Author Topic: Scientists find likely cause of 2011 Virginia earthquake, believe there may be more to come  (Read 2268 times)

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Scientists find likely cause of 2011 Virginia earthquake, believe there may be more to come

By Michael Kuhne, AccuWeather.com Staff Writer
August 19, 2016; 12:21 AM ET

http://www.accuweather.com/en/features/trend/scientists_find_likely_cause_of_virginia_dc_earthquake_2011_more_to_come/59531632
On Aug. 23, 2011, those living in eastern North America, from Ontario to Georgia, felt an unexpected shock as the earth trembled in the wake of a 5.8 magnitude earthquake that struck near the town of Mineral, Virginia, around 2 p.m. local time.

A notable quake with a magnitude of 4.0 or higher east of the Rockies is a rarity, according to USGS reports.

However, a recent study published in the Journal of Geophysical Research - Solid Earth is shedding light on the likely causes behind the event and may indicate that there are more to come.
Excerpt: More at the link:
http://www.accuweather.com/en/features/trend/scientists_find_likely_cause_of_virginia_dc_earthquake_2011_more_to_come/59531632
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

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C S Lewis

Offline Crazieman

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The entire study is false.  There's no fracking reference.

That is what we're told in Oklahoma/Kansas.  We have hordes of believing Borg Drones that will recite on command Earthquake=Fracking.
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Oceander

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I'm not sure if accuweather is the most reliable of sources, even for weather info.

Offline mirraflake

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Fracking when done wrong does cause quakes.  Charts have been posted when fracking starts mini quakes erupt all over the area surrounding the well.

The quakes Youngstown Ohio experienced  a few years ago was caused by a company fracking with too high of pressures and volume. The fracking company admitted they caused the quakes and went in and removed some of the fracking fluids to cut down the pressure and the quakes stopped.

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« Last Edit: August 19, 2016, 12:10:09 pm by mirraflake »

Oceander

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Fracking when done wrong does cause quakes.  Charts have been posted when fracking starts mini quakes erupt all over the area surrounding the well.

The quakes Youngstown Ohio experienced  a few years ago was caused by a company fracking with too high of pressures and volume. The fracking company admitted they caused the quakes and went in and removed some of the fracking fluids to cut down the pressure and the quakes stopped.

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Of what magnitude?  Many things can cause the ground to shake, including heavy construction equipment.  I wouldn't call the shaking a huge truck makes an earthquake.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Fracking when done wrong does cause quakes.  Charts have been posted when fracking starts mini quakes erupt all over the area surrounding the well.

The quakes Youngstown Ohio experienced  a few years ago was caused by a company fracking with too high of pressures and volume. The fracking company admitted they caused the quakes and went in and removed some of the fracking fluids to cut down the pressure and the quakes stopped.

@Crazieman

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Are you sure you don't have injection (disposal) wells confused with fracking?

Fracking is a short term pressure increase for the purpose of fracturing the reservoir rock to increase production. Inevitably, the removal of fluids and decrease of pressure occurs, because the objective is to enhance the ability to remove fluids (oil and gas) from the reservoir in the first place.

Injection/disposal wells are for the disposal of fluids, not necessarily produced water from oil and gas wells (including 'flowback' frac fluids) but other industrial wastes as well.  These wells are intended to receive fluids, but not produce them. Pressure will increase in those rock layers where the fluids are injected, but that injection is most often done by gravity feed. The hydrostatic pressure exerted by the fluid in the wellbore is higher than the pressure of the fluid present in a porous rock formation which serves as a reservoir for the disposed fluid, so the fluid in the wellbore goes into the rock. As the fluid level drops in the wellbore, more fluid is added, which raises the hydrostatic pressure in the wellbore, lather rinse, repeat.
Smaller earthquakes have been associated with injection wells in the Anadarko Basin along the KS/OK border, and there may be other isolated instances.
Consider that the geology of an area greatly affects potential for seismic activity. In North Dakota we have had over 10,000 wells hydraulically fractured, have quite a few newer and active disposal wells for the disposal of production water in just the past 10 years, and that isn't counting the oil and gas and disposal wells going back to the early 1950s. No earthquakes.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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The entire study is false.  There's no fracking reference.

That is what we're told in Oklahoma/Kansas.  We have hordes of believing Borg Drones that will recite on command Earthquake=Fracking.
(No global warming reference, either.)

The Borg Drones have their frac jobs confused with injection wells.

The Youngstown, Ohio quakes were caused by wastewater injection wells, not fracking itself, but the disposal of produced water from wells that had been hydraulically fractured. Oil and gas production has produced water associated with the oil and gas. That water is commonly disposed of in wastewater injection wells, and, depending on where those wells are sited, there can be problems with injecting the wastewater from dozens of wells at one site. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/04/youngstown-ohio-earthquakes-wastewater_n_3869286.htmlThese aren't the sort of rocks you'd frac.

I had an Igneous and Metamorphic Petrology professor who predicted the discovery of stratified rock in the crystalline piedmont of the Appalachians before seismic studies confirmed it. (not counting the Triassic rift basins). Considering the Catoctin meta basalt may have been obducted onto the craton and not just rift associated, the model makes sense, as does the idea of spalling at the craton/lithosphere interface.  Keep in mind that this part of the continental plate was fused to the core of the continent during the collision of plates estimated to have occurred some 200 million years ago. While maps and diagrams on a large scale present such boundaries as smooth and pretty, in nature, things tend to have more ragged edges until erosion smooths them out.

back to fracking:

Current fracs in this area (WIlliston Basin, Bakken/Three Forks) are on a 1280 acre lease, multistage, and involve about 3.5 million gallons of frac fluid. That seems like a lot, only consider there are 325,829 gallons in an acre foot (one foot of water covering one acre), roughly 10.7 acre feet (3.5 million gallons) of fluid spread over 1280 acres is only one tenth of an inch. Even allowing that the frac won't distribute over the full 1280 acres and the area will likely be more on the order of 320 acres of actual areal distribution, the whole amount of fluid injected amounts to less than a half inch were it laying on the surface. (four tenths of an inch, to be more precise, and some of that fluid will be entering porosity already present in the rock so the vertical displacement will be even less than .4 inches if distributed over the entire acreage). Not the sort of displacement noticeable earthquakes come from.


By contrast, the Boxing Day earthquake (9.1) in Indonesia involved ten meters (32.5 feet) of vertical displacement.

Injection wells, however, are for the disposal of water and other fluids, and although these fluids are being placed in a porous rock layer (a mapable layer of rock with distinct characteristics is commonly referred to by geologists as a "formation") they will stay there, ideally, and the pressure increase near the wellbore as fluids are injected equalizes in the disposal formation as the fluid moves into the rock. If the fluid is injected too rapidly for that pressure to equalize, there will be some slight vertical displacement.  If that formation is intersected by a fault, that fluid can lubricate (for want of a better term) the existing fault and release stress along the fault. There has been an association with injection wells and smaller quakes in just a few places (OK/KS border) because that depends on the geology in the area where the injection well is sited. In a multitude of other locations seismic disturbances related to disposal (injection) wells have been absent or unmeasurably small (ND, MT, WY).

There does not have to be vertical displacement along a fault to have an earthquake, as strike/slip faults have primarily horizontal motion and lateral displacement. For instance, there was a magnitude 8.1 earthquake in the Macquarie Islands three days from the Boxing Day earthquake, but the Macquarie Ridge earthquake caused no noticeable tsunami because it was a strike/slip fault and there was no vertical displacement, and no movement of seawater to cause a tsunami.

You can read panic inducing articles like this one:https://www.rt.com/usa/fracking-earthquake-virginia-dc-817-061/ which completely fails to take into account things like the discontinuity of folded and eroded sedimentary rock layers from the West Virginia border to the igneous and metamorphic rock underlying the Mineral, Va, area, and they will induce fear of far reaching effects of a frac job which simply do not and cannot exist.

Other earthquakes have been noted in Virginia, http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/states/virginia/history.php and I have seen evidence of past seismic activity in broken speleothems in caves in the Gathright valley area (now Lake Moomaw) in Alleghany County, Va. The breaks were old, as new stalactite growth had occurred on the stubs. Keep in mind, though, that the source of this damage is likely from earthquakes which had their epicenters in Giles County. (The largest recorded earthquake in Va occurred there in 1897 http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/states/?region=Virginia

More information on the Geology of the piedmont region in Virginia and the 2011 earthquake here: https://dmme.virginia.gov/DGMR/earthquake2011.shtml

How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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I'm not sure if accuweather is the most reliable of sources, even for weather info.
It seems a pretty credible hypothesis, actually (you publish where you can). Knowledge, like gold or oil, is where you  find it. (see my post above)
« Last Edit: August 19, 2016, 08:51:33 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Wingnut

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I'm not sure if accuweather is the most reliable of sources, even for weather info.

That is the Gods Honest Truth!   The whole site is a propaganda arm for nut jobs and tin foil hat wearing Tree hugging wingnuts.


Offline truth_seeker

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California had a lot of earthquakes long before any fracking, and has been fracking for decades.

No report that I have seen of a hypohisis that fracking has increased so called "earthquakes."

I have  20 years experience in energy, including field supervision of "fracking" in the late 60s/early 70s. I live very close to the Newport/Inglewood Fault, source of the 1933 Long Beach Earthquake.

Coordinates: 33.63°N 118.0°W

Generally, manmade activity is tiny, compared to the earth's own forces which result in real earthquakes. Plate Techtonics

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Smokin Joe

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I'm not sure if accuweather is the most reliable of sources, even for weather info.
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Fracking is a red herring on this thread. I just got sidetracked to explain the difference between fracking and disposal wells. The media don't generally know the difference between Fracking and drilling, between a frac job and a disposal well, and a hole in the ground and their fundament.

Here is the abstract of the paper the Accuweather article is based on
Journal of Geophysical Research.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2015JB012698/abstract

Something a little more credible for those who don't like an article on a weather site.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Suppressed

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@Wingnut @truth_seeker
Fracking is a red herring on this thread. I just got sidetracked to explain the difference between fracking and disposal wells. The media don't generally know the difference between Fracking and drilling, between a frac job and a disposal well, and a hole in the ground and their fundament.

Here is the abstract of the paper the Accuweather article is based on
Journal of Geophysical Research.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2015JB012698/abstract

The association with fracking is real, because injection is often used as the disposal method for flowback fluids.

As for the JGR paper, I'm now going to attribute many things to "lithospheric foundering".

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Offline Smokin Joe

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The association with fracking is real, because injection is often used as the disposal method for flowback fluids.

As for the JGR paper, I'm now going to attribute many things to "lithospheric foundering".
Lithospheric foundering will only work on a relatively recent continental margin, although who knows about the New Madrid earthquake, maybe a chunk of the pre-Grenville Orogeny craton took a dive into the Mantle.

Fracking doesn't cause the earthquakes, though.
In fact, injection of wastewater doesn't necessarily cause earthquakes either. (Otherwise, North Dakota would put California and Japan to shame).
The one consistent association with earthquakes are faults.
Disposal (AKA Wastewater Injection) wells have been shown to cause increases in fluid pressure along faults and effectively lubricate them, reducing stress in the system by allowing movement at a lower stress threshold than that movement would occur at if the system remained 'dry'. While that is unsettling, and at a minimum may be inconvenient, consider that stresses built up along the same faults will eventually release, and the more stress (the higher the threshold for movement), the more severe the resultant earthquake. Releasing that stress at a lower threshold may actually be of benefit in the long run, although that is little consolation for someone mourning the good china or other damage.

With disposal wells, volume and the rate of disposal may be the critical factors in determining whether that lubrication occurs, if a fault is present. If no fault is present, the fluid will go into the existing porosity in the target rock layer with little fuss, and a modest increase in pore pressure which will equalize over a much larger area will result.
With fraccing, if the flowback water could be treated and re-used, that would reduce the disposal volumes, which might be a workable alternative in faulted areas. You are still going to get salt water with oil, even in systems with a high oil:water ratio, so there will still be a need to dispose of that (produced) salt water.
Ultimately, though the problem is a disposal problem, otherwise, we could run back up the food chain and blame car manufacturers and Tupperware for the oil we use (fuels and plastics), that was drilled in response to that need, that led to drilling and hydraulic fracturing wells, etc.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis