Author Topic: How Much Does Character Matter? A Response to Wayne Grudem  (Read 3226 times)

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RAT Patrol

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How Much Does Character Matter? A Response to Wayne Grudem
« on: August 03, 2016, 01:36:22 am »

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« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 04:45:50 pm by RAT Patrol »

Offline musiclady

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Re: How Much Does Character Matter? A Response to Wayne Grudem
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2016, 01:43:02 am »
@WAC

Well, this is not brilliantly worded (other than the quotes), but I promised you a response so here it is.

Well done, @RAT Patrol!!

Your words echo the TRUTH of Scripture, and what it means to be Christian and American.

If we overlook Donald Trump's massive character flaws, and lack of integrity, we are denying our duty both as followers of Christ and responsible citizens of the United States of America.

Those who deny that character matters do so at their own peril.

I will not be one of those people.

THANK you for this!
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline musiclady

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Re: How Much Does Character Matter? A Response to Wayne Grudem
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2016, 01:52:11 am »
Thanks.  There is so much material against him and the Grudem column was so long that I had a hard time trying to find a specific direction and theme.  Oh well.  There is enough truth in there in spite of that.  I promised WAC that I would give my own reply.  I probably should have edited it for about a week before posting it.  LOL.

It's very clear.  You're a good writer, so even "unedited" it makes your point cogently.  :patriot:

(Can't help being a prof every once in a while!)
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: How Much Does Character Matter? A Response to Wayne Grudem
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2016, 01:59:58 am »

 
Ross Douthat
‏@DouthatNYT
The Trump-supporting religious conservatives are right that he's God's instrument, but they don't get that he's the Babylonians.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline massadvj

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Re: How Much Does Character Matter? A Response to Wayne Grudem
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2016, 02:03:11 am »
And what of Hillary Clinton's character?  I am definitely not a Trump supporter, but it seems to me we are devoting an inordinate amount of ink to tarnishing Trump, and not much on Her Heinous. 

Offline musiclady

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Re: How Much Does Character Matter? A Response to Wayne Grudem
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2016, 02:04:29 am »
And what of Hillary Clinton's character?  I am definitely not a Trump supporter, but it seems to me we are devoting an inordinate amount of ink to tarnishing Trump, and not much on Her Heinous.

That's because we don't have people on "our side" who ought to know better, trying to convince us to vote for corrupt Hillary.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline massadvj

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Re: How Much Does Character Matter? A Response to Wayne Grudem
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2016, 02:44:20 am »
They are both horrible.  As long as we keep submitting to the lesser or two evils theory, we will never get a decent candidate again.  We must draw the line and demand respectable candidates or withhold our support.  It may result in short term losses.  What is the alternative?  Trump?  I truly see him as a dangerous choice.  My vote is a positive statement that I think that person is fit in personal character, wisely informed and capable of doing a good job.  I do not believe that of Hillary, Trump or Johnson.

I agree.  And I am indeed withholding my support from Trump.  At least until I fully understand all of the implications of my vote, which I may not do until I am actually in the voting booth. 

Offline TomSea

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Re: How Much Does Character Matter? A Response to Wayne Grudem
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2016, 02:56:19 am »
There was a good phone call to Michael Medved today, the caller talked about Trump and Clinton of course, falling short in this category; then, on to the libertarians, the caller said he didn't agree with their views on some issues but in this category, character, they seemed to be steady.

Offline WAC

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Re: How Much Does Character Matter? A Response to Wayne Grudem
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2016, 03:41:09 am »
And what of Hillary Clinton's character?  I am definitely not a Trump supporter, but it seems to me we are devoting an inordinate amount of ink to tarnishing Trump, and not much on Her Heinous.

Thank you for saying that. ......I've truly been overwhelmed that the climate here has become so toxic against our Rep. Pres. candidate, who is the 'only one' going up against the likes of the Clintons, and playing right into the Demorats agenda and dreams to finish off any resemblance of  opposition to the Progressive agenda to transform this country into something it's not.

The Demorats have known full well Hillary cannot win this on her merit, and this with countless strikes against her on any issues she might have otherwise ran on...she can't...so the only way to win this is to completely set the GOP against itself so that it's destroyed from within while driving a stake thru while that's happening...... They know how this party is 'ALWAYS DIVIDED'....every time.  So to focus on driving that wedge wider and deeper wouldn't take much at all......

But what I did not see coming were the fools, as have shown themselves here, who would and still do justify themselves for not mounting up in this offensive to keep the Clinton/Obama machinery from wrecking not only the party but securing themselves deeply into Washington in such a way as they will never be loosened, and with them bringing the Muslim Islamic Machinery. ..and any other sick hateful group with them.

Obama has continuously stated , as have the Clintons, THEY WILL FINISH what he started.......Obama , and to my only recollection, still in office as President ,has begun the unthinkable for any other President I have known......He' is even attacking the GOP and Trump....""WHILE HE'S STILL PRESIDENT!""..let that one sink in....and the media is playing right along.

I thought higher of what I consider better minds would understand that in order to go up against the tentacles of power and mob thugary which has taken hold of Washington , you would see that ONLY a man who knows how to fight with open fists, unafraid to speak and expose, against the political thugs and their thuggery, who had no political loyalty or political position 'to loose', could make even possible  pathway thru the filth of this election, the corrupt process itself,  and without any concern he would be muddied or beat up in the process......'in order to clear the way'......and run out the cruddy filth in Washington.

Sessions got it, Newt got it, Christy got it....and others along the way and behind the scenes got it.......all three fighters in their own right.... Well I am fighter for my country  too, so is my family,  so when I saw people here on this site, rolling over and playing dead to this election I was beyond stunned....the main battle had yet to begun and you folks rolled....

Further the 'self' righteous attitudes of the so called conservatives, and others, here have shown  me clearly, thru various 'vain and self-serving reasons' that they haven't a clue about principles, or and more importantly the mighty warfare that brought them those.

The Bible is very clear there is a time for every 'event' under heaven....... a time to uproot what is planted....A time to tear down ....A time to throw stones ....A time to tear apart....  A time for war ......and I have seen the task which God has given the sons of men with which to occupy themselves.......this is not the time for fuzzy stokes on each others backs when the stakes our this high...when our religious freedoms are at the edge of being taken away via the Clintons.....when every political and elitists is garnering behind her to usher us all into the Global World Order.....

So no...I will fight with all I have to keep that from happening.....and for that have chosen to leave this site where the people care to do so. It was good for a time...that time has run out.....

Offline massadvj

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Re: How Much Does Character Matter? A Response to Wayne Grudem
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2016, 11:42:52 am »
Thank you for saying that. ......I've truly been overwhelmed that the climate here has become so toxic against our Rep. Pres. candidate, who is the 'only one' going up against the likes of the Clintons, and playing right into the Demorats agenda and dreams to finish off any resemblance of  opposition to the Progressive agenda to transform this country into something it's not.

The Demorats have known full well Hillary cannot win this on her merit, and this with countless strikes against her on any issues she might have otherwise ran on...she can't...so the only way to win this is to completely set the GOP against itself so that it's destroyed from within while driving a stake thru while that's happening...... They know how this party is 'ALWAYS DIVIDED'....every time.  So to focus on driving that wedge wider and deeper wouldn't take much at all......

But what I did not see coming were the fools, as have shown themselves here, who would and still do justify themselves for not mounting up in this offensive to keep the Clinton/Obama machinery from wrecking not only the party but securing themselves deeply into Washington in such a way as they will never be loosened, and with them bringing the Muslim Islamic Machinery. ..and any other sick hateful group with them.

Obama has continuously stated , as have the Clintons, THEY WILL FINISH what he started.......Obama , and to my only recollection, still in office as President ,has begun the unthinkable for any other President I have known......He' is even attacking the GOP and Trump....""WHILE HE'S STILL PRESIDENT!""..let that one sink in....and the media is playing right along.

I thought higher of what I consider better minds would understand that in order to go up against the tentacles of power and mob thugary which has taken hold of Washington , you would see that ONLY a man who knows how to fight with open fists, unafraid to speak and expose, against the political thugs and their thuggery, who had no political loyalty or political position 'to loose', could make even possible  pathway thru the filth of this election, the corrupt process itself,  and without any concern he would be muddied or beat up in the process......'in order to clear the way'......and run out the cruddy filth in Washington.

Sessions got it, Newt got it, Christy got it....and others along the way and behind the scenes got it.......all three fighters in their own right.... Well I am fighter for my country  too, so is my family,  so when I saw people here on this site, rolling over and playing dead to this election I was beyond stunned....the main battle had yet to begun and you folks rolled....

Further the 'self' righteous attitudes of the so called conservatives, and others, here have shown  me clearly, thru various 'vain and self-serving reasons' that they haven't a clue about principles, or and more importantly the mighty warfare that brought them those.

The Bible is very clear there is a time for every 'event' under heaven....... a time to uproot what is planted....A time to tear down ....A time to throw stones ....A time to tear apart....  A time for war ......and I have seen the task which God has given the sons of men with which to occupy themselves.......this is not the time for fuzzy stokes on each others backs when the stakes our this high...when our religious freedoms are at the edge of being taken away via the Clintons.....when every political and elitists is garnering behind her to usher us all into the Global World Order.....

So no...I will fight with all I have to keep that from happening.....and for that have chosen to leave this site where the people care to do so. It was good for a time...that time has run out.....

Personally, I think our founders gave us a better framework for dealing with tyranny than to support a new tyrant. 

I do appreciate your passion and your point of view, and I am considering it as I weigh my options.  As I have said many times on this forum and elsewhere, the only vote I am sure of at this point is that I will not vote for Hillary.  The rest is up in the air and will remain so until I am alone with my maker in the voting booth.

One thing I will not do is harm Trump's chances by trashing him unfairly, although I can't help but notice that he seems to sabotage himself plenty without my help, and that causes many to wonder whether he is not also a tool of the Clinton World Order of which you speak.