then into business.  HRC went to Wellsley and Yale and then went into law and government.  She wrote her thesis on Saul Alinsky and appears to have established a close relationship with over their shared interest in subverting and overturning the government of the United States, to the point that I have seen her referred to as "Alinsky's daughter".  DT bought and sold properties and promoted the Trump name.  DT appears to not have an established ideology.

HRC was on the impeachment inquiry staff for Watergate, and according to her then-boss was fired for lying.  Apparently DT was buying, selling, promoting, marrying and fathering during this time.

HRC also married and according to one of her husband's long-term lovers, chose to have abortions during this time and had her one child as a political calculation.

DT - ran around on wife #1 and married wife #2 even though he was "bored with her".  Established some successful businesses, declared business bankruptcies 4 times.  Became a reality TV show star. Married a Slovenian model and has thus far managed to remain married.

HRC during the same time period:  Whitewater...Vince Foster...Tyson Chicken....cattle futures....Travelgate...FBI gate....Benghazi...Juanita Broaderick and many others...Monica's War...Loral...Ron Brown...innumerable dead people...IRS abuses....Libya....Syria....Chinese fund-raisers and bundlers...Muslim Brotherhood...Clinton Foundation pay for play...and on and on and on.

Hmmm.  Neither one of them qualified to be president, in my opinion.  But, equivalent?  I just can't see it. 

[Norm Lenhart]

How do you propose to 'start fixing it now'?  By handing control, willingly, over to the Democrats in Congress?  We already know how bad they were, are and would be again.  Much worse than the GOP RINOs have been, even.  I just don't see the logic.  Sorry.

You start by doing what we should have done all along. Voting for what we actually believe in as conservtives.

I don't care what excuse you (the general 'you') come up with. you can rehash the same fearmongering 'The dem is the devil' rethoric till the moon turns to cheese. It does not in any way change the simple F A C T that you will NEVER stop liberalism until you stop electing liberals. If you (the general you, remember) want to make the arguement that 'this time is world ending' then I put to you that every election to date someone says that and every election to date someone says 'next time but not today.'

Today is all there is. Had people lestened to people saying the things I say 10 freaking years ago instead of fear voting, the Dem Party would be competing with the Green Party for the barking moonbat vote. Instead, they made excuses, fear voted and created the world we live in today. You did it before. I did it before. We all did itbefore. The difference is some learned the lessons of their history and some choose to dream of magic dust and unicorns.

Either you vote for what you believe in or you don't. A child knows that if he asks for Chocolate ice cream, he isn't going to get steak and caviar instead.

[geronl]

I think Trump dumped Sarah after that first disastrous speech.  He can't say so publicly.  I wonder what he promised her.

She made other speeches for him too. Remember when Todd got injured and she still popped in to speak before flying to see her injured husband?

Sometime during the later primary she was less and less prominent and of course did not go to the convention.

[musiclady]

Some of us, me included, have accused Trumpers of being fact free. Given that, we have an obligation to make sure our arguments are not.

So, let's look at the facts, what do we know about HRC and DT that would have some bearing on our decisions as to their characters and future actions?

They are about the same age, grew up in the same America. 

DT went to Wharton and then into business.  HRC went to Wellsley and Yale and then went into law and government.  She wrote her thesis on Saul Alinsky and appears to have established a close relationship with over their shared interest in subverting and overturning the government of the United States, to the point that I have seen her referred to as "Alinsky's daughter".  DT bought and sold properties and promoted the Trump name.  DT appears to not have an established ideology.

HRC was on the impeachment inquiry staff for Watergate, and according to her then-boss was fired for lying.  Apparently DT was buying, selling, promoting, marrying and fathering during this time.

HRC also married and according to one of her husband's long-term lovers, chose to have abortions during this time and had her one child as a political calculation.

DT - ran around on wife #1 and married wife #2 even though he was "bored with her".  Established some successful businesses, declared business bankruptcies 4 times.  Became a reality TV show star. Married a Slovenian model and has thus far managed to remain married.

HRC during the same time period:  Whitewater...Vince Foster...Tyson Chicken....cattle futures....Travelgate...FBI gate....Benghazi...Juanita Broaderick and many others...Monica's War...Loral...Ron Brown...innumerable dead people...IRS abuses....Libya....Syria....Chinese fund-raisers and bundlers...Muslim Brotherhood...Clinton Foundation pay for play...and on and on and on.

Hmmm.  Neither one of them qualified to be president, in my opinion.  But, equivalent?  I just can't see it.

I know the facts about Hillary Clinton.

That's why it's so significant that many of us who are thinking, educated people do not see a qualitative difference between the two.

No matter how bad Clinton is, there is no empirical evidence that Trump will do anything different.  He has the same political views and lack of ethics.

The bottom line for me is that neither deserves my vote.  Neither will represent my views, nor my ethics at all.  Not Clinton.  Not Trump.

I appreciate your making the effort to try to convince me that Trump won't be as bad, but you haven't provided any new information with which I am convinced to change my mind.

I'm sorry.  I respect you completely.  But I respectfully disagree with your conclusion.   I also respect your right to reluctantly vote for a candidate who doesn't represent you in the least, so that Hillary doesn't win.  I just can't agree with that decision.

And I've thought about it more than you may know.  My conscience just won't allow it.

[Sanguine]

I know the facts about Hillary Clinton.

That's why it's so significant that many of us who are thinking, educated people do not see a qualitative difference between the two.

No matter how bad Clinton is, there is no empirical evidence that Trump will do anything different.  He has the same political views and lack of ethics.

The bottom line for me is that neither deserves my vote.  Neither will represent my views, nor my ethics at all.  Not Clinton.  Not Trump.

I appreciate your making the effort to try to convince me that Trump won't be as bad, but you haven't provided any new information with which I am convinced to change my mind.

I'm sorry.  I respect you completely.  But I respectfully disagree with your conclusion.   I also respect your right to reluctantly vote for a candidate who doesn't represent you in the least, so that Hillary doesn't win.  I just can't agree with that decision.

And I've thought about it more than you may know.  My conscience just won't allow it.

OK, MusicLady.  We've communicated clearly and respectfully, and that means a lot. 

God help us, regardless of which way this shakes out.

[musiclady]

OK, MusicLady.  We've communicated clearly and respectfully, and that means a lot. 

God help us, regardless of which way this shakes out.

Amen and AMEN!!  It should never have come to this.    

[roamer_1]

I wasn't aware of that particular Sean BS, but he was already 'dead to me' due to his constant fawning over and paving the way for The Don.  It figures that he also has become unethical and underhanded though....now that he's hanging with and stumping for Trump.

He's been dead to me (for all intensive porpoises) since the McCain campaign, as has FOX, and talk radio generally. Since the Romney campaign I haven't listened at all, to any of it... To the degree that I have eschewed CableTV, and put my radio back to a country music station.

Now I get *all* my content (with the exception of music and local news on the radio) from the internet - I simply bought an old Vista era computer with HDMI and Blu-Ray DVD for $25, installed a wireless N USB dongle, and added a wireless keyboard. My TV is now just a monster computer monitor. Now my media is served in a true ala-carte fashion, and I couldn't be happier.

You can't imagine the difference in my blood pressure.
And I might add, part and parcel with that: I have had to view very, very little of Trump. It is worth it, if for no other reason, just for that.

[geronl]

How does someone who preaches "borders, language, culture" for years flip on a dime and start saying "well, we need someone to mow the lawn and sweep the floor..." and expect to have any credibility left? These people obviously have zero shame.

[Vulcan]

I removed Fox News from my channel lineup back in 2004 when I heard Bill O'Reilly, a man who never served a day in the military, say combat veterans (the Swift Boat Vets) had no right to be heard.  A man who never served a single day in the military yet is all over the media said those who fought and bled for this country have no right to be heard?  FUBO.

I find Hannity as annoying to listen to as Hillary. 
 

[geronl]

My TV is now just a monster computer monitor. Now my media is served in a true ala-carte fashion, and I couldn't be happier.

I like watching Asian drama on my laptop. Who needs TV?

[dfwgator]

I like watching Asian drama on my laptop. Who needs TV?

Me too.   Are you watching "W"?   IMHO it's the best KDrama I've seen. 

[geronl]

Me too.   Are you watching "W"?   IMHO it's the best KDrama I've seen.

I just finished "Doctors" with Park Shin-hye and am still slogging through with "Monster". I have decided to suspend my watching of the Chinese "Ice Fantasy" for now and am about to start "W" and maybe "Uncontrollably Fond" although it seems run of the mill after one episode.

[HonestJohn]

A Reagan-Kemp conservative who regurgitates tired liberal rhetoric that Republicans are racist xenophobes? You know very well that this is part of the Democrat playbook every year, and it isn't Trump specific. Not sure who you supported for nominee, but those same labels were applied to the forum darling Ted Cruz as well whose immigration policies such as patrolling Muslim neighborhoods were seen as even MORE draconian than Trump's.

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

---

We had a problem with bigots in the GOP.  Buckley drove them out.

Now the same people Buckley unceremoniously booted from the GOP have wormed themselves back in.

Buchanon is a perfect example.

[HonestJohn]

That's the point, genius.   Republicans are NOT racist xenophobes,  and that's why I fight as I must against Trumpism.   Trumpism isn't Republicanism, it isn't conservatism, it's a vile caricature that makes decent, principled conservatives look bad.

I want the alt-right dead and buried as a political force going forward, precisely so that conservatives can restore themselves to a position of respect in this nation.  We look like fools supporting this vile and unprincipled media creation for President - which is why I say that those who've bent over to accommodate Trump can and must be forever tainted.

In the sixties, Buckley cast out the racialists from the respectable conservative movement,  and it's time to clean the filthy stables again.       

You beat me too it.  And said it much better, too.

[Jazzhead]

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

---

We had a problem with bigots in the GOP.  Buckley drove them out.

Now the same people Buckley unceremoniously booted from the GOP have wormed themselves back in.

Buchanon is a perfect example.

You know your history well, HJ.   And this is why I want Trump to lose in a landslide.  To cleanse and make the political landscape conducive for conservatives again.   

[HonestJohn]

They will wear orange dots on their foreheads and worshipful celebrate the high holy Trump days.

And offer their virgin daughters for the Orange One's prima nochta rights.

[roamer_1]

I like watching Asian drama on my laptop. Who needs TV?

Haven't ventured there - Most everything that is on TV is available online, one way or another - My biggest problem now is series binging - Just finished Fringe (2008)... Five seasons worth in about a couple weeks... It's hard to stop between episodes because they always end with a cliffhanger, and since the next episode is immediately available...

But it's all out there, to include new series episodes and movies...

[HonestJohn]

Really, @geronl?  You really think he's worse than that fine example of womanhood, Hillary Clinton?  The one who has scandal after scandal at the taxpayer's expense, Loral, Whitewater, State Department pay-for-play, rent-out-the-Lincoln Bedroom to the highest bidder, fired from Watergate, Servergate, etc., and has a long trail of dead bodies all closely related to her?  The person most directly responsible for Benghazi, and maybe Libya?  The one who proudly employs a Muslim Brotherhood operator as her confidant and main squeeze?  Donald Trump is a piker compared to Hillary!

Who paid for that?  Trump donations, for one...

[HonestJohn]

Completely disagree.

The problem was not with the quality of the field, but with the quantity.  There were a number of reasonable prospects, some very strong.......... the strongest field, in fact that we have had in a very long time.

It's just that the rational, conservative vote was subdivided, while the angry, non-thinking vote gravitated toward Trump.

And it's not that he "may be a poor candidate."  He is the absolutely worst candidate in our entire lifetimes.

That's why so many conservatives can't vote for him.  He has no integrity nor virtue and he has no conservative policy positions.

I'd agree with that.  I think that nearly all of the GOP voters could have stomached any of the other candidates.  That's not to say that many would have been pleased if Jeb Bush (for example) had taken it... but GOP voters could have taken a deep breath, sighed, and said, "I can vote for him in November."

[HonestJohn]

Disagree.  Trump won because of the convoluted primary season which should be reformed immediately..  Most people were against Trump even in the early primaries.  But with 17 candidates, his opposition was divided and diluted.  Trump might have been the only candidate a lot of people have ever heard of.  He still lost almost 2/3 of the vote in the early primaries.  Ted Cruz was a virtual unknown to most people outside of Texas at that point.

The Media elected Trump because every word he spoke was broadcast nationally.  He had an early appeal that even I felt because it was refreshing to hear someone so unabashedly politically incorrect.  Thinking people immediately realized the downside of Trump.  The way, way downside.

Without his name recognition and the free ads by the press, Trump would never have won.

The GOP needs to seriously vet candidates (for GOP bona fides) and establish a maximum quota per Presidential election cycle.  (I'd like to say conservative bona fides, but we're talking about a political party, not an ideology)