How Will Conservatism Advance with 20 Million Illegals Made Democrat Voters?

[Liberty Tree Dr]

For serious discussion, please (really, pretty please):

I would like to understand from the principled #NeverTrump members their post-2016 action plan to bring Conservatism back from the brink if/once Hillary is elected and implements her plan amnesty plan that grants citizenship to tens of millions of illegals.  Let's assume these new Americans will vote as other new Americans tend to do, in the 80/20 or even 90/10 ratio for Democrats.  That means for every Republican/Right voter, Hillary mints 4 or 5 Democrat voters.  These voters would sew up Florida and a couple other southern States, and even threaten Texas.

So, if this comes to pass, please outline with as much detail and reason as you can muster the path that takes us away from Venezuelan-style banana republic and back to the Reagan vision.  Please avoid magical thinking, and I will stipulate that the Second Coming might occur anytime to make this argument moot. 

Once more into the breach, @don-o ...

[don-o]

Random thoughts:

I am reminded of LBJ...racist to the bone, locking up the black vote.

Demographics are inescapable.

Nancy Pelosi has never given up on the "Fairness Doctrine."

[roamer_1]

For serious discussion, please (really, pretty please):

I would like to understand from the principled #NeverTrump members their post-2016 action plan to bring Conservatism back from the brink if/once Hillary is elected and implements her plan amnesty plan that grants citizenship to tens of millions of illegals.  Let's assume these new Americans will vote as other new Americans tend to do, in the 80/20 or even 90/10 ratio for Democrats.  That means for every Republican/Right voter, Hillary mints 4 or 5 Democrat voters.  These voters would sew up Florida and a couple other southern States, and even threaten Texas.

So, if this comes to pass, please outline with as much detail and reason as you can muster the path that takes us away from Venezuelan-style banana republic and back to the Reagan vision.  Please avoid magical thinking, and I will stipulate that the Second Coming might occur anytime to make this argument moot. 

Once more into the breach, @don-o ...

Another meaningless argument - There is no guarantee that the Republicans would do any differently - Especially with a NYC Yankee running the show - Remember it has been the REPUBLICANS pushing for amnesty.

[truth_seeker]

Obama=Hillary will keep Milwaukee burning. The GOP Establishment is riddled through and through with "white guilt."

Hispanics laugh at American politicians. They say one (GOP) wants to use them for punching bags, while the other (dems) want to give them stuff.

Most of them really prefer dignity, but will take the stuff.   

[don-o]

Another meaningless argument - There is no guarantee that the Republicans would do any differently - Especially with a NYC Yankee running the show - Remember it has been the REPUBLICANS pushing for amnesty.

Who has ever expected guarantees in the political realm?

It has been the Dems granting amnesty. But, I supposed Clinton's amnesty won't be all THAT bad. Right?

And her SCOTUS appointments wont be THAT bad? And her payback for cash received won't be THAT bad. Right?

I keep hearing about building something for the future. That future promises to be exponentially darker and more difficult to operate in under Obama in a pantsuit.

[roamer_1]

Who has ever expected guarantees in the political realm?

Yet you seem to see one in Trump...

It has been the Dems granting amnesty. But, I supposed Clinton's amnesty won't be all THAT bad. Right?
And her SCOTUS appointments wont be THAT bad? And her payback for cash received won't be THAT bad. Right?
I keep hearing about building something for the future. That future promises to be exponentially darker and more difficult to operate in under Obama in a pantsuit.

Your focus is all wrong - I know it will be damnably bad if there is a Clinton administration. My point is that a Trump administration will be no better. He's already at touch-back amnesty. There is likely no difference in judges - he'll appoint liberals too- Because he IS a liberal

I think one can loathe Clinton so much that one builds expectations into Trump... Cherry-picking his word salad can give one something approaching sanity...

The REAL solution lies in Castle. Perhaps if all y'all stopped beating a dead horse and helped get Castle out there, we'd actually get a win. and a real win, at that.

[dfwgator]

I am at the point where it comes down to given the choice, which candidate has the best chance of creating gridlock for the next four years.  Odds are it's Trump, since even his own party will probably fight him tooth and nail.

And all things considered, right now, Gridlock is looking pretty good.

[TomSea]

It is said, we already have an example in California, a state that voted Democrat for President only once between 1952 and 1988. Now, it is one of the deepest blue states about, not one Republican in a statewide office.

http://www.270towin.com/states/California

A number of factors contribute to this I gather.

[don-o]

Yet you seem to see one in Trump...

You know better than that.

[roamer_1]

I am at the point where it comes down to given the choice, which candidate has the best chance of creating gridlock for the next four years.  Odds are it's Trump, since even his own party will probably fight him tooth and nail.

And all things considered, right now, Gridlock is looking pretty good.

Sorry Charlie - False hope - McConnell and Ryan are still in place. Preibus is still in place. Until you pry their fingers of the levers of power, and replace them with Conservatives, you'll get exactly what you have been getting. And Trump is fine with that, or he'd have had them step down...

[roamer_1]

You know better than that.

I will reiterate that there is no way to secure the promises coming from a damned liar of the first order.
The best way to judge him is by his history - before he began shaping himself for a political run.
Do that, and he is no different than Clinton... Any distinction is without a difference.

Far, Far better to eschew the liberal candidates and lift the Conservative.

[truth_seeker]

2016 has proved to be a year of disruption.

Clinton will continue the Obama disruption, complete with white guilt, income/wealth redistribution, liberal supreme court decisions, weaker and weaker military and border security.

Trump took advantage of Republican disarray, 17 candidates no less, and pushed to the front. He alone won the disruption contest.

Now those on the political right, find him "too icky" for their delicate, refined manners.

In a disruptive environment, you don't all get to pick  some pristine, perfect soul to pushes back on the pendulum.

GOP establishment types prefer to not push back. Just settle for Hillary, instead of uniting in order to win.

So in the end, the truly "icky" ones include Romney, Jeb Bush, Kasich, Bill Kristol, Glenn Beck, etc. 

[roamer_1]

Now those on the political right, find him "too icky" for their delicate, refined manners.
In a disruptive environment, you don't all get to pick  some pristine, perfect soul to pushes back on the pendulum.

Oh, bullcrap. I'll push back HARD for Conservatism.

Not so much for NYC liberalism.
Not at all for alt-right race based nonsense.
Not a bit for a lying, asinine buffoon.
For all that, You're on your own.

[TomSea]

For serious discussion, please (really, pretty please):

I would like to understand from the principled #NeverTrump members their post-2016 action plan to bring Conservatism back from the brink if/once Hillary is elected and implements her plan amnesty plan that grants citizenship to tens of millions of illegals.  Let's assume these new Americans will vote as other new Americans tend to do, in the 80/20 or even 90/10 ratio for Democrats.  That means for every Republican/Right voter, Hillary mints 4 or 5 Democrat voters.  These voters would sew up Florida and a couple other southern States, and even threaten Texas.

So, if this comes to pass, please outline with as much detail and reason as you can muster the path that takes us away from Venezuelan-style banana republic and back to the Reagan vision.  Please avoid magical thinking, and I will stipulate that the Second Coming might occur anytime to make this argument moot. 

Once more into the breach, @don-o ...

I agree with all this, the Never-Trumpers really want the whole USA to become as blue as California;

In the end, this same kind of spiel was said about Romney, who though not perfect, I voted for; if he had won, we wouldn't be dealing with this scenario.

Clinton will decimate the USA, there is some hope with Trump, Mike Pence is a solid conservative.

Trump puts America first, law and order first, wishes to seal the border and fight terrorism. I don't know what people want in a candidate. This is not liberalism.

[mirraflake]

Most illegals are fairly conservative.  All the Hispanics I know are mostly pro life, want small gov't etc.

If we treat them like crap they will go to the dark side.

No one including Trump is going to send 15 million people back home.

The best we can do is build the wall and assimilate the ones here the best we can.

[geronl]

There is not a doubt in my mind that Trump will legalize the illegals too.

[TomSea]

African Americans are not liberal as a group.

Illegals, etc. are not liberal but I would say they are big government, big government entitlement programs are going to be voted for.

Unfortunately, the Republican party would then, have to be the party that gives out entitlements like the Democrats do.

[thackney]

It is said, we already have an example in California, a state that voted Democrat for President only once between 1952 and 1988.

Nice cherry picking of years.  They voted for democrats 5 presidential elections in a row before that time and 6 times now after that.

[TomSea]

Nice cherry picking of years.  They voted for democrats 5 presidential elections in a row before that time and 6 times now after that.

It's not cherry picking, during the Republican reign, Ike through Reagan, California almost always voted Red.

Governor Reagan became a president of the US; he's from California.

Rush Limbaugh is always saying this.

Now California is a deep blue state.

The rest of the US could end up in similar condition.

[TomSea]

California is known for its urban flight, to Colorado, Washington and Oregon and other places. There are lessons to be learned.

I"m not sure if it was legal immigration, Reagan's amnesty or what, but California has absorbed a huge population which demographically changed it.

Everyone knows that, they had conservatives like Bob Dornan, etc. in congress; now, every major office in California basically is democrat. This is all very well known stuff.

[TomSea]

In fact,  Nixon and Reagan both hailed to California, that shows you how important one state can be. We probably won't be seeing California offer up Presidential candidates soon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Nixon

[INVAR]

I would like to understand from the principled #NeverTrump members their post-2016 action plan to bring Conservatism back from the brink if/once Hillary is elected and implements her plan amnesty plan that grants citizenship to tens of millions of illegals. 

This just proves that folks who think ideological principles hinge on electing a person to high office, have everything bass ackwards.

There IS NO BRINGING CONSERVATISM BACK to a culture and population that has rejected morality and our biblical religious heritage as the foundation for a civil society.

Hillary and Trump are the FRUITS of a culture and society that have become totally corrupted and self-absorbed with hedonism and licentiousness. It explains why so many look on them as defacto dictators needed to carry out the will of their respective mobs. 

You folks are looking for political solutions to spiritual problems - and you are never going to find any remedy to what you supposedly think you seek.

[dfwgator]

African Americans are not liberal as a group.

 

Their voting patterns suggest otherwise.

[bigheadfred]

For serious discussion, please (really, pretty please):

I would like to understand from the principled #NeverTrump members their post-2016 action plan to bring Conservatism back from the brink if/once Hillary is elected and implements her plan amnesty plan that grants citizenship to tens of millions of illegals.  Let's assume these new Americans will vote as other new Americans tend to do, in the 80/20 or even 90/10 ratio for Democrats.  That means for every Republican/Right voter, Hillary mints 4 or 5 Democrat voters.  These voters would sew up Florida and a couple other southern States, and even threaten Texas.

So, if this comes to pass, please outline with as much detail and reason as you can muster the path that takes us away from Venezuelan-style banana republic and back to the Reagan vision. Please avoid magical thinking, and I will stipulate that the Second Coming might occur anytime to make this argument moot. 

Once more into the breach, @don-o ...

STOP PAYING TAXES

[Suppressed]

For serious discussion, please (really, pretty please):

Well, considering how Trump just named a pro-amnesty woman as his campaign manager, are you asking Trump supporters this?