Author Topic: Why we mustn't support Donald Trump (Read 32432 times)

Silver Pines · « **Reply #50 on:** June 30, 2016, 02:29:21 pm »

Quote from: WAC on June 30, 2016, 03:34:52 am

You stated........."nor is it a question of being "never Trump", but instead NEVER LIBERAL. Trump is not now nor has he ever been a Conservative"......

Well we had a solid conservative running, he lost unfortunately...... Trump is running 'as a Republican' regardless if seen or not conservative. Trump does at times sound like a liberal Democrat to me, and when he does that he's wrong,... but I think he's deliberately promoting those views in order to advance his political interests and appeal to more of the voters on the left as well as those who sit on the fences..., which is what most politicians do in an election where they have to appeal to a wide swath of voters. For whatever reasons people see to be ore critical of Trump when he does this probably because he's tended to side with Deorats in the past......

But what I'm seeing from many 'conservatives' is it really wouldn't matter if it was Trump or some other candidate......they will only vote for a conservative, and that just isn't the choice we've been given at this juncture in the election process.....

Speaking for myself, Ted Cruz isn't the only candidate I would have voted for, although he was far and away the best, IMO. But Trump is an amoral sleaze, a pathological liar, mentally unstable, and horribly unprepared for office. I think I related to you the spiritual crisis I experienced the last time I voted out of fear, and Trump is far worse than that other candidate.

God's in control here. I won't make Hillary Clinton bigger than He is.

Trump hasn't changed, and neither has my stance regarding him.

al_c · « **Reply #51 on:** June 30, 2016, 03:56:17 pm »

#NeverTrump has further reaching ramifications that just the White House. Think about all of those that vote straight ticket. Those that do and have given in to the #NeverTrump hype will stay home … or vote independent on the presidential ballot while ignoring the rest. This is a green light for the Dems to gain back congressional seats. This, coupled with the fact that we know beyond a doubt what Hillary would do as president, we need to drop the hardline stance against Trump. Otherwise, #NeverTrump is nothing more that #RepublicansForHillary.

That’s my opinion.

sinkspur · « **Reply #52 on:** June 30, 2016, 04:02:05 pm »

Quote from: al_c on June 30, 2016, 03:56:17 pm

#NeverTrump has further reaching ramifications that just the White House. Think about all of those that vote straight ticket. Those that do and have given in to the #NeverTrump hype will stay home … or vote independent on the presidential ballot while ignoring the rest. This is a green light for the Dems to gain back congressional seats. This, coupled with the fact that we know beyond a doubt what Hillary would do as president, we need to drop the hardline stance against Trump. Otherwise, #NeverTrump is nothing more that #RepublicansForHillary.

That’s my opinion.

You can drop the hardline stance, al. I won't. Trump is dangerous, even more dangerous than Hillary. Yes, he is.

I will not vote for him, although I will vote for all Republicans down ballot. Nothing will change that.

Idaho_Cowboy · « **Reply #53 on:** June 30, 2016, 04:09:41 pm »

Quote from: al_c on June 30, 2016, 03:56:17 pm

#NeverTrump has further reaching ramifications that just the White House. Think about all of those that vote straight ticket. Those that do and have given in to the #NeverTrump hype will stay home … or vote independent on the presidential ballot while ignoring the rest. This is a green light for the Dems to gain back congressional seats. This, coupled with the fact that we know beyond a doubt what Hillary would do as president, we need to drop the hardline stance against Trump. Otherwise, #NeverTrump is nothing more that #RepublicansForHillary.

That’s my opinion.

I have never missed a major election in my life. I don't buy this stay home stuff. Down ticket votes are as important if not more so than the presidency.

With Trump attempting to jettison everyone and everything about his own party he's not going to get anybody in on his coattails.

WAC · « **Reply #54 on:** June 30, 2016, 04:20:45 pm »

...."We need to drop the hardline stance against Trump. Otherwise, #NeverTrump is nothing more that #RepublicansForHillary....
That’s my opinion."......

Agree fully.....it's a reality call soon to approach every voter who understands their civic duty as a US citizen.

Thomas Jefferson said,.....

“We do not have a government by a majority of the people, we have a government by a majority of the people who participate.”

WAC · « **Reply #55 on:** June 30, 2016, 04:32:00 pm »

Quote from: CatherineofAragon on June 30, 2016, 02:29:21 pm

Trump is an amoral sleaze, a pathological liar, mentally unstable, and horribly unprepared for office.
God's in control here. I won't make Hillary Clinton bigger than He is.
Trump hasn't changed, and neither has my stance regarding him.

Well Trump may be all that you believe him to be, and you are certainly not alone in thinking that... But he IS currently the Nominee.... and if as you say, "God is in control here", then Trump would not be where he is at since God does raise leaders up to use for HIS purposes no matter how we might view them....or for that matter how they see themselves.

INVAR · « **Reply #56 on:** June 30, 2016, 04:39:20 pm »

Quote from: WAC on June 30, 2016, 04:32:00 pm

Well Trump may be all that you believe him to be, and you are certainly not alone in thinking that... But he IS currently the Nominee.... and if as you say, "God is in control here", then Trump would not be where he is at since God does raise leaders up to use for HIS purposes no matter how we might view them....or for that matter how they see themselves.

We should NEVER compromise our faith or principles by the deceitful logic of men that would tell us that we must support someone who is antithetical to our values or condone what is evil simply because we tell ourselves 'God is in control and if He allows it, it must be okay'.

I will forever be hostile to every form and every person who is anathema to what my foundational principles are that is seeking a position of law or leadership.

Trump may be their nominee, but I will NEVER vote for him.

WAC · « **Reply #57 on:** June 30, 2016, 04:52:37 pm »

Our faith and principles reside not in men nor are they subject to....they rest steadfastly in a person.
Our support for a candidate is a civic duty with the choices we've been given....no matter who we support by our vote., and that vote does not mean we support their lifestyle, nor their manners or way of relating......it means we see the issues that come 'closest to' those we have concerns about and which candidate represents THOSE the best. ..Hillary certainly doesn't.....and though Trump leaves much to be desired he does represent the issues I do care about........so we each vote according to how we view our duty and our concerns...or not at all.

INVAR · « **Reply #58 on:** June 30, 2016, 05:22:30 pm »

Quote from: WAC on June 30, 2016, 04:52:37 pm

Our support for a candidate is a civic duty with the choices we've been given....no matter who we support by our vote.,

We have a choice to write in or vote a third party candidate that more closely represents our core principles and values.

Quote from: WAC on June 30, 2016, 04:52:37 pm

and that vote does not mean we support their lifestyle, nor their manners or way of relating

And this is where we part ways. A little leaven, leavens the entire loaf according to the Apostle Paul and according to all human history and experience. CHOOSING rulers whose lifestyles, manners and character are antithetical and contrary to mine, empowers those lifestyles, vulgarity and lack of character to become preferred and predominant.

We have Obama and Hillary PRECISELY BECAUSE most Americans wrongly assume the same thing you do: that supporting lessor evil does not mean they support evil.

What they have done is leavened the entire loaf with a yeast that is corrosive to the existence of both morality and liberty.

Apparently few notice the correlation to the loss of liberty and the abandonment of the Constitution to the wickedness this people are indifferent towards in both society and the rulers they choose.

Quote from: WAC on June 30, 2016, 04:52:37 pm

......it means we see the issues that come 'closest to' those we have concerns about and which candidate represents THOSE the best.

The graveyard of societies are filled with the corpses of former republics whose leaders grew more depraved and tyrannical as they devolved, until the people had no choice except tyrants or despots to rule them.

Quote from: WAC on June 30, 2016, 04:52:37 pm

..so we each vote according to how we view our duty and our concerns...or not at all.

Between a tyrant and a despot, I choose none of the above and will cast a vote for someone I write in or is from another party.

WAC · « **Reply #59 on:** June 30, 2016, 05:23:42 pm »

Issues that matter to me and why i will vote for Trump and not Hillary...they are the choices currently:

The first - and most important - is that of The Supreme Court. Trump’s campaign released a list of potential Supreme Court Nominees, all of which are judges 'who will uphold the constitution' without attempting to legislate from the bench.

Next the protection and sanctity of life...although Trump's position has not always been clear he seems to side with the life of the unborn now....and there are those who will indeed hold him to that. But worse is we know with certainty that Hillary will absolutely promote the deaths of many millions more children here and abroad....

And certainly Religous Liberty.......Trump clearly is for that and Hillary will assuredly continue to marginalize Christianity to the sidelines as well as the Patriotic Spirit of this nation.

These are just three that matter to me regarding my vote.....

Further I have no doubt that Trump will gladly destroy Obamas legacy...Hillary will expand and enlarge it.

So it's not really such a hard decision when one views the issues and where each stands.

WAC · « **Reply #60 on:** June 30, 2016, 05:31:21 pm »

You state....."We have a choice to write in or vote a third party candidate that more closely represents our core principles and values"....

Yes you can do that....I prefer my vote has the power to actually count and make a difference between the two candidates chosen and set aside for us to select from. ..... Especially regarding the Supreme Court Appointments who will abide by the very Constitution you speak of.

sinkspur · « **Reply #61 on:** June 30, 2016, 05:34:57 pm »

Quote from: WAC on June 30, 2016, 05:23:42 pm

Issues that matter to me and why i will vote for Trump and not Hillary...they are the choices currently:

The first - and most important - is that of The Supreme Court. Trump’s campaign released a list of potential Supreme Court Nominees, all of which are judges 'who will uphold the constitution' without attempting to legislate from the bench.

Trump said this to Mike Gallagher this morning on the Texas Abortion ruling:

“If we had—Scalia was living or Scalia was replaced by me, you wouldn't have had that.”

Trump is so inattentive to detail he is unaware that Scalia or his replacement would have made no difference.

So suppose he wins the White House and is faced with some policy consideration he really doesn't understand. What is to say he'll make the conservative move? And if he doesn't, who is going to be around him to talk him out of it?

Trump is too damned dangerous to be given the power of the presidency.

WAC · « **Reply #62 on:** June 30, 2016, 05:43:54 pm »

The list of Trumps choices for Supreme court should put those concerns at rest BECAUSE we all know he did not compile that list because he knows those individuals, it's because "others" which are able to assist him rightly know.

Trump would be a figure head President, which he may very well be more than happy to be since it puts him "On stage" and with the "Title" he covets. The working out of those issues he claims and promises to do would be in the hands of others to carry out....he has said as much himself. They would report to him of the progress no doubt and discussions thereof....but the "operatives" to carry out the agendas will be done by those who know the pitfalls of Washington.

Now if Trump decides he's going to micro-manage everyone as in a beauty pagent....then they'll be some conflicts fought until he yields. Our good men in WAshington are not going to give the man free reign.....which he will not have if he wins.

WAC · « **Reply #63 on:** June 30, 2016, 05:55:45 pm »

You say ..."Trump is too damned dangerous to be given the power of the presidency.".....

No man has absolute power of the Presidency which is why we have checks and balances......his illiteracy regarding how things work in Washington is to our advantage and those good men we do have in Washington for he will be "dependent" on them and clearly have his "trust" muscle exercised beyond that which he ever imagined... That will be difficult for Him but he'll have no choice. I have a gut feeling he'll be more than happy to do so once he grasps the enormity of running this nation and the International affairs required.

The one thing we do know...is Trump wants things to get done....however it needs to happen.....and he is very much time sensitive ...this too is in this nations interests. Further he wants solid reasons why something isn't moving in order to remove those barriers, no flimsy excuses will rule his administration. He wants doers and shakers...that we know and his history as well shows.

Idaho_Cowboy · « **Reply #64 on:** June 30, 2016, 05:58:11 pm »

@WAC "his illiteracy regarding how things work in Washington is to our advantage"
Ignorance is strength

INVAR · « **Reply #65 on:** June 30, 2016, 06:26:14 pm »

Quote from: WAC on June 30, 2016, 05:55:45 pm

No man has absolute power of the Presidency which is why we have checks and balances……

You obviously have not been paying attention for the last 4 years. There ARE NO MORE checks and balances. Obama has stacked the courts with Leftists, SCOTUS now rules based on the political agenda of the Obama regime and Congress…. well Congress was no check or balance to the lawless actions of the Executive.

So the Rule of Law is no more. We now have the rule of the tyranny of men.

Quote from: WAC on June 30, 2016, 04:52:37 pm

his illiteracy regarding how things work in Washington is to our advantage and those good men we do have in Washington for he will be "dependent" on them and clearly have his "trust" muscle exercised beyond that which he ever imagined... That will be difficult for Him but he'll have no choice. I have a gut feeling he'll be more than happy to do so once he grasps the enormity of running this nation and the International affairs required.

I've never read so many people put so many of their 'gut feelings' and 'hopes' of what they want their political savior to do for them as I have read of Trumps supporters. Not even in 2008 did I read so many blind people vaunting 'hope and change' on a single person as we read of those who ascribe their fantasies on Trump.

Quote from: WAC on June 30, 2016, 04:52:37 pm

The one thing we do know...is Trump wants things to get done....however it needs to happen…..

So a dictatorship is fine with you then?

I know it is for many who have actually gleefully suggested Trump needs to act as a dictator to 'get things done'. Which is one of the reasons I think Trump is far more dangerous than Hillary is.

I most assuredly hold Hamilton's admonition sacred.

“If we must have an enemy at the head of Government, let it be one whom we can oppose, and for whom we are not responsible, who will not involve our party in the disgrace of his foolish and bad measures.”

al_c · « **Reply #66 on:** June 30, 2016, 06:31:20 pm »

Quote from: WAC on June 30, 2016, 04:20:45 pm

...."We need to drop the hardline stance against Trump. Otherwise, #NeverTrump is nothing more that #RepublicansForHillary....
That’s my opinion."......

Agree fully.....it's a reality call soon to approach every voter who understands their civic duty as a US citizen.

Thomas Jefferson said,.....

“We do not have a government by a majority of the people, we have a government by a majority of the people who participate.”

Another thing to consider … which candidate matches the conservative platform the most? No, we don’t have any matching 100%. Probably not even 70%. But I’ll take the 50% over the 0% every time. Would have rather had Cruz so that we could have had the most conservative candidate out of the bunch that ran, but the media (and Cruz’ campaign manager) blew that. So here we are …

al_c · « **Reply #67 on:** June 30, 2016, 06:38:26 pm »

Quote from: INVAR

There ARE NO MORE checks and balances. Obama has stacked the courts with Leftists, SCOTUS now rules based on the political agenda of the Obama regime and Congress…. well Congress was no check or balance to the lawless actions of the Executive.

So the Rule of Law is no more. We now have the rule of the tyranny of men.

And with a Hillary presidency, that rule of law will slip even further away as the Supreme Court goes far left for years down the road.

Quote from: INVAR

I've never read so many people put so many of their 'gut feelings' and 'hopes' of what they want their political savior to do for them as I have read of Trumps supporters. Not even in 2008 did I read so many blind people vaunting ‘hope and change’ on a single person as we read of those who ascribe their fantasies on Trump.

Can’t argue with that. “Make America Great Again” = “Hope and Change 2.0”

Quote from: INVAR

So a dictatorship is fine with you then?

I know it is for many who have actually gleefully suggested Trump needs to act as a dictator to 'get things done'. Which is one of the reasons I think Trump is far more dangerous than Hillary is.

Hillary would be way more of a dictator than Trump would be. He’s more of a negotiator than a tyrant. That’s what worries me about him … making deals that don’t hold up to conservative standards.

Bunny Watson · « **Reply #68 on:** June 30, 2016, 06:43:56 pm »

Quote from: WAC on June 30, 2016, 05:55:45 pm

The one thing we do know...is Trump wants things to get done....however it needs to happen.....and he is very much time sensitive ...this too is in this nations interests.

What was it I read by @Henry Noel ? Better statists for better statism?

INVAR · « **Reply #69 on:** June 30, 2016, 06:54:04 pm »

Quote from: al_c on June 30, 2016, 06:38:26 pm

And with a Hillary presidency, that rule of law will slip even further away as the Supreme Court goes far left for years down the road.

It will not matter which of these two clowns gets crowned in November for that inevitability to happen. Trump has nearly single-handedly destroyed Conservatism as having any relevance on the political stage from this point forward. His supporters already rabidly working to resculpt Conservatism into Trump's image.

Quote from: al_c on June 30, 2016, 06:38:26 pm

Hillary would be way more of a dictator than Trump would be. He’s more of a negotiator than a tyrant. That’s what worries me about him … making deals that don’t hold up to conservative standards.

Trump's statements and those of his Militants make me doubt that. Trump has made more direct threats to the Constitution and our rights than Hillary has thus far.

It no longer matters who "wins" the office of president. The agenda of remaking the country is going to continue regardless.

wolfcreek · « **Reply #70 on:** June 30, 2016, 07:46:56 pm »

Quote from: al_c on June 30, 2016, 03:56:17 pm

#NeverTrump has further reaching ramifications that just the White House. Think about all of those that vote straight ticket. Those that do and have given in to the #NeverTrump hype will stay home … or vote independent on the presidential ballot while ignoring the rest. This is a green light for the Dems to gain back congressional seats. This, coupled with the fact that we know beyond a doubt what Hillary would do as president, we need to drop the hardline stance against Trump. Otherwise, #NeverTrump is nothing more that #RepublicansForHillary.

That’s my opinion.

You'll never get any of the #nevertrumps to admit that. They have a dozen reasons why they are exonerated. Mostly because they say so.

It is however, a fact that voting for anyone but Trump is voting for Hillary.

INVAR · « **Reply #71 on:** June 30, 2016, 08:45:57 pm »

Quote from: wolfcreek on June 30, 2016, 07:46:56 pm

You'll never get any of the #nevertrumps to admit that. They have a dozen reasons why they are exonerated. Mostly because they say so.

It is however, a fact that voting for anyone but Trump is voting for Hillary.

Ask us if we care anymore. Sticks and stones love. Trump will be worse for the country than Hillary could be.

You have made us your enemy, now go pander to Bernie supporters to vote for your prince - because bashing us at every turn for refusing to vote for your train wreck only grows our ranks and steels our resolve. In my case, you Trump Militants have pushed me from simply voting third party in November to outright activism against your nominee.

Stargazer · « **Reply #72 on:** June 30, 2016, 08:55:51 pm »

I supported Cruz and still do. However, I will vote for Trump as I believe things will then blow up and we can reset sooner. Also, Trump will have opposition in the government which Hillary will not. So if Trump wins and things don't blow at least the road to ruin will have been slowed.

al_c · « **Reply #73 on:** June 30, 2016, 09:12:29 pm »

Quote from: INVAR

Ask us if we care anymore. Sticks and stones love. Trump will be worse for the country than Hillary could be.

You have made us your enemy, now go pander to Bernie supporters to vote for your prince - because bashing us at every turn for refusing to vote for your train wreck only grows our ranks and steels our resolve. In my case, you Trump Militants have pushed me from simply voting third party in November to outright activism against your nominee.

The only bashing going on here seems to be coming from you. Relax … there are no Trump militants here - they’re all over at TOS. Don’t turn this site into a NeverTrump militant site, please.

GrouchoTex · « **Reply #74 on:** June 30, 2016, 09:49:46 pm »

Quote from: Stargazer on June 30, 2016, 08:55:51 pm

I supported Cruz and still do. However, I will vote for Trump as I believe things will then blow up and we can reset sooner. Also, Trump will have opposition in the government which Hillary will not. So if Trump wins and things don't blow at least the road to ruin will have been slowed.

So the pot-holes-instead-of-sinkholes-in-the-road, theory.
I think a lot of us lean that way.
I can tell you that I am a Cruz supporter AND firmly #NeverHillary.

Author Topic: Why we mustn't support Donald Trump (Read 32432 times)

Silver Pines