Author Topic: Why we mustn't support Donald Trump  (Read 32438 times)

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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Why we mustn't support Donald Trump
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2016, 06:46:17 pm »
I think his purpose was just to damage Cruz (whom the Democrats feared) to help Hillary (whom he donated to), but so many people jumped on the train he ended up being the presumptive nominee. It's all ad lib from here.

Yeah, he's probably as shocked as anybody to be where he is today.
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Offline WAC

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Re: Why we mustn't support Donald Trump
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2016, 07:21:21 pm »

I have some differences with what you wrote though certainly understand your position.....

You wrote......."We're putting our principles, faith in God for the rectitude of our actions and the Constitution ahead of "country" for once."....

Do you think the freedom of those principles will be permitted to thrive if Hillary is elected.... or that the Constitution will even survive under her administration when it is clear she has no regard for it whatsoever ?......

Additionally ....Is it not our duty before God to vote for the choices he's given us since we have a dual Citizenship and he calls us to do so as a "Citizen of this country" our civic duty? .....Especially in light of the truth that it is he who removes kings and establishes kings?


You further wrote....." Trump is no different than Hillary given his wavering unclear positions."

I disagree,.... we know exactly everything Hillary stands for and she is unwavering in her agendas both here and on the World Stage...she is bad for this  for this country, and it's peoples in every respect....killing the unborn will be massive here and throughout the world as she increases the availabilty to every nation, as just ONE example.

 ...Whereas with Trump, he has made no secret of the fact  to lead and negotiate rightly one must be flexible, thus it should not be a surprise when he does so throughout his campaign, as with ALL politicians who will lean back and forth to gain voters...  Further he has made clear he certainly isn't even close to Hillary's positions on key issues, which have been argued on these threads at length.


You further state...."More than half the population WANT a Marxist Communist Totalitarian society"....

Which I will say likely 85% or more of the population don't even know what that is....  Rather they are looking for someone who will DO the DOING OF what needs to happen to stop the trajectory this nation is on. It's that simple.... Our entire system of Governance has failed the people and they know it, which of course includes politicians on both sides, thus they want an "outsider" as has been clearly evident by the votes for Trump. That fact cannot be denied. 


 You stated...."  Our nation has been overthrown from within"

Yes indeed, so in that light why would you not vote to overthrow that "Cartel" ?   Look past the candidates and see the larger picture if that were to remain in place, which it assuredly will under Hillary and Bill Clinton.........
 Right now there are good solid conservatives set and ready for whoever our Rep. President is to carry through with many of the Conservative issues we want to see accomplished.... They will lnot have that power should the Clinton Machinery take over,... and they too are set to act, not only here but to usher this nation into the World Governance they are King Pins to be in along with other leaders chosen.


You state...."I will never vote for anyone but a vetted and provable staunch Conservative ever again"....

Cruz had a shot at this and I was fully in his court and would do so now if he were to find a way thru the mess we have before us. But  as of date we have been "given" Trump presently. ...Therefore.... I  place my faith not in the man but in the God I know regarding even Trump....,.... "A king's heart is like streams of water in the Lord's hand;.... He directs it wherever He chooses."..........Prov. 21:1


You stated....."The election is already lost.  That much is a certainty."

You do not know this my friend, nor does anyone else. There are multitudes of people praying and trusting that whatever comes of this election that the results will be as God intended....and that is the ONLY "Certainty" we can know....


You further stated....." A true patriot is standing up for the foundational principles that made us who we are without wavering or compromise."

A true patriot sees the whole picture of what it means to hold on to this Republic as our founders knew.... Our Principles are grounded in the God we serve, regardless of the political arena in play, they are unshakable because of 'who' we stand IN, not our choice of President..... And because of this we can and are "effective" as the light he has given us to shine in those dark places....So as long as there is one single Conservative fighting in the halls of Washington I will NOT abandon them to be overtaken by the Clinton Machine, rather I will vote for ANY Rep. Pres. that will secure the power they now hold.


Again you state......"  If you think a ballot determines the future, you have no business calling yourself a patriot because you have no understanding of liberty or how we even obtained it in the first place."

We have a civic responsibility to vote as best we know regardless of the degree of understanding, and let God determine where that will take us in the future.... All is not lost until he determines this is so and currently we still are "free" to vote. ..I will do so gladly as a Patriot and Citizen of this beloved country....warts and all!





 


Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: Why we mustn't support Donald Trump
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2016, 07:29:15 pm »



This is the most important point you can make, and this is the reason I cannot vote for Trump or Hillary.  Statism is statism. Since my high school civics class, I've recognized that political belief isn't a line, it's a circle with statism at one pole and freedom at the other. "Left" statist or "right" statist, it doesn't matter. Both are equally dangerous.

I agree. The fear of going From Obama to either Trump or Hillary is the Constitution gets eroded further, no matter which one is elected.

Offline Norm Lenhart

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Re: Why we mustn't support Donald Trump
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2016, 07:33:56 pm »
We're not the ones insisting that refusing to vote for your prince means we are 'traitors' and Hildabeast supporters.

Lest we forget, that one gets his talking points from FR. So you can't really expect much in the way of intelligence in his posting. Reality denial and mocking conservatives for standing on principle is what Freepers do these days and intelligence isn't in that universe.

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Re: Why we mustn't support Donald Trump
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2016, 07:55:57 pm »
You claim those are God-given choices, yet deception and lies are not of God. Both of the presumptive candidates have freely utilized those to get where they are. Judging by that, I'd say The Almighty has left an increasingly Godless nation, one which kicked Him out of the Classroom 50 years ago, to its own sanctimonious devices. He does that on occasion, as He did to Israel.

So kindly do not invoke Him to get me to vote for liars, slanderers, adulterers, or thieves.

Since The Garden, mankind has been left with one essential freedom, that to choose whether we will follow Him or our own devices. The lust for 'paybacks' on the GOP and the Liberals has led to this situation, not something God inspired, not that I pretend to speak for Him. By their fruits ye shall know them, and we see what the past of either candidate is, yet they are where they are, by some sort of popular acclaim, and both pander to the sodomites among us. We know where that got the Sodomites of old, yet we are expected to vote for that?

I honestly believe we could have done better had voters stuck to principle, and had a far better chance of success, not only at the polls, but in returning America to the greatness we desire. Unfortunately, I'm not seeing that. Neither candidate will be good for the Republic, and in good conscience, neither merits my vote.
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Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Why we mustn't support Donald Trump
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2016, 08:19:09 pm »
You claim those are God-given choices, yet deception and lies are not of God. Both of the presumptive candidates have freely utilized those to get where they are. Judging by that, I'd say The Almighty has left an increasingly Godless nation, one which kicked Him out of the Classroom 50 years ago, to its own sanctimonious devices. He does that on occasion, as He did to Israel.

So kindly do not invoke Him to get me to vote for liars, slanderers, adulterers, or thieves.

Since The Garden, mankind has been left with one essential freedom, that to choose whether we will follow Him or our own devices. The lust for 'paybacks' on the GOP and the Liberals has led to this situation, not something God inspired, not that I pretend to speak for Him. By their fruits ye shall know them, and we see what the past of either candidate is, yet they are where they are, by some sort of popular acclaim, and both pander to the sodomites among us. We know where that got the Sodomites of old, yet we are expected to vote for that?

I honestly believe we could have done better had voters stuck to principle, and had a far better chance of success, not only at the polls, but in returning America to the greatness we desire. Unfortunately, I'm not seeing that. Neither candidate will be good for the Republic, and in good conscience, neither merits my vote.
It's like trying to decide between Jeroboam and Rehoboam.
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Offline ScottinVA

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Re: Why we mustn't support Donald Trump
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2016, 08:24:22 pm »
Well said.  And IIRC, wasn't it Trump Nation who, up until just a couple months ago pounded its collective chest and informed us our vote and support weren't valued or necessary?  And wasn't that because Trump would win over enough dems to overcome whatever shortage of GOP and conservative voters?

Offline aligncare

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Re: Why we mustn't support Donald Trump
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2016, 09:07:20 pm »
I have some differences with what you wrote though certainly understand your position.....

You wrote......."We're putting our principles, faith in God for the rectitude of our actions and the Constitution ahead of "country" for once."....

Do you think the freedom of those principles will be permitted to thrive if Hillary is elected.... or that the Constitution will even survive under her administration when it is clear she has no regard for it whatsoever ?......

Additionally ....Is it not our duty before God to vote for the choices he's given us since we have a dual Citizenship and he calls us to do so as a "Citizen of this country" our civic duty? .....Especially in light of the truth that it is he who removes kings and establishes kings?


You further wrote....." Trump is no different than Hillary given his wavering unclear positions."

I disagree,.... we know exactly everything Hillary stands for and she is unwavering in her agendas both here and on the World Stage...she is bad for this  for this country, and it's peoples in every respect....killing the unborn will be massive here and throughout the world as she increases the availabilty to every nation, as just ONE example.

 ...Whereas with Trump, he has made no secret of the fact  to lead and negotiate rightly one must be flexible, thus it should not be a surprise when he does so throughout his campaign, as with ALL politicians who will lean back and forth to gain voters...  Further he has made clear he certainly isn't even close to Hillary's positions on key issues, which have been argued on these threads at length.


You further state...."More than half the population WANT a Marxist Communist Totalitarian society"....

Which I will say likely 85% or more of the population don't even know what that is....  Rather they are looking for someone who will DO the DOING OF what needs to happen to stop the trajectory this nation is on. It's that simple.... Our entire system of Governance has failed the people and they know it, which of course includes politicians on both sides, thus they want an "outsider" as has been clearly evident by the votes for Trump. That fact cannot be denied. 


 You stated...."  Our nation has been overthrown from within"

Yes indeed, so in that light why would you not vote to overthrow that "Cartel" ?   Look past the candidates and see the larger picture if that were to remain in place, which it assuredly will under Hillary and Bill Clinton.........
 Right now there are good solid conservatives set and ready for whoever our Rep. President is to carry through with many of the Conservative issues we want to see accomplished.... They will lnot have that power should the Clinton Machinery take over,... and they too are set to act, not only here but to usher this nation into the World Governance they are King Pins to be in along with other leaders chosen.


You state...."I will never vote for anyone but a vetted and provable staunch Conservative ever again"....

Cruz had a shot at this and I was fully in his court and would do so now if he were to find a way thru the mess we have before us. But  as of date we have been "given" Trump presently. ...Therefore.... I  place my faith not in the man but in the God I know regarding even Trump....,.... "A king's heart is like streams of water in the Lord's hand;.... He directs it wherever He chooses."..........Prov. 21:1


You stated....."The election is already lost.  That much is a certainty."

You do not know this my friend, nor does anyone else. There are multitudes of people praying and trusting that whatever comes of this election that the results will be as God intended....and that is the ONLY "Certainty" we can know....


You further stated....." A true patriot is standing up for the foundational principles that made us who we are without wavering or compromise."

A true patriot sees the whole picture of what it means to hold on to this Republic as our founders knew.... Our Principles are grounded in the God we serve, regardless of the political arena in play, they are unshakable because of 'who' we stand IN, not our choice of President..... And because of this we can and are "effective" as the light he has given us to shine in those dark places....So as long as there is one single Conservative fighting in the halls of Washington I will NOT abandon them to be overtaken by the Clinton Machine, rather I will vote for ANY Rep. Pres. that will secure the power they now hold.


Again you state......"  If you think a ballot determines the future, you have no business calling yourself a patriot because you have no understanding of liberty or how we even obtained it in the first place."

We have a civic responsibility to vote as best we know regardless of the degree of understanding, and let God determine where that will take us in the future.... All is not lost until he determines this is so and currently we still are "free" to vote. ..I will do so gladly as a Patriot and Citizen of this beloved country....warts and all!





Well reasoned, will fall on deaf ears. Don't you see the very core of #NeverTrump? It's raison d'être, if you will: its immovability.

From its inception, neverTrump is a political response that functions as a salve for hurt feelings, it's an emotional, spasmodic response to forces outside it's control. It is impenetrable to logic or reason.

You wasted your valuable time on a well constructed, well argued post that simply bounced off to no affect.

Offline INVAR

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Re: Why we mustn't support Donald Trump
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2016, 09:29:46 pm »
Well reasoned, will fall on deaf ears. Don't you see the very core of #NeverTrump? It's raison d'être, if you will: its immovability.

From its inception, neverTrump is a political response that functions as a salve for hurt feelings, it's an emotional, spasmodic response to forces outside it's control. It is impenetrable to logic or reason.

You wasted your valuable time on a well constructed, well argued post that simply bounced off to no affect.

Then why bother posting to us at all on this board if it is such a waste of valuable time for you and yours?

Unless acting like bullies is what truly motivates you people?

Why don't you go and vote for whatever prince you deem is going to save and preserve you - and stop telling us what we ought to do with ours?

But no, you won't do that.

Even if you claim it to be a waste of time.

Because for you - this is about punishment and revenge and mob tactics, nothing more.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Why we mustn't support Donald Trump
« Reply #34 on: June 28, 2016, 09:38:59 pm »
Well reasoned, will fall on deaf ears. Don't you see the very core of #NeverTrump? It's raison d'être, if you will: its immovability.

From its inception, neverTrump is a political response that functions as a salve for hurt feelings, it's an emotional, spasmodic response to forces outside it's control. It is impenetrable to logic or reason.

You wasted your valuable time on a well constructed, well argued post that simply bounced off to no affect.

Nonsense.  Many of us are #NeverTrump for reasons that have nothing to do with sour grapes or hurt feelings.  We worry that Trump is unstable,  unqualified, unfit, unmoored and unprincipled.  While he may be successful in business, his temper and temperament simply make him too dangerous to serve as Commander in Chief. 

AC,  I don't object to Trump because I'm unconvinced of his conservative credentials.   If that were the only issue, I'd gladly vote for him to avoid the undeniably bad policies and unalloyed liberalism championed by Hillary Clinton.   But Clinton is mentally stable in a way that Trump is not.  Trump is therefore existentially dangerous in a way that Clinton is not.   

This is a terrible choice we're faced with this year.  I've looked at this choice backwards, frontwards and sideways, and concluded that Trump would threaten my safety, my prosperity, my liberty and my nation more than Clinton will.  I therefore must vote to defeat him.   
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 09:44:07 pm by Jazzhead »
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Re: Why we mustn't support Donald Trump
« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2016, 09:57:28 pm »
"Probably, maybe less evil" is not a good enough reason to vote for anyone.

Offline INVAR

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Re: Why we mustn't support Donald Trump
« Reply #36 on: June 28, 2016, 10:28:08 pm »

Do you think the freedom of those principles will be permitted to thrive if Hillary is elected.... or that the Constitution will even survive under her administration when it is clear she has no regard for it whatsoever ?...…

It will not matter which of those two tyrant wannabe's is sElected in November.  Neither freedom or the Constitution are going to be safe from either one of them, because both of them have no regard for it whatsoever.

Additionally ....Is it not our duty before God to vote for the choices he's given us since we have a dual Citizenship and he calls us to do so as a "Citizen of this country" our civic duty? .....Especially in light of the truth that it is he who removes kings and establishes kings?

He takes responsibility for all things, even when a people turn against Him and choose for themselves wicked rulers, whom God allows to destroy those nations that have forsaken Him.  God Himself does not present them with such wicked rulers.  Instead the people choose the wickedness for themselves and God allows them to suffer for it.   It is not the duty of a Christian and follower of Scripture to choose a wicked ruler, but to choose one who represents their principles, even if they have to refrain from what is offered to them.

You further wrote....." Trump is no different than Hillary given his wavering unclear positions."

I disagree,.... we know exactly everything Hillary stands for and she is unwavering in her agendas both here and on the World Stage...she is bad for this  for this country, and it's peoples in every respect....killing the unborn will be massive here and throughout the world as she increases the availabilty to every nation, as just ONE example.

...Whereas with Trump, he has made no secret of the fact  to lead and negotiate rightly one must be flexible, thus it should not be a surprise when he does so throughout his campaign, as with ALL politicians who will lean back and forth to gain voters...  Further he has made clear he certainly isn't even close to Hillary's positions on key issues, which have been argued on these threads at length.

I do not subscribe to such fantasies.  Trump is virtually indistinguishable from Hillary on major issues as his own fruits showcase his lifelong support for abortion, Planned Parenthood AND Hillary Clinton.  Here is just ONE example of Trump's indistinguishable policies from Hillary's:

When it comes to trade, it largely doesn’t matter who the voters elect. Both the presumptive GOP presidential nominee and the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee are nearly identical...The only difference is Clinton proposed the policies first.

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,213897.0/topicseen.html


You further state...."More than half the population WANT a Marxist Communist Totalitarian society"....

Which I will say likely 85% or more of the population don't even know what that is.... 

Irrelevant.  They want free sh*te and will support anyone who says they will give them what they want, irrespective of the limits on government as outlined by the Constitution that they are wholly ignorant of and can care less about.


Rather they are looking for someone who will DO the DOING OF what needs to happen to stop the trajectory this nation is on. It's that simple.... Our entire system of Governance has failed the people and they know it, which of course includes politicians on both sides, thus they want an "outsider" as has been clearly evident by the votes for Trump. That fact cannot be denied. 

You keep illustrating my whole point about what this people want. They want a king or a dictator, just like I said.  When did we accept the idea that the Presidency was a monarchy?  That one man was going to 'do the doing of what needs to happen'?  Looking to someone for high office who will do the doing of what needs to happen sans deference to Congress or the courts betrays the very Constitution and the form of government established to uphold a republic.

All of Israel wanted a king too, and just because a plurality of people want something - does not make it right or correct.

The fact that Trump is no outsider and has a lifetime of supporting the Political castes including the Clintons and funding and endorsing a known Communist for NYC mayor less than 3 years ago means nothing to a people who have hung all their hopes and dreams on his bloating punitive rhetoric of punishment upon those people and institutions blamed for the misery they suffer and are afraid of.

You stated...."  Our nation has been overthrown from within"

Yes indeed, so in that light why would you not vote to overthrow that "Cartel" ?   

Jesus asked the question "How can Satan cast out Satan?" (Mark 3:23).  Why would I support someone who has spent a lifetime funding the cartel?


Cruz had a shot at this and I was fully in his court and would do so now if he were to find a way thru the mess we have before us. But  as of date we have been "given" Trump presently. ...Therefore.... I  place my faith not in the man but in the God I know regarding even Trump.

God did not give us Trump.  This people choose whomever it is will give them what they want.  If this people truly put their faith in God, we would have neither Trump nor Hillary as potential rulers.

You stated....."The election is already lost.  That much is a certainty."

You do not know this my friend, nor does anyone else.

I most certainly am convinced that conservatives have no horse in this race, and that the principles we Conservatives believe in, will have no role in either a Trump regime or a Hillary regime given the war both of them have waged upon Conservatives and Conservative values.


There are multitudes of people praying and trusting that whatever comes of this election that the results will be as God intended….

I do not subscribe to that understanding.  Like any Father - sometimes a wayward child has to hit bottom because of his rebelliousness.  Scripture clearly reveals that God gave entire nations and peoples over to their own desires and their own wickedness consumed them until they were utterly destroyed from it. Did God intend that for His People?  No.  But His people chose their own way, and rejected what established them and The Lord gave them over to their own appetites and desires. 

And they were destroyed and their remnant disappeared and are lost.


A true patriot sees the whole picture of what it means to hold on to this Republic as our founders knew....

That is already gone.  Without even a whimper.  This government no longer operates within the confines of a Republic as mandated by the Constitution.  You can pretend otherwise, but all it is is lip service to what precedent has already abolished except in name only.


We have a civic responsibility to vote as best we know regardless of the degree of understanding, and let God determine where that will take us in the future....

You don't vote out tyranny at the ballot box when a majority of the population want what is anathema to both God and the entire concept of a Republic.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Oceander

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Re: Why we mustn't support Donald Trump
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2016, 12:08:33 am »
Waiting for EC to come over and disparage all this talk of "must" and "mustn't."

Maybe Ralph Waldo Emerson was correct when he wrote "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines..but consistency in this case would actually be a good thing.

Foolish consistency describes Trumpkins to a tee.

Offline fungii

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Re: Why we mustn't support Donald Trump
« Reply #38 on: June 29, 2016, 09:04:54 am »
Politically speaking, I see very little difference between Hillery and Donald. They both have character and ethics issues that disqualify them. I can only describe the choice as being like choosing between Molech and Ba'al. After some study, I really like the Constitution party, here in Michigan, also called the US Taxpayers party.

Offline verga

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Re: Why we mustn't support Donald Trump
« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2016, 11:28:11 am »
Well reasoned, will fall on deaf ears. Don't you see the very core of #NeverTrump? It's raison d'être, if you will: its immovability.

From its inception, neverTrump is a political response that functions as a salve for hurt feelings, it's an emotional, spasmodic response to forces outside it's control. It is impenetrable to logic or reason.

You wasted your valuable time on a well constructed, well argued post that simply bounced off to no affect.
It is not a question of us having deaf ears nor is it a question of being "never Trump", but instead NEVER LIBERAL. Trump is not now nor has he ever been a Conservative. He will not end partial birth abortion and supports weapon bans.
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Offline austingirl

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Re: Why we mustn't support Donald Trump
« Reply #40 on: June 29, 2016, 10:31:58 pm »
@INVAR

Great piece. My personal reasons for not supporting Trump are his inconsistency, lack of a moral compass, vindictiveness, that he used vicious smears, and made infantile faces using mockery and insults that made the debates worthless, his poisonous narcissism, and his inability to speak coherently. Not sour grapes. The chaos, disarray and ineffectiveness  of his campaign since his opponents dropped out gives a picture to the discerning voter of what a Trump presidency would look like. I won't be a part of enabling that.
Principles matter. Words matter.

Offline WAC

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Re: Why we mustn't support Donald Trump
« Reply #41 on: June 30, 2016, 03:34:52 am »
 You stated........."nor is it a question of being "never Trump", but instead NEVER LIBERAL. Trump is not now nor has he ever been a Conservative"......

Well we had a solid conservative running, he lost unfortunately...... Trump is running 'as a Republican'  regardless if seen or not conservative.   Trump does at times sound like a liberal Democrat to me, and when he does that he's wrong,... but I think he's deliberately promoting those views in order to advance his political interests and appeal to more of the voters on the left as well as those who sit on the fences..., which is what most politicians do in an election where they have to appeal to a wide swath of voters. For whatever reasons people see to be ore critical of Trump when he does this probably because he's tended to side with Deorats in the past......

 But what I'm seeing from many 'conservatives' is it really wouldn't matter if it was Trump or some other candidate......they will only vote for a conservative, and that just isn't the choice we've been given at this juncture in the election process.....
 :bullie smokin:


Offline WAC

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Re: Why we mustn't support Donald Trump
« Reply #42 on: June 30, 2016, 03:44:52 am »
Politically speaking, I see very little difference between Hillery and Donald. They both have character and ethics issues that disqualify them. I can only describe the choice as being like choosing between Molech and Ba'al. After some study, I really like the Constitution party, here in Michigan, also called the US Taxpayers party.

Yes at times it does seem to be the case...'except'...Hillary and Bill have the Clinton Machinery set and ready to push hard everything and far far more that Obama has started. Further you can be sure they will stack the Supreme Court in "their" favor, not the countries. Additionally all those up for elections in Congress will swing Demorat......we'll have exported abortions to the world, massive migration and immigration of every third world nation peoples to the states, all of which will be staged to vote demorat in years to come....while Bil and Hillary usher this nation into the Global Governance and we forfeit our national laws and regulations  of this nation.


I cannot say that Trump would do likewise because all the videos of him throughout they years he's always shown his desire for this nation exclusively over any other that he shows any degree of loyalty to.

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Why we mustn't support Donald Trump
« Reply #43 on: June 30, 2016, 03:49:06 am »


 But what I'm seeing from many 'conservatives' is it really wouldn't matter if it was Trump or some other candidate......they will only vote for a conservative, and that just isn't the choice we've been given at this juncture in the election process.....
 :bullie smokin:
As long as we accept that choice, that is the only choice we will get. Lesser evils accumulate and achieve the same ends as the greater evil, only slowly enough the frog doesn't jump out of the pot.

If we think accepting that sort of option will change anything, we need to think some more.

The only reason this election is perceived as more critical than any previous election is that we have, when they prevailed, voted for lesser evils which is what got us to this point. We're running out of sand to draw lines in.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Why we mustn't support Donald Trump
« Reply #44 on: June 30, 2016, 03:52:22 am »

I cannot say that Trump would do likewise because all the videos of him throughout they years he's always shown his desire for this nation exclusively over any other that he shows any degree of loyalty to.
Hillary has to get past Congress. Not that that should be insurmountable--just look at what Obama has accomplished. (>spit<)

As for Trump, his little empire is hardly limited to the US, and even includes business deals with the Saudis (They did take his name off of some things, lately.) I have little faith his policies will be what many of his supporters believe.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline OldSaltUSN

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Re: Why we mustn't support Donald Trump
« Reply #45 on: June 30, 2016, 04:17:20 am »
Waiting for EC to come over and disparage all this talk of "must" and "mustn't."

Maybe Ralph Waldo Emerson was correct when he wrote "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines..but consistency in this case would actually be a good thing.

I get a little bit tired of hearing Trumpkin's call 95% of the rest of us here fools, within a certain rhetorical flourish, of course.
When I respond, and describe the behavior as borish or "Trollish", a moderator gets all up in arms.

Nope, consistency is NOT foolish.  It's principled.  It's truth in action.

Offline OldSaltUSN

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Re: Why we mustn't support Donald Trump
« Reply #46 on: June 30, 2016, 04:28:25 am »
Nice little screed, INVAR.   

I'm going to juxtapose this argument a bit.  Trump supporters tell us we're "Hillary supporters", we're fools, self-centered, and all that other bunk, because we won't bow at the feet of their AMAZING little Donald.

Every indication is that Hillary wins in a blow out.  Every HISTORICAL record in existence about Trump's behavior, indicates that within 6 months, maybe 3 months, Trump will be back in the loving progressive arms of Hillary's supporters. 

Now, the consistent, constitutional conservatives represented by principled #NeverTrump conservatives will be who they are today, on election day, on the day Hillary takes office, and six months from now.  We don't change.  We won't change our principles to fit the political fashion of the moment.

What about the die-hard Trumpkins?  Where will they be?  Will they be back along side of us, fighting the good constitutional fight, if indeed they were ever so?

Here's my take.  70% of the Trumpkins will follow their Donald right over the party lines, and join with him in support of the progressive agenda.  After all, having sacrificed conservative principles to vote for their idol, what will they have left.

Trump loses the election by 50 states - he won't win even one.  He'll lose the Senate and much of the House, yet he'll be partying far into the night on November 8th, with no regrets.  His Trumpkins will be partying, too.   They'll discover how much in common they have with Trump's "new" friends, and how little they have in common with us.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 04:29:05 am by OldSaltUSN »

Offline TomSea

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Re: Why we mustn't support Donald Trump
« Reply #47 on: June 30, 2016, 05:51:22 am »
We've seen the rise of ISIS and a porous border under this administration and this secretary of state. Er, no, I'm not going to stand on principle and say, I can't vote for Trump.

Now, I respect at the same time, those who think the two are equally evil though I don't agree with it.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 06:28:43 am by TomSea »

Online DB

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Re: Why we mustn't support Donald Trump
« Reply #48 on: June 30, 2016, 06:08:04 am »
Waiting for EC to come over and disparage all this talk of "must" and "mustn't."

Maybe Ralph Waldo Emerson was correct when he wrote "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines..but consistency in this case would actually be a good thing.

You mean like the consistency of always voting for what the party you belong to throws you no matter how foul? Little minds that blindly throw themselves over the cliff and demand others follow?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2016, 06:08:51 am by DB »

Offline TomSea

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Re: Why we mustn't support Donald Trump
« Reply #49 on: June 30, 2016, 06:28:09 am »
It's a hard call; if Trump seems too temperamental; perhaps the convention can still select someone else. I don't think I will be watching it.